Filling JK tires with air? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

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post #16 of 29 Old 09-10-2013, 07:18 PM
Intarsiabox
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Originally Posted by mello View Post
Nitrogen filled tires on the vehicle where you my air down is definitely a waste. On Regular automobiles however where you will not be airing down nitrogen is a great thing specially for vehicles with TPMS. The nitrogen keeps you from having cold-weather low tire lights.
That's the claim but I have yet to see it prove true. I have three vehicles with nitrogen filled tires and every winter the TPMS goes off on all the vehicles. Anyone I've ever talked to about it also have the same experience. On a side note if you get your tires from Costco they'll top off the tires with nitrogen for free.

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post #17 of 29 Old 09-10-2013, 07:37 PM
mello
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It does hold true I work on a fleet of about 220 vehicles. The only ones with TPMS that do not have lights on in the cold mornings are the ones that have nitrogen fill. Some of our new vehicles come with nitrogen and some come with air. Not all the air filled tires will have lights on in the morning but most. However none of the nitrogen filled ones will. I worked for ford for ten years and when TPMS came out that was a big warranty complaint on cold mornings the tire light being on till tire warmed up. When nitrogen came out those complaints almost went to the wayside. I do run air in my vehicles because I keep an eye on them like everyone should. The masses do not check their tire pressure at all. I am not saying it is a necessity by no means but it is not snake oil and does work.
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post #18 of 29 Old 09-10-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intarsiabox View Post
That's the claim but I have yet to see it prove true. I have three vehicles with nitrogen filled tires and every winter the TPMS goes off on all the vehicles. Anyone I've ever talked to about it also have the same experience. On a side note if you get your tires from Costco they'll top off the tires with nitrogen for free.
Your experience confirms that Nitrogen expands and contracts with temperature changes, too. In the world of automobiles, its rate of change is only slightly different from regular air with its normal moisture content.
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post #19 of 29 Old 09-10-2013, 08:00 PM
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[QUOTE=Jiblet;15891816]Nitrogen in automobile or truck tires is a scam.

Think of an aircraft tire suddenly contacting the ground. The sudden heating of the gas in the tire causes an increase in pressure but not nearly as much as the expansion of even a small amount of condensation (liquid water). The presence of even a minute amount of liquid water can result in catastrophic blow outs.

Liquid water?....

Sorry, I had to say it.

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post #20 of 29 Old 09-11-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Reluctant View Post

Liquid water?....

Sorry, I had to say it.
I know, I know, ...but ice and steam or vapor are still water, right?

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post #21 of 29 Old 09-11-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ronjenx View Post
Your experience confirms that Nitrogen expands and contracts with temperature changes, too. In the world of automobiles, its rate of change is only slightly different from regular air with its normal moisture content.
Exactly. The gases behave as Ideal gases. (except for the moisture)

And the range of pressures for autos is roughly 20-60 psi, roughly 2-4 atm., while the pressure in an airliner's tire is something like 200psi, well over 10 atm.

It's at those higher pressures that individual pure gasses start to deviate from Ideal behavior, regardless of the dryness of the system.

At automobile tire pressures, you would get the exact same results using dry nitrogen, dry air, dry hydrogen (no Hindenburg jokes!), dry oxygen.

How much effort is being made to dry the gas? What grade of gas are they purchasing? etc. etc.
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post #22 of 29 Old 09-11-2013, 12:50 PM
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Dry ice works for me. Actually compressed (liquid) CO2 not solid phase.

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post #23 of 29 Old 09-11-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SubAtomicGenius View Post
You get 76% nitrogen for free in your tires when you use air. You're paying a premium for the other 23-24%. That's even if you are actually getting nitrogen and not just the green caps. No benefit to the average driver whatsoever. Gimmick.
regular air has 21% 02, which leaks out quite easily, so technically if you keep refilling the tires as "air" leaks out, eventually you'll be NEARLY 100% nitrogen.
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post #24 of 29 Old 09-12-2013, 07:34 PM
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I suppose you could try using helium for added lift

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post #25 of 29 Old 09-12-2013, 07:42 PM
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Vacuum filled tires :O whaddup

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post #26 of 29 Old 09-12-2013, 09:29 PM
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CO2 is the only way to go. Ever look closely at a beer or soda? The bubbles go up. In a tire they will go up then as the wheel rotates they travel down and around building a minute bubble barrier in the tire which is almost as strong as kevlar armor.
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post #27 of 29 Old 09-13-2013, 09:09 AM
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Nitrogen has a small place in road car tires. A very low profile tire changes foot print with a mere 1 psi change. Air will yield a 3-5 PSI change at 140 degree operating temp while N will yield less than 1. But how performance does a road car need to be? My GTO has less than 2" of sidewall - it does tend to eat the edges of the tread if not driven hard enough to give all the body roll it can make.

If you ARE getting strange wear on the very low profile tire simply get the correct footprint HOT, allow them cool and check PSI cold. That becomes you new cold PSI. And then simply maintain a habit of checking weekly (or monthly) to maintain cold PSI at ambient seasonal temp.

Nitro in a passenger car tire is so the little old lady who NEVER checks her tires doesn't get panicked by a "low tire" warning in the fall when ambient is 20 degrees lower than summer so her tires loose 5 psi cold!

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post #28 of 29 Old 09-13-2013, 09:38 AM
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One-two psi in several newer vehicles can mean the difference between a rough ride in the morning or a good ride.
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post #29 of 29 Old 09-13-2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop
Nitrogen has a small place in road car tires. A very low profile tire changes foot print with a mere 1 psi change. Air will yield a 3-5 PSI change at 140 degree operating temp while N will yield less than 1. But how performance does a road car need to be? My GTO has less than 2" of sidewall - it does tend to eat the edges of the tread if not driven hard enough to give all the body roll it can make.

If you ARE getting strange wear on the very low profile tire simply get the correct footprint HOT, allow them cool and check PSI cold. That becomes you new cold PSI. And then simply maintain a habit of checking weekly (or monthly) to maintain cold PSI at ambient seasonal temp.

Nitro in a passenger car tire is so the little old lady who NEVER checks her tires doesn't get panicked by a "low tire" warning in the fall when ambient is 20 degrees lower than summer so her tires loose 5 psi cold!
That's what I was getting at. A very low profile tire does have some benefit. On a colder and wetter day, psi does drop a bit. A small amount makes a difference. And an under inflated low profile tire sucks in the rain, the tread can concave and water collects in the center of the tread, and you hydroplane more easily.

However I've still never paid for nitrogen in the low profile tires we've had on some of my wife's cars.
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