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Unread 05-18-2010, 10:07 PM   #31
McKBrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightingmajor View Post
So why is the ESP engaging? Because of the tires or the lift? Why is that even effecting it anyway? I'm going to be lifting my Jeep 3 1/2" and putting on 35's. is this something that I need to do?
When you lift, you shift the axle which affects the steering. On shorter lifts you can get away with just recentering the draglink after lifting. For your size lift, I would consider an adjustable front trackbar.

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Unread 05-18-2010, 10:09 PM   #32
Charles
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When you put a lift on you change the geometry of all of the components. The trackbar and the draglink become shorter. So your axle will shift, to compensate you will need an adjustable trackbar. The draglink becomes shorter but is adjustable already. Just loosen two bolts and spin what is essentially a big nut between two bolts. Have a friend inside to tell you when the steering wheel is straight.

His brakes are coming on because his steering wheel is not straight. The reason is; if the steering wheel is off 5 degrees to the right and you take a corner that requires you to turn the wheel 10 degrees to the right, you are turning the wheel 15 degrees. Now the Jeep uses a sensor on the steering wheel to determine how far the wheel is turned, and another sensor (accelerometer) to determine how much the Jeep is actually turning. If they are not equal it assumes your are sliding and turns on the breaks to correct your vector. i.e. you turned the wheel 15 degrees (the sum of the 5 degree error and 10 degree the driver input) but the change in direction did not equal what a 15 degree steering wheel input should have.
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Unread 05-18-2010, 11:00 PM   #33
bmf2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudah View Post
whee.. Okay there is a difference between turning off the ESP by holding the button and permanently disabling the ESP which is what the OP was trying to do. ESP turns itself off when in 4 low. In 2wd you can not turn it completely off. In 4 hi you can hold the button down for 5 seconds and turn it completely off.

you mileage may vary between years. There are known issues with trying to permanently disable the ESP after a lift is installed.
You are correct and I believe you hit the nail on the head!

What I found while researching this is that you can not permanently turn the ESP off in 2wd which is what I want to do. However, I do believe that because my steering wheel is not true center it is causing the ESP to engage when it shouldn't. Not sure how much I need to adjust the drag link but to eyeball the Jeep emblem on the steering wheel it doesn't seem like a whole lot. I see me doing a lot of adjusting and test driving in the near future.

If that doesn't work I guess it's back to finding a dealer that will disable it for me or getting a Superchip. If that guy was telling me the truth that the Superchip will disable the ESP.
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Unread 05-19-2010, 08:12 AM   #34
N2rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe002 View Post
Have you ever used that brand before and have good results? I've seen pads advertised like that too, and if the warrantee actually covers normal wear (i.e. if they wear out for any reason they’ll replace them for free), I wonder if they’re made so they actually wear out the rotors to protect the pads - don’t know though?
Well. The stock thickness of the rotor is so close to the minimum, that in all likelihood you would not be able to have it turned after the 2nd set of pads regardless.

But all the pads Auto Zone sells (from the cheapest to the most expensive) come with the lifetime free replacement warranty. The warranty comes with no stipulations- if they wear out, you return the pads and get new replacements for free. You don't even need to keep the receipt as Auto Zone keeps the purchase info in their computer. All you have to do is return the worn pads.

Funny- All the big name brake shops (Brake Check, Just Brakes, etc...) all make you pay like $60 extra for the free replacement warranty. That is such a complete rip off. For one- they know that the pads will likely outlast the car ownership. The warranty does not transfer- so if you sell the car before the pads wear out, they just made $60 for doing nothing. Secondly- the price they charge for the warranty is more than the price of pads. So even if you do end up claiming new pads, it has not cost them anything.
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If you made a snuggy out of a Shamwow, ....would you have to get up off the couch to pee?
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At this point if Obama tried to move a little to the right, he would trip over Stalin's corpse.
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Unread 05-19-2010, 08:14 AM   #35
N2rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmf2001 View Post
What I found while researching this is that you can not permanently turn the ESP off in 2wd which is what I want to do. However, I do believe that because my steering wheel is not true center it is causing the ESP to engage when it shouldn't. Not sure how much I need to adjust the drag link but to eyeball the Jeep emblem on the steering wheel it doesn't seem like a whole lot. I see me doing a lot of adjusting and test driving in the near future.

:
It really is simple. I just had my wife sit in the driver seat and tell me when the logo was straight. It took one shot, and never had an issue again
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His: '07 Unlimited X, Jeep Green, Hardtop, auto, 5.13, 2.5" RC lift and too many mods to list

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Quote:
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If you made a snuggy out of a Shamwow, ....would you have to get up off the couch to pee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepskyy View Post
At this point if Obama tried to move a little to the right, he would trip over Stalin's corpse.
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Unread 05-19-2010, 08:43 AM   #36
McKBrew
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You should already have an idea of how much it needs to be adjusted. If you are driving straight and the steering wheel is noticeably off, you'll know. Each JK might be different, but mine was a fair amount off and the ESP light never came on.

