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Unread 07-02-2013, 08:13 PM   #1
MRGeep
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Fuse repeatedly blowing

So I'm worried I have a short somewhere that's causing my M13 fuse to continue to blow up. I have yet to be able to track down anything helpful and I keep blowing up fuses trying to figure out the problem.

This all started 2 days ago, I had her detailed on Saturday, then Sunday when I'm out around town the NoFuse indicator pops up after a visit to Home Depot. Starts fine, everything runs fine, but the clock reset, the wipers have to take a a swipe across the window, and the key fob no longer works (but the alarm will go off if the doors are locked by the power locks and I unlock the door with a key).

So I check the fuse box and M13 is blown, I tried to replace it to see what was going on and it blew up as soon as it touched the fuse box. So tonight I started digging a little deeper. I unhooked the battery, replaced the fuse, and reconnected the battery. Fuse blows up instantly. Trying to see if there are any obvious issues, I was able to find a fairly heavy gauge (guessing 10g) yellow wire coming out of a black box just to the drivers side of the engine and going into the wire loom on the firewall. There was a splice in this yellow wire that I'm assuming was put in by the previous owner and it appears that they basically spliced in a piece of wire (blue insulation, so I'm assuming it's not original) without actually putting in any type of connector and just wrapped it all up with electrical tape. The tape was basically melted away. So I removed the hack job, tried to replace the fuse again to see if it would still blow and, of course, the fuse is fracked again.

So now I'm not quite sure where to go with it, but of course (again) I've got me a nice vacation planned for Saturday and I need my baby running smooth for the next 10 days. I'm lost as to what I should do to try to track down the problem (finding a short in the mile of wiring) or if I should just cut my losses and get her to a mechanic. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm not used to the electrical system on these, the rats nest on my old 89 YJ was a whole lot easier to work with for me...

Thanks!
Matt

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Unread 07-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #2
MRGeep
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I forgot to add that the only mod to the electrical system was an LED light setup on the front bumper about 3 weeks ago. No issues with the install, I used a harness supplied by the company I bought it from, it does not go through the fuse box currently and does not tap into any of the existing wiring. It has a relay mounted to the passenger side fender adjacent to the fuse box and is ground to a bolt with an existing ground on the fender. I tried disconnecting the entire system and it did not affect the fuse blowing up. Not sure if that means it's not involved or a potential culprit.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #3
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I would get a voltmeter and see what is going on across that fuse. Not sure what M13 powers but if it should not have power with the ignition off something is obviously wrong. You will just have to start tracing wires and see whats up unfortunately.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 09:10 PM   #4
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There's obviously a short in the circuit. Hopefully someone with a set if wiring prints will chime in to get you checking in the right direction.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #5
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M13 is fed from J13, (the IOD fuse in the white holder), which is hot any time the battery is connected.

M13 feeds a wire from the TIPM to a splice, where it splits to the Cluster, the Wireless Control Module, and the left Multifunction Lever on the steering column. It leaves the TIPM through connector C6, pin 5.
All of the wires from M13 to the items listed are red.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #6
Rtone1583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGeep View Post
Trying to see if there are any obvious issues, I was able to find a fairly heavy gauge (guessing 10g) yellow wire coming out of a black box just to the drivers side of the engine and going into the wire loom on the firewall. There was a splice in this yellow wire that I'm assuming was put in by the previous owner and it appears that they basically spliced in a piece of wire (blue insulation, so I'm assuming it's not original) without actually putting in any type of connector and just wrapped it all up with electrical tape. The tape was basically melted away. So I removed the hack job, tried to replace the fuse again to see if it would still blow and, of course, the fuse is fracked again.
I would follow that wire first. It could be shorting out as it passes through the firewall or anywhere along its path.

As to the tape being melted away, that is a pretty good indicator that that wire (or something in its circuit) is the one with the short. Normal temps under the hood aren't hot enough to melt E-tape. The other possibility (long shot) is that the hack job is actually a fusible link that didn't burn all the way through.

If the mystery wire doesn't prove to be the problem you'll have to start back checking from each of the controlled modules (I have no idea where any of them, except the multifunction switch [the multifunction switch is generaly the turn signal/wiper control] are located though).

Also, keep in mind that there may be short, that you can't see, in one of the modules.


M13
20 Amp Yellow
Ignition Off Draw— Cabin Compartment Node (IOD-CCN), Wireless Control Module (WCM), SIREN, Clock Module (CLK MOD), Multi-Function Control Switch (MULTIFCTN SW)

Did you buy the Jeep new or used? Does the black box look factory or aftermarket?
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Unread 07-02-2013, 10:09 PM   #7
MRGeep
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Quote:
M13 feeds a wire from the TIPM to a splice, where it splits to the Cluster, the Wireless Control Module, and the left Multifunction Lever on the steering column. It leaves the TIPM through connector C6, pin 5.
All of the wires from M13 to the items listed are red.
Do you know if the splice where it splits is within the engine compartment or within the cabin?

