JK Steering Box - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > JK Wrangler Technical Forum > JK Steering Box

Rockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits ZONE 4.25" combo lift for TJ available at Rockridge4wG2 Disc Brake Conversion Kit for Jeep Wrangler YJ TJ LJ Ch

Reply
Unread 03-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #1
Crasher
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WI & AZ
Posts: 606
JK Steering Box

I have a friend with a 2007 Rubicon. He has fought a death wobble for a couple years now. He has masked it over with dual stabilizers. I have looked at all the components and today found a slight sideways movement of the steering box output shaft when the steering wheel is moved back and forth. It isn't much, the seal is not leaking, but it is the only thing I can find. Toe is 1/8" in. Castor is 5*. Tires are 35" BFG ATs that are wearing even. All of the tie rod and drag link joints are tight. Tracking bar is tight. Could that slight steering shaft movement cause severe DW at 30-45 mph? If so, I have a steering box from a 2010 Unlimited Rubicon with 2000 miles on it. I think the ratio is different, but will it bolt up to 2007 2dr Rubi?

__________________
2005 LJ, 112" wb, RJ60's, ARB lockers, Fox Coil overs, 37" Mtr's, much more
97 TJ Built Juggy
Crasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 08:43 PM   #2
Remmy18
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 508
If he has had a lot of wobble then the track bar mount hole on the frame side is probably wallowed out. It's a known JK issue. Check that even if the bolt is tight. Good luck
Remmy18 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 08:47 PM   #3
RockyClymer
RedRock4Wheeler
 
RockyClymer's Avatar
2008 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,489
My first guess would be as above, even it the track bar joint appears to be tight, it might shift under load...I would check it out.
__________________
08 JK 23S - Colorado Jeep Club No. 204
Too much to list - see my profile for details on build
NRA Life member
"It takes a special kind of stupid to believe criminals will follow gun laws."
I do not consider myself a smartass. I point out the obvious, search for the truth, and speak fluent sarcasm. I am, by experience, an accomplished curmudgeon.
RockyClymer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 08:52 PM   #4
brianjw
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,364
My guess (and that's all it is) is that the death wobble created the small amount of play in the steering box.
Before replacing more stuff, look harder for the source. Ball joints are a frequent problem. Wheel bearings could also be bad. But the track bar is usually the source it seems. The bolts are undersized and threaded instead of shouldered. The factory mounting points are thin (easily ovaled) out and the track bar has soft rubber bushings on both ends. It's really a terrible setup overall. I would remove the track bar and check the mounts.
Regardless, an aftermarket track bar with more solid ends is a big help after you find the problem. Bolts should be upgraded as well. If the holes are ovaled out on the frame side, check out the synergy track bar brace. Simple, very effective, reasonable priced.
brianjw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #5
Crasher
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WI & AZ
Posts: 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy18 View Post
If he has had a lot of wobble then the track bar mount hole on the frame side is probably wallowed out. It's a known JK issue. Check that even if the bolt is tight. Good luck
I looked pretty close at that. I had movement with the one on my ZJ. When the hole gets ovaled out, the steering wheel won't always be in the same position when going straight on the road due to the different length caused bt the oval shaped hole. He said his wheel is always centered. Last year the tracking bar bracket broke off the frame. It was reinstalled and reenforced with new bolts at that time, but I will pull it apart tomorrow and check.
__________________
2005 LJ, 112" wb, RJ60's, ARB lockers, Fox Coil overs, 37" Mtr's, much more
97 TJ Built Juggy
Crasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 09:31 PM   #6
Remmy18
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher

I looked pretty close at that. I had movement with the one on my ZJ. When the hole gets ovaled out, the steering wheel won't always be in the same position when going straight on the road due to the different length caused bt the oval shaped hole. He said his wheel is always centered. Last year the tracking bar bracket broke off the frame. It was reinstalled and reenforced with new bolts at that time, but I will pull it apart tomorrow and check.
Hmmm, still stock track bar? Could be the rubber bushings are shot too? Consistent wobble could cause all kinds of issues. Personally, I haven't heard of the steering box causing wobble but that certainly doesn't mean it's not the problem. If it was me, I'd get a new solid adj track bar and new 9/16 (I think) shouldered bolts as mentioned above.
Remmy18 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #7
Remmy18
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 508
Please post back what you find when you take a closer look disconnected. Just a little ovaling can cause DW
Remmy18 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-18-2013, 10:10 PM   #8
Crasher
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WI & AZ
Posts: 606
If the bushings are the problem, would I be able to see movement at either end of the track bar if a couple of guys try to rock the body side to side?
__________________
2005 LJ, 112" wb, RJ60's, ARB lockers, Fox Coil overs, 37" Mtr's, much more
97 TJ Built Juggy
Crasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-19-2013, 05:03 AM   #9
Remmy18
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher
If the bushings are the problem, would I be able to see movement at either end of the track bar if a couple of guys try to rock the body side to side?
I'm not exactly sure but probably. If he has had a lot of wobble, ill go on a limb and say those bushings are shot. What I can tell you from experience and that it's a known issue with JKs is the stock frame side bolt is too small for the hole it's in. If it was replaced with the same size bolt, you're still going to have DW. If whoever replaced it didn't know to upgrade the hardware, I'd bet that's your problem. Get a shouldered grade 8 9/16 bolt, stick it in the frame side, tighten the sh@t outta that sucker and take for a ride. Also check very close for ovaling in any amount. I'd say if its lifted (i bet procomp kit without trackbar) with larger tires, still stock track bar, that's your problem. Start with what's common issue and work from there.
Remmy18 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-19-2013, 05:50 AM   #10
brianjw
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hillsboro, Or
Posts: 1,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher
If the bushings are the problem, would I be able to see movement at either end of the track bar if a couple of guys try to rock the body side to side?
Not likely. Sit in front of the jeep while your friend turns the wheel back and forth 1/4 turns. You'll see a huge amount of deflection in the bushings, probably bending in the bar itself. Turning the wheel might not be enough to move the track bar inside the bracket though.
Lets see a picture of the reinstalled bracket with "extra bolts".

