Engine codes thrown, high air flow, RIPP SC the problem?
Had some changes the last 6 weeks. Came across my dream Jeep, so I bought it, sold the TJ on the first day, have been a proud JKU owner for a month until yesterday.
The Jeep: 2008 JKU, Automatic, 89000 miles on 3.8L V6, RIPP Gen 1 to 2 Stage II Supercharger, BBK long tube headers and high flow cats, 5.13 gears (no lockers), 37" tires, 6" Teralflex LA lift, and more little unimportant details.
The Problem: Had the Jeep for 6 weeks (roughly 1,200 miles I've put on it). Has ran great without a hiccup... Until this last weekend. I'm sitting at a light, after driving for 30 miles, when all of a sudden the Jeep beeps, surges forward, and RPM's go up to 1100 rpm. I have three new lights, a check engine light, the throttle position light, and traction control light. I take it home, throw the predator/diablo scanner on it, and I see two codes:
P2173 (Throttle Actuator Control System, high air flow)
P0507 (Idle air control system, rpm higher than expected)
I go online to all the Jeep forums, do hours of research, went out checked for vacuum leaks (found none), checked the metal EGR tube (no cracks), checked the EVAP canister (no issues found, all gaskets accounted for), clean the throttle body (was a little dirty but not horrible). I fire the engine, have a funny intermittent idle then smoothes out, then just dies without warning. I fire it back up with no problems and see "GASCAP" on the dash. I checked it and it was loose, I tried to reset it and it came out rather easy again. Went to the store bought a new one, replaced, reset the codes, fire up the engine, and same issues and same engine codes came up. Retightened the boost tubes hose connectors, did a throttle position reset (hold gas pedal to floor, turn key on and wait 20 seconds). Fired it up, ran and idle great. Drove it for ten minutes with great results and no codes, got excited thinking I fixed it (bc it drove great with lots of power!) when all of a sudden I'm sitting at another light when I get the exact same issue as I did at the one light (surges forward, lights come on, and rpms are higher)... take it home with my head low, check the codes, same codes as above.
So that's where I'm at and lost. I've read that PCV valves have cured similar issues, but I can't receive word from RIPP if the PCV valves are RIPP specific or just a plain old Jeep JK stock PCV valve. I also heard that MAP sensors have caused this issue. I've also read that new EVAP canisters have cured this issue.
Can anyone give me some insight or direction? I don't mind replacing the PCV valves bc they are relatively inexpensive, but I can't find out if they're stock or RIPP specific. I don't mind buying a new EVAP either since they're $50. I would just like some words of wisdom before I start replacing parts. This is my first time having a car payment, and at this point I'm half tempted to fix it and sell it to buy a truck. I'm pretty disappointed having this bug already when my 98 Jeep has been running stellar for 15 years. And before I get ripped a new one, I know and understand the risks of buying used cars. I talked to the guy last night and he said he had a similar issue when he left the gas cap loose when the throttle reset did the trick and never gave him a problem again.
Sorry for the novel, kind of at a stand still without hearing from RIPP about the PCV valves. I make my first payment tomorrow and this is not what I wanted before my first payment.
For what it's worth, I have the scanner which can read engine management numbers, I'm just not sure what numbers to look at.
Take a look at the throttle position sensor (TPS) at idle (should show as a % but could also show as a voltage reading) although I can't help you out on what the correct reading should be. Here is a link to another Mopar product forum and the OP had pretty much the exact same problem as you are having.
The P0507 code is tied directly to the 2173 code so it should clear as soon as the original problem is fixed. According to this site, http://www.obd-codes.com/p0507 , it is set by a fault in any of the areas you already checked as well as the throttle body/TPS which the guy in the first site found to be his problem.
The traction control light should go off as soon as the original problem is fixed and I would be willing to bet that your cruise control is not working either. Readings from the fuel/air management system play a part in the operation of the TC/cruise control system.
Also, I've got pretty much the same setup as you (09 with Ripp Gen1). I installed the SC back in November of 09 and have never had the problems you have listed. One big difference though is that I've only got about 35K miles so I'd lean toward something on the Jeep side of the equation being bad.
I would suggest either the TPS system and/or connector, or if the PRV on the RIPP is not opening to let pressure off at idle or on vacuum...
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Do check the blow off valve to make sure it is venting at idle, if the problem persists we are going to need you to take a data log and forward the results to email@example.com with a brief description of the problem.
I checked out the thread above and it does sound familiar to mine. I'm leaning towards the TPS, bc like him it runs great then out of the blue it gets choppy. I plugged in the predator and at idle, the throttle valve % was at 0.65% when it was running smooth (warming up I guess). Then, as I was sitting there watching the live data, the normal issue came up and it started getting choppy like I've experienced before. Now the throttle position valve was jumping between 1.5% to 3.5%. There was an option for voltage but it read 0v the entire time, so I don't know if it should be 0v (no sensor to read) or if something is actually bad. So I have these numbers, but I don't know what they should be!
RIPP, thank you so much for chiming in. I check the BOV at idle and it is surely functioning, blowing out lots of air (could be used a blow dryer for the lady, just not as hot). I'll be more than glad to run a data log for you, would you mind walking me through how to do that? I have no problem selecting which sensors to read, but it's recording and sharing I'm not sure about. Or if you could give me some baseline numbers (MAP, Throttle, air/fuel, etc) I'll be more then glad to report back the numbers. Thanks again.
At this point I'm leaning towards buying a new throttle body, but at $160 a pop it would be nice if I could determine if it's bad or not if I knew how to actually test it and what numbers I should be expecting. The predator tool is really freaking nice, but I don't know what I should be getting versus what I am getting.
Thanks! If someone pinpoints the issue I'll buy them a case the next time they're in my neck of the woods.
I checked the BOV when the engine starts getting the studdering problem, it's open and flowing out freely. The engine will start off smooth, then go into the studdering mode with the lights coming on almost every time.
Before I bite the bullet and drop the money on a new throttle body, I'd like to measure the MAP and see if it is defective or not. I can read the numbers, but like I said before I don't know what they should be.
RIPP, can you help me on what the numbers should be or help guide me in how to send you the data log? Because of our great government, I'm getting my paychecks reduced by 20% so I don't have a lot of money to waste hoping a new part is going to fix the problem.
Upon checking the MAP sensor o-ring, I noticed there is only one screw holding the sensor down. I never noticed the backside (towards firewall) when I was checking for vacuum leaks. I sprayed the area with starting fluid and also used propane prior, and it didn't change the RPMs. It took a few weeks to come in from RIPP ($50), but this did cure my problem. The Jeep runs better than before.
Now for the brain teaser... See the scratched out lines on the large flat area? I never thought much of it, but when I got the new one, I found out this is a serial number. To my knowledge, there is only one reason why you scratch out serial numbers. Would also make since why the sensor is broken on the back side (a little hard to get to), with one screw out it could have been forced and broken off. On the side that's missing, there wasn't a screw in the manifold so it did not happen on me. I'm curious if the white stuff is glue to hold it down? Again, I'm the third owner. But what doesn't make sense to me, if you can afford a $25k Jeep and a $5k supercharger, why can't you afford a $50 sensor? Assuming it was stolen..
But yeah, I thought I would finish my thread with my culprit to the issue. I can't tell you how many similar threads I've come across with issues I have and they never say what fixed their problem. For future reference, I'm recording numbers while my engine is running good so I can get a baseline on what the numbers should be, since RIPP nor Jeep could give me any information on what the sensors should be reading.