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Unread 03-17-2014, 03:56 PM   #16
Blown08
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Same problem

Wow. I thought I was the only one. Won't pass emissions because of the check engine light. Clear it and it comes back eventually (1hr-3days). Same setup.. RIPP Stage 2, Borla exhaust, on a Rubicon with 35s. It all started with the install and I have had the same answers from RIPP. No leaks that I can find. I will say if you go back to stock, and not rollback the injectors, it will run like crap and I would guess, not pass emissions either. I would like to know if you have solved the problem. I could use the solution right about now.

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Unread 03-17-2014, 04:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blown08 View Post
Wow. I thought I was the only one. Won't pass emissions because of the check engine light. Clear it and it comes back eventually (1hr-3days). Same setup.. RIPP Stage 2, Borla exhaust, on a Rubicon with 35s. It all started with the install and I have had the same answers from RIPP. No leaks that I can find. I will say if you go back to stock, and not rollback the injectors, it will run like crap and I would guess, not pass emissions either. I would like to know if you have solved the problem. I could use the solution right about now.
Please take a data log with the included diablosport tuner and forward it along with the files that say "last tune written" and "original backup" to ripptuning@gmail.com please include a brief explanation of your problem.
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Unread 03-18-2014, 06:15 AM   #18
Maximous
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I would recommend contacting RIPP and they will facilitate with Diablo as needed. The Diablo guys were very helpful however mine is still unresolved. I have been living in China for 9 months and wont return full time to the US until this summer and before that it was parked for months with a broken axle. I don't put many miles on my cars...but they are hard miles!

I have tried numerous tunes the Diablo guys have given me have given me and none have resolved the issue. That said I think mine is the exception as I have heard few other issues of the nature.

The tunes all pertain to O2 sensors being in what state I believe.

I'll pursue when I get home but please let me know how it goes with yours once it's resolved.

V
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Unread 03-18-2014, 10:27 AM   #19
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Monitor and log your long term fuel trims(LTFT) B1 and B2. Observe where they are running at idle cruise and acceleration. Plus means the PCM is adding fuel and minus means the PCM is subtracting fuel from the base fuel calulation. So + 10 means the PCM is adding 10% more fuel than the cal has programmed as base fuel delivery.

At + 25-30% a P0171,174 will be thrown (B1 and B2). Conversely a P0172, 174 indicates a rich condition and the PCM is removing fuel. If only one bank throws a lean code it is likely there is an air leak or bad injector, etc on that side only. If 171, 174 are thrown together it is likely a common cause like low fuel pressure or large air leak.

Here's where it gets tricky, Chrysler runs their engines in speed density without actual air flow data reverting to a look up table instead. With the GM LS OS's we can fine tune airflow vs fuel using the MAF calibration. With Chrysler running in speed density (MAP) intake manifold pressure (vaccum) is critical and tables are used to calculate airflow based on rpm, intake vaccum, temperature, etc.

Add boost to a 1 bar OS and those tuners have their work cut out for them. So your issue may be in the calibration, send the data to Ripp.

I always display LTFT on any scan gauge I use while driving, between that and the O2 feedback you can tell a lot. Set your scan tool to watch LTFT's, where are trims high? Idle, cruise, boost? Many OS's go information performance enrichment (open loop) under hard acceleration and other driving conditions like DFCO (decelleration fuel cut off) and LTFT's are ignored so monitor during normal driving conditions in CL(closed loop).
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Unread 03-24-2014, 05:02 PM   #20
Blown08
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I will send a log once I get these last 3 sensors to reset and try my luck. O2, EGR, and Catalyst have not reset yet after 250 miles. If the code trips before I make emissions, I will log it. I have already sent my original tune and the tune given to RIPP. I have not heard back for over a week. This next time I will send a log with it. As I said, 250 miles, no CEL, but the sensors have not reset yet.
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Unread 03-24-2014, 05:21 PM   #21
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250 miles is a long time for those monitors to not set. I assume your are talking about the monitors?

If possible check you mode 6 data, monitors require the sensor data to stay within a certain range to complete; if outside that range the monitor will not run and complete, it will be rejected. Mode 6 data will tell you what, if any, sensor data has failed, or is out of range. In this case the monitor will never set, that is the issue with some Hemi installs, the monitors never complete because the monitor data is out of range.
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Unread 03-25-2014, 02:36 PM   #22
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Yeah, I'm talking about the monitors.
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Unread 03-25-2014, 02:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
My Jeep configuration is:

2010, 2 Door Jeep JK, Manual trans, 4:88 gears 35” tires, Ripp
Supercharger, stage II (meaning with the intercooler) long tube headers
also from Ripp and Borla cat back.