It only takes a very small movement of the draglink to move the wheel 1/4" or so. It really is an easy process, and while two people make it a bit quicker, one will work just fine.

If your steering wheel is straight and you still get the ESP light, you have another problem.
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Unread 05-19-2010, 08:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2rock View Post
...But all the pads Auto Zone sells (from the cheapest to the most expensive) come with the lifetime free replacement warranty. The warranty comes with no stipulations- if they wear out, you return the pads and get new replacements for free. You don't even need to keep the receipt as Auto Zone keeps the purchase info in their computer. All you have to do is return the worn pads...
I've used their warrantee on a battery or two and an alternator that broke when I was on vacation and out of state and had no hassles with the return (like you said the purchase was in their computer). I never tried it with a part that is made to wear, and haven't used any of their parts on my Jeep (I would honestly have to tell them I drive my Jeep off-road, so that could be a problem). Thanks for the info, but yeah, in any case I’m not taking it to a Brake Shop!
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Unread 05-19-2010, 09:23 PM   #38
skyjump136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudah View Post
here is that problem that we have discovered... per Star (Chrysler tech support line) you have to disable the ESP........ before you install the lift. :
Huh? Your Jeep doesn't know if its lifted...and maybe I just don't know if you're joking.

BTW, someone mentioned that Superchips can turn off ESP - it can NOT.
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Unread 05-20-2010, 09:30 AM   #39
kudah
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you have a stock suspension Jeep, everything is fine. You lift it, you experience ESP errors, likely because the steering wheel is not centered or some other part of the geometry in the front end is off. (most recent one we dealt with, either the 'C' or the front axle tube is bent, unable to align completely) So to get rid of the ESP kicking in you decide to follow the procedure to disable the ESP permently as outlined above. You are unable to get the disable to work because there is something wrong in the alignment. Since the procedure involves centering the steering wheel / turning the steering wheel a half turn / centering the steering wheel / turning a half turn in the other direction. these actions are not seen as being done correctly and the ESP does not disable.

So no the Jeep does not know it is lifted, the Jeep just doesn't see the procedure to disable ESP being done correctly... Chrysler says.. perform the procedure before you install the lift if you want the ESP disabled permanently, after the lift is installed if the ESP will not disable following the procedure, do not try to fix it by making repairs/replacing parts.
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Unread 05-20-2010, 09:37 AM   #40
McKBrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudah View Post
So no the Jeep does not know it is lifted, the Jeep just doesn't see the procedure to disable ESP being done correctly... Chrysler says.. perform the procedure before you install the lift if you want the ESP disabled permanently, after the lift is installed if the ESP will not disable following the procedure, do not try to fix it by making repairs/replacing parts.
I see what you are trying to say.

I still think (just an opinion) that it is a BAD idea to disable the ESP period. It's a safety feature, built in for a reason, and if you do everything right it should never activate unless it's supposed to.

We could discuss whether ESP is needed, whether it is traditional, etc... but in the end I personally like having it and think most would agree. If you are disabling the ESP to get rid of a light you are only masking the problem, not fixing it.
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Unread 05-20-2010, 10:20 AM   #41
kudah
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Originally Posted by McKBrew View Post
I see what you are trying to say.

I still think (just an opinion) that it is a BAD idea to disable the ESP period. It's a safety feature, built in for a reason, and if you do everything right it should never activate unless it's supposed to.
I agree with you. If the ESP is kicking in when it should not, I would want to find the reason it was not working correctly and fix that rather than disable the ESP permanently.

I am only sharing the information I have on why the procedure to permanently disable the ESP is not working for those that are trying to use it.
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Unread 05-20-2010, 11:21 AM   #42
DBA2GO
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I have to agree with these other recommendations to fix the problem & not just disable the ESP.
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Unread 05-20-2010, 12:03 PM   #43
fightingmajor
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So just because I'm going to lift my jeep I don't have to disable the ESP right? Sorry just trying to learn here.
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Unread 05-20-2010, 12:05 PM   #44
McKBrew
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Originally Posted by fightingmajor View Post
So just because I'm going to lift my jeep I don't have to disable the ESP right? Sorry just trying to learn here.
No you should absolutely NOT have to disable your ESP because you are putting on a lift.

The biggest issue is that by lifting you will have to re-adjust your steering via the draglink or you may have ESP issues.
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Unread 05-22-2010, 09:59 PM   #45
bmf2001
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Just wanted to update and thank everyone again!

I changed my rear brakes and it was as easy as you said it was. Makes me sick to think of all the money I spent in the past to have someone else do it. I ended up getting the ceramic pads from Auto Zone and they said as long as they're not metal on metal I can bring them back for free lifetime replacement.

I also adjusted the drag link and that was as easy as it gets. It didn't take much, less than a half turn, and I'm all lined up now. I have yet to take the turns that have been making my ESP turn on to see if it changed anything though.
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