If it doesn't look legit, here is what the synergy brace looks like. It uses the steering box bolts, and several others to reinforce. The metal is much thicker to prevent it from getting ovaled out. This and the synergy track bar made a huge difference in handling on my 6k mile jk. I'm not saying to go buy stuff if everything is just fine, but if you find problems....
brianjw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-19-2013, 06:54 AM   #11
Wavedatya
Registered User
2010 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clarington county, Ontario, Canada EH!
Posts: 1,369
I've been looking into and dealing with very similar issues.

What is involved with removing and working on front end stuff ? Is there something to be mindful of? Or is it simply removing a couple bolts and voila?

I was thinking of upgrading the whole front end.drag link, track bar, tie rod and adding stabilizer.

Sway bar will remain stock for now and ill add disconnecting sway bars eventually

So how hard is this type if work?
__________________
OF4WD member #7523. Durham 4x4 member.
Wavedatya is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-19-2013, 07:07 AM   #12
Remmy18
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavedatya
I've been looking into and dealing with very similar issues.

What is involved with removing and working on front end stuff ? Is there something to be mindful of? Or is it simply removing a couple bolts and voila?

I was thinking of upgrading the whole front end.drag link, track bar, tie rod and adding stabilizer.

Sway bar will remain stock for now and ill add disconnecting sway bars eventually

So how hard is this type if work?
Look at brianjw's setup. That's perfect IMHO and will be doing the same setup proactively with no DW and I only have 10k miles. As mentioned before, start with the common issues and go from there and No, you really don't need special tools or anything. Just a simple metric socket and wrench set and torque wrench. The work isn't hard at all. I'm no mechanic just enjoy wrenching and learning about my vehicle. Good luck
Remmy18 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-19-2013, 08:30 AM   #13
TheBoss
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: , Madiganistan, Illi-noise
Posts: 1,856
Remove the track bar and inspect the bushings and mounting holes for wear. If the Jeep has no lift and money is a concern ,stock take off track bars are easy enough to come by ,but an aftermarket would be a better choice. Replace the bolts frame and axle side with 3" x 9/16" - 18 fine thread grade 8 bolts with thick hardened washers and 9/16" grade 8 nuts (preferably a top lock type).
__________________
[CENTER][COLOR="black"][/COLOR][COLOR="Cyan"]My JK Build thread [url]http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/wanderlust-thebosss-jku-build-1483041/[/url][/COLOR][/CENTER]
[SIZE="1"]JK : AEV, Synergy, JKS, Teraflex, Bilstein, GoodYear, M.B, LoD, Ramsey, Hella, Uniden, Smitty-re-bilt rails, Safari Straps
:sold:WJ : BDS, Teraflex, JK Rubicon shocks, GoodYear, JK wheels :sold: [/SIZE]


[COLOR="Black"][CENTER][SIZE="4"][FONT="Showcard Gothic"][COLOR="Black"][URL="http://groups.jeepforum.com/built-not-bought/"][COLOR="Black"]Built Not Bought #690[/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/CENTER][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." Thomas Jefferson[/COLOR][SIZE="2"][/SIZE]
TheBoss is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-19-2013, 09:12 AM   #14
Crasher
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WI & AZ
Posts: 606
Thanks for the comments. I hope to get at it today, however my friend is also dealing with cancer and has Dr appointments today. His JK has that cheap 4" Rancho lift that has the lowered LCA brackets. I had him remove the brackets after his first trip. I didn't notice any body movement when he moved the steering back and forth, but we will start with the tracking bar when we can. It has a lowered TB bracket on the frame side that is beefed up.
__________________
2005 LJ, 112" wb, RJ60's, ARB lockers, Fox Coil overs, 37" Mtr's, much more
97 TJ Built Juggy
Crasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 03-20-2013, 01:04 PM   #15
Crasher
Registered User
1997 ZJ 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WI & AZ
Posts: 606
My friend tried different air pressures in the front 35" BFG ATs and found that anything under 30 psi produces DW, but anything over 32 psi is smooth over the same road and bumps. I still want to pull the TB off to look at it, but was surprized at his results. That size tire should be run at about 25 psi for the load it is carrying for better wear and ride.
__________________
2005 LJ, 112" wb, RJ60's, ARB lockers, Fox Coil overs, 37" Mtr's, much more
97 TJ Built Juggy
Crasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools






Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.