The problem I am having is that the Jeep will not pass New Hampshire
state emissions. No Check engine light but the following codes:

P0171 bank 1 fuel system too lean
P0174 bank 2 fuel system too lean

In looking into the codes it appears to be saying the downstream O2
sensors are not efficient.

I don’t know exactly what this means.

I initially requested help from Ripp. They advised me to update to the
newest software. This was a bit of a problem because both my version and
programmer version were out of date. The Diablo guys were especially
helpful with this and eventually they walked me through everything and I
got the Jeep up to date and I do believe it runs a bit better than it
did with my previous version. I was at 2.6, updated to 3.3.

At the time the guys at Ripp told me I needed to run it a bit before
again testing the emissions which was a couple weeks ago and I have put
maybe 500 miles on it since. Still will not pass. Codes will come back
if I clear them. I have requested help or at least some direction from
the Ripp guys but have heard nothing back. Mike at Diablo has tried to
help in telling me that he thinks it is likely a leak in the intake
system. I spent time looking at this today but found no problems or
leaks anywhere in the intake.

I have about 39000 on the Jeep, roughly 20k of that is with the
supercharger and exhaust from Ripp. I have never previously had a
problem passing emissions and after some early problems the Jeep has
generally run very good. Fuel milage was initially 16ish after the
install but dropped to 13.5-14 by the time I got to the 2.6 tune.
Mileage has never been a big concern.

In researching the codes, they pointed me to the downstream O2 sensors,
the cats or an exhaust leak. I have thoroughly gone through the exhaust
and intake systems for leaks…no problem found. I have checked the O2
wiring and connectors for any issues related to heat or damage from
touching pipes and such. All appear to be good. The Diablo tuner allows
me to look at the sensors live and they appear to be working. The cats/Y
pipe have only 20kish on them so I would not think they are bad. I have
asked Ripp if there is any known issue but no response from them so I’d
like to know if any of you other guys with this set up have had any
issues of the like?

I’d normally take it to the dealer as emissions issues are generally
covered for a long time on new vehicles but this having all the add on I
can’t do so without paying for hourly labor…potentially a lot…I sought
guidance from Ripp and they were a bit impatient with me just with the
tune and no response at all this week when writing that I still have a
problem. I don’t think it has anything to do with the supercharger but I
am also using their cats and tune.

I’m getting desperate here… pulled over twice today by police from 2
different towns!!

Anyone have any experience with this kind of issue? Any ideas? I just
don’t know where to go next in troubleshooting it. Any advise or ideas
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

V
First and foremost the Headers are an offroad use product not intended
to be emissions legal.

The RIPP 3.3 Tune has the O2's fully functioning and in full swing...
When this happens we have seen:

Water in the gas or lines:
  • this will produce a weak fuel delivery after which the fully
    functioning adaptive's can and will adapt to the run condition without a
    code.

Weak Ignition (coil, wire or spark plugs):
  • This will cause a rich condition, which the O2's will pick up and
    swing the bank lean... Once again this can happen and will happen
    without codes.

Weak O2:
  • New or Old the O2 can be bad, our 08 JK had 3 replaced at 1200 miles.

Air leaks
  • Exhaust leak
  • EGR LEAK
  • Vacuum leak

Here is some more information that we have been able to DIG up and may be a useful Reference to ALL JEEP OWNERS. (Moderators please sticky)

Chrysler Drive Cycle Information
Copyright 1999-2005, EASE Diagnostics. All rights reserved. Information is subject to change without notice.
All trademarks are property of their respective owners. The display of trademarks does not imply that any license has been granted by its owner.
No trademark infringement is intended and no suggestion is made that the owner of the trademark endorses our products.
EASE Diagnostics 2005

Note: 1996 Chrysler vehicles do not maintain readiness after engine shutdown. The vehicles can be re-programmed to fix this problem, and may already have had a re-programming that addressed this issue.

