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Unread 11-21-2006, 08:59 AM   #16
mrgibbysworth
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This "bad taste" of diesel in the US is exactly why diesel doesn't sell here.

The truth is that modern diesels, with urea injection and particulate filters, are as clean as modern IC gas cars. Think of the advances in IC gas motors over the past 30 years (unleaded fuel, cleaner burning, more hp, more mpg, more reliability). A modern diesel has more torque and thus when properly setup is more efficient than a modern high-rev gas car.

However Cali, NY, VT, and a few other states have a "diesel ban" that currently makes modern diesels, like the MB Bluetec, only 45-state legal. Once they settle the regs regarding the urea injection, we will see more 50-state diesels.

The smelly diesel truck and bus problem is a combination of the vehicles being old and poorly maintained and the high-sulfur diesel fuel we sell. I would like to see more strict regs and/or enforcement for commercial diesels but that's unlikely. You will probably, at some point, be stuck behind a modern diesel on the trail that smells, but it will be because the owner did (or didn't) do something, or something is wrong. For what it's worth, I get stuck behind some gas cars that are smelly because they got shot valves and are burning lots of oil.

Anyway the prejudice against modern diesels is certainly not without cause, but it is mostly based on history and misconception.

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Unread 11-21-2006, 09:27 AM   #17
dell2028
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I'd love to have a deisel engine in my YJ. Sign me up for one of those. Lots of torque at the low RPMs means great wheelability.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 10:07 AM   #18
casm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBaker
(BTW, we ***** and moan and predict the apocalypse when our gas prices hit $3 a gallon, when our friends across the pond pay at least $6-$8.)
Something I'd like to mention as an aside to all of this: the reason fuel costs as much as it does in Europe is because it's taxed extremely heavily. IIRC, my parents pay somewhere in the region of EUR1.03/litre, roughly 80% of which is tax. Obviously that figure varies from country to country, but it's still taxed punitively. Fuel prices in the US also more than doubled in the space of about two years, a trend that was not matched in Europe.

Having said that, I think everyone is spot-on with the previous comments. Having driven a couple of the newer generation of diesels, all I can say is that it's a shame we haven't got them sooner, and I think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised with what's coming. It'll be hard to overcome the perceptions that most people in the US hold towards diesels, but I'm really optimistic that it'll happen.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 12:32 PM   #19
Border Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgibbysworth
The smelly diesel truck and bus problem is a combination of the vehicles being old and poorly maintained and the high-sulfur diesel fuel we sell.
Every new diesel truck that rolls off the lot is loud and smelly.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 12:36 PM   #20
4XGore
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Who worries about a jeep being loud and smelly? Oh yeah, soccer moms.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 01:21 PM   #21
Karamba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xgore
Who worries about a jeep being loud and smelly? Oh yeah, soccer moms.
No, the people who like to breathe and also those who prefer to enjoy some nature when they made it out into the mountains.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 01:24 PM   #22
Karamba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBaker
(BTW, we ***** and moan and predict the apocalypse when our gas prices hit $3 a gallon, when our friends across the pond pay at least $6-$8.)
They also get a rather good and relatively cheap public transportation system. I would not mind geeting to work on a train, or a bus, or metro, but there is no such possibility around here.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 01:37 PM   #23
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Lighten up Karamba. Don't take yourself so seriously, a diesel engine in the context that you’re referring to is not that much noisier than a gas engine. A gas burner with a nice set of headers on it is louder than a diesel engine. Refer to my first post on the subject in reference to smelly. You sound like you enjoy nature, why don't you embrace and engine that can actually help the environment? Or do you suggest an electric hybrid Jeep? That would be interesting on the trails. I understand that some people like to buy jeeps because they look cool and are convertible and I cast those into the soccer mom category no matter what gender and they tend to not like Jeeps that are loud and smelly.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 01:44 PM   #24
Karamba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xgore
That would be interesting on the trails. I understand that some people like to buy jeeps because they look cool and are convertible and I cast those into the soccer mom category no matter what gender and they tend to not like Jeeps that are loud and smelly.
I am buying a new JK-U before the next season because it can make it up some old "roads" here in Sierra Nevada. If it can be quite and efficient, that would be even better. And I like the new one for beeing much better in this regard then the TJ. Though some time ago I got rid of TJ because of size, not comforts.

AFAIK urea injection approval is stuck at the EPA level, not CARB - something about not having consumables in the emmission control system. I hope it is resolved soon.

Electric hybrid or fuel cell vehicle should be a better idea then some may think for an off-road vehicle. Maximum torque at 0 rpm and instantaneous throttle control, 2 speed gearbox. If they figure out how to make it lighter and sturdier, I will take an electric drive over a gas/diesel any time.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 02:41 PM   #25
Scooter_Trash
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I would love to have a diesel in my JK. Hopefully by the time I'm ready for another, we will have them over here.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 02:44 PM   #26
casm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamba
They also get a rather good and relatively cheap public transportation system. I would not mind geeting to work on a train, or a bus, or metro, but there is no such possibility around here.
Depends largely on where you are. If you're outside of a metropolitan area (as most populaces in Europe are), it doesn't matter how good public transport is if you can't use it. And believe me, there are plenty of major European cities with useless public transportation systems...
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Unread 11-21-2006, 02:54 PM   #27
Karamba
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Originally Posted by casm
Depends largely on where you are. If you're outside of a metropolitan area (as most populaces in Europe are), it doesn't matter how good public transport is if you can't use it. And believe me, there are plenty of major European cities with useless public transportation systems...
Oh, I do know a bit about it. Grew up there. But hardly anything compares to how bad California is in this regard - and with huge cars and people commuting for miles and miles... Oh, well.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 04:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamba
Electric hybrid or fuel cell vehicle should be a better idea then some may think for an off-road vehicle. Maximum torque at 0 rpm and instantaneous throttle control, 2 speed gearbox. If they figure out how to make it lighter and sturdier, I will take an electric drive over a gas/diesel any time.
X2. This technology would definitely benifit a Wrangler. I would certainly buy one if it wasn't too expensive and had decent power on the street.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 04:52 PM   #29
casm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karamba
Oh, I do know a bit about it. Grew up there.
Same here. Out of curiosity, whereabouts were you? I mainly grew up in Ireland, but have also lived in the UK, France, and Spain, and have been to every EU country at one time or another with a few exceptions.
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Unread 11-21-2006, 08:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Jakemd98
i must be crazy, but i like the smell
Always reminds me of my high school days in the band traveling to out of town football games. Some crazy times on those buses!
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