Quote:
Did you buy the Jeep new or used? Does the black box look factory or aftermarket?
The Jeep was used, 2008, which I purchased in June 2012. The black box looks factory, it has a lot of wires running through it with a gray handle/lock that separates the two sections. The yellow wire in it is the largest gauge in the bunch as far as I can tell. I haven't traced it through the wire loom yet as I was hesitant to open it all up if that's not where my problem could be.

Quote:
Ignition Off Draw— Cabin Compartment Node (IOD-CCN), Wireless Control Module (WCM), SIREN, Clock Module (CLK MOD), Multi-Function Control Switch (MULTIFCTN SW)
Is there any way for me to see what is currently functioning with each of these systems to see which may be involved? As far as I can tell once the Jeep has been started everything works fine except the dome light (which I need to double check) and key fob. The radio always resets the time, but it does function. All the lights work, including the fog lights. Not sure what else all these components do and I'm having some difficulty tracking down what they are all responsible for.

Thanks for all the help so far!
Matt
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Unread 07-02-2013, 10:34 PM   #8
MRGeep
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Oh and the yellow wire, yeah that's 12g not 10g as I originally stated. It also has a silver stripe on it.
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Unread 07-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #9
ronjenx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGeep View Post
Do you know if the splice where it splits is within the engine compartment or within the cabin?


Thanks for all the help so far!
Matt
My best guess, based on a drawing in the factory service manual, Splice 244 is located as indicated in the picture below.

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Unread 07-03-2013, 06:30 AM   #10
Rtone1583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGeep View Post
Is there any way for me to see what is currently functioning with each of these systems to see which may be involved? As far as I can tell once the Jeep has been started everything works fine except the dome light (which I need to double check) and key fob. The radio always resets the time, but it does function. All the lights work, including the fog lights. Not sure what else all these components do and I'm having some difficulty tracking down what they are all responsible for.

Thanks for all the help so far!
Matt
The only way I know to check each of the systems is to find and disconnect all of them. Put a new fuse back in M13 and plug them in one by one to see which one, if any, blows the fuse.

One other thing you can check this way is if the problem is in fact in the wire harness. If the fuse still blows with all modules disconnected the problem will be in the harness. Unfortunately this won't narrow down where in the harness the short is.

Another simple thing to check is to just look at the chassis and body harness' at any point that they may come in contact with metal. Harness' don't always follow the shortest or most logical path so you might find a problem in a location you wouldn't otherwise suspect.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 07:43 AM   #11
MRGeep
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So, update to the saga. Jeep was broken into last night, without the key fob working I haven't been using the power locks since it always sets the alarm off when I unlock the door again, so I must have left a door open and the would-be thief rifled through my center console and, as far as I can tell, took nothing. All of the tools in the trunk and sitting ON the passenger seat, which is the door they came in through, were left behind untouched. Apparently the criminals in my neighborhood have no idea of the value of tools and are probably of a fairly low intelligence level... I wouldn't mind if they made a repeat appearance tonight

Anyway, I've attached some pictures of the black box I was referring to and the yellow/silver stripe wire that was fried. The wire seats into the round plug right in the middle of the mass of wires. Not sure if this helps or not, but hopefully you can now tell what I was referring to. Anybody have any idea where this wire heads? I have the iso file of the 2007 manual but haven't had a chance to burn it to a CD and search it out myself yet.

Thanks again.
photo-2-1-.jpg

photo-1-1-.jpg

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Unread 07-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #12
Rtone1583
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I did find this picture:



On this forum: http://www.jk-forum.com/stock-jk-tec...s-what-196499/ Unfortunately they never identified the part (#14) that you need.

I posted a question here: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/can...ml#post3923943

and here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/c.../#post15636446

to see if anybody can identify it so you can at least start tracing the problem with the correct diagram, hopefully.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 08:08 PM   #13
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If it's yel/gry and goes through the lever lock connector on the firewall it's most likely the starter solenoid wire.

It goes from the starter to the TIPM connector 2 pin 8.
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Unread 07-03-2013, 08:53 PM   #14
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So after doing another inspection of all the wiring I found another hack job done by the previous owner (hereby referred to as POS). There's a connection at the back end of the coil where he had removed some insulation from one of the wires and spliced in another wire, which had been removed but part of the wire was still attached and there was a loose wrap of electrical tape covering it. So I cut it out and fixed it... again.

I went through as much of the wiring as I could reach in both the engine compartment and the cabin, I pulled the wire loom off the firewall and did a visual inspection of as much as I could. I can't say what ended up working but I replaced the fuse and things worked fine again. I'm definitely still concerned that there is a short somewhere and I'll I've done is temporarily displace it, but time will tell.

Now if only I knew everything else the POS mangled. Anyway, hope everybody has a happy 4th and I appreciate all the help.

Thanks,
Matt
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Unread 07-03-2013, 08:59 PM   #15
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That's good news. Keep us informed if it crops up again.
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