All Monitor Drive Trace
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off
- Cold start (Note: cold start temperature is undefined)
Driving Procedure
1) Warm engine up for five minutes (must reach closed loop)
2) Drive (with steady throttle) at a speed between 40 and 60 mph for 8 minutes.
3) Stop and idle for 3 minutes.
4) Drive (with steady throttle) at a speed above 20 mph for 2 minutes.
5) Turn key off, leave off for ten minutes (to run O2 sensor heater monitor).
Note: Due to the limited preconditions provided with this drive trace, NCVECS
recommends using the monitor specific drive traces for Chrysler vehicles.

Catalyst Monitor Drive Trace
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- No DTCs present.
- Fuel level is between 15% and 85% full.
- ECT above 70 F.
- Engine must have run at least 90 seconds
- Engine between 1,350 & 1,900 rpm.

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes(to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 30 and 45 mph for 2 minutes.

EGR System Monitor Drive Trace - Vacuum controlled
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:

- MIL must be off.

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 40 & 60 mph for 8 minutes.

EGR System Monitor Drive Trace - Electronic
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:

- MIL must be off.
- MAP must be between 0-60 KPa.
- Engine speed between 500-850 rpm.
- ECT is above 180 F (90 C).
- No misfire temporary (pending) or matured fault present.
- A/C clutch, PS Switch and Cooling fans do not change state (turn off).

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five (5) minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 40 & 60 mph for 2 minutes.
3) Idle vehicle for three (3) minutes.

Note: This monitor evaluates EGR flow based on a change of engine roughness (idlestability). Conditions causing un-stable idle will prevent this monitor from running.

Evaporitive system Test

Trace 1: Standard Type

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- No Evaporative DTCs present.
- Fuel level is between and full.
(Note: monitor may still run with tank fill between 15% and 85%).

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes(to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 30 and 45 mph for 2 minutes.

Trace 2: Leak Detection Pump

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- No Evaporative DTCs present.
- Fuel level is between 30 & 85 % full.

Driving Procedure
1) Cold soak vehicle, start and idle vehicle for 4 minutes.
2) Drive in-town (stop and go) for 5 minutes, using smooth accelerations and
decelerations.
3) Stop and idle vehicle for 4 minutes.


O2 Sensor Monitor Drive Trace

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed above 25 mph for 2 minutes.
3) Stop and idle for 30 seconds.
4) Smoothly accelerate to a speed between 30 and 40 mph.
5) Repeat steps 3 & 4 five (5) times.

O2 Sensor Heater Monitor Drive Trace

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Shut engine off and leave vehicle off for ten minutes

IF STILL NOT READY AFTER PERFORMING ABOVE :
(Freeway readiness cycle. 1,792 Seconds ( 29.87 Minutes) AT an AVERAGE of 59.4 MPH must stay within 3MPH +/-)

HOW TO CHECK IF YOU ARE READY FOR YOU STATE INSPECTION: (Readiness tests complete)

For Jeep Chrysler and Dodge, the owner’s manual states that the vehicle has a simple
ignition key actuated test, which you can use prior to going to the test station. To check if your vehicle’s OBD II system is ready, you must do the following:

1- Turn the ignition switch to the “ON” position, but do not crank or start the engine. If you crank or start the engine, you will have to start this test over.

2- As soon as you turn the ignition switch to the ON position, you will see the MIL symbol come on as part of a normal bulb check.

3- Approximately 15 seconds later, one of two things will happen:

a. The MIL will flash for about 10 seconds and then return to being fully illuminated until
you turn OFF the ignition or start the engine. This means that your vehicle’s OBD II
system is not ready and you should NOT proceed to the Emissions Check station.

b. The MIL will not flash at all and will remain fully illuminated until you turn OFF the
ignition or start the engine. This means that your vehicle’s OBD II system is ready and
you CAN proceed to the Emissions Check station.

Hope this helps EVERYONE!!
RIPPTECH
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Unread 03-25-2014, 02:55 PM   #24
Blown08
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I've been taking it easy on the driving, fearing the CEL will come back. I'll rip around a little more today and see if that does it.
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Unread 03-25-2014, 03:26 PM   #25
73azbronco
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It just amazes me that in 2014, with the technology we have, we have to wait and watch a light blink to determine if something is right, when all it really needs to do is say "ready" or "fails Emissions check codes" on the little annunciator section.
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Unread 03-25-2014, 11:36 PM   #26
JLC08JK
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This thread has been added to the stickies for now and I will add a link to the JK F.A.Q. when I get a chance
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Unread 03-26-2014, 09:49 PM   #27
Maximous
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Hi Guys,

I want to comment on the message above. Specifically the comment below:

"First and foremost the Headers are an offroad use product not intended
to be emissions legal."

When I bought this kit with blower, cat and headers it was sold to me as emissions legal. The stance may now be that the headers are off road but they were not advertised as such then. I bought the kit when my Jeep was at roughly 16-18000 miles and it had no issue passing inspection at the time. The kit Gen 2 supercharger kit adding on headers was all touted as passing emissions otherwise I would not have purchased it.

That said I believe the headers themselves are not the problem.

The notes above give me some insight that was not previously explained. I am confident that I have no vacuum leak, EGR leak or no exhaust leak.

I have done all things asked of me by RIPP and Diablo previously to no avail. I am currently traveling internationally so the jeep is again sitting. When I return I will pursue the other recommendations about pertaining to spark and even replacing the O2's.

The only thing that happened between when the jeep passed inspection to when it no longer passed was that it sat for a few months as I broke the front axle assembly.

My frustration is not that I have to spend money to fix the issue it is just that it has been difficult to diagnose. My dad is a certified Chrysler tech and has been for all of my life and he is also at a loss to the cause.

Then to be told years after I bought the set up that it is "offroad" is BS. I would also note that when I buy offroad headers for my drag cars and such they don't come with O2 bungs in the first place. That may or may not be relevant but to me indicates the kit is intended to work with the emissions system.

I would not have bought the headers at all if they stated offroad only at the time...they did not.

Thanks,

V
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Unread 03-27-2014, 05:13 PM   #28
RIPPMODS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximous View Post
Hi Guys,

I want to comment on the message above. Specifically the comment below:

"First and foremost the Headers are an offroad use product not intended
to be emissions legal."

When I bought this kit with blower, cat and headers it was sold to me as emissions legal. The stance may now be that the headers are off road but they were not advertised as such then. I bought the kit when my Jeep was at roughly 16-18000 miles and it had no issue passing inspection at the time. The kit Gen 2 supercharger kit adding on headers was all touted as passing emissions otherwise I would not have purchased it.

That said I believe the headers themselves are not the problem.

The notes above give me some insight that was not previously explained. I am confident that I have no vacuum leak, EGR leak or no exhaust leak.

I have done all things asked of me by RIPP and Diablo previously to no avail. I am currently traveling internationally so the jeep is again sitting. When I return I will pursue the other recommendations about pertaining to spark and even replacing the O2's.

The only thing that happened between when the jeep passed inspection to when it no longer passed was that it sat for a few months as I broke the front axle assembly.

My frustration is not that I have to spend money to fix the issue it is just that it has been difficult to diagnose. My dad is a certified Chrysler tech and has been for all of my life and he is also at a loss to the cause.

Then to be told years after I bought the set up that it is "offroad" is BS. I would also note that when I buy offroad headers for my drag cars and such they don't come with O2 bungs in the first place. That may or may not be relevant but to me indicates the kit is intended to work with the emissions system.

I would not have bought the headers at all if they stated offroad only at the time...they did not.

Thanks,

V
First and foremost, any relocation of the factory O2 sensors and Cat's CANNOT be certified as 50 state legal, and it is why we do not advertise them as such.
Your knowledge of the use of O2 sensors in the exhaust is flawed in that most computer control vehicle system will utilize the O2 sensors for fuel trimming purposes, this goes with race cars as well.
Our standard arm headers do come with High flow CATS to allow for a check engine free environment, which is what you have. What you do not have is emissions readiness which CAN be remedied by one of the above listed checks and by performing the readiness list listed above.

What we do advertise is a check engine light free environment. That we delivered, your vehicles emissions readiness is a result of an issue with your specific vehicle. Our calibrations do NOT mess with that, otherwise we would NOT have received our CARB EO number on out 2007-2011 system, which IS advertised as 50 state legal.

All that said we do understand your frustrations and are trying everything we can to address your vehicles specific issues.

RIPP
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Unread 03-29-2014, 02:45 PM   #29
Blown08
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To update my problem with "system too lean".... I just had to do a radiator change. While working, I noticed a hole the size of an eraser on the aluminum piping going to the intercooler. It was worn from the lower radiator hose clamp at the radiator, and vibration. I have patched the hole and I'm waiting for the monitors to reset. I also noticed a clearance problem at the overflow bottle. It is working on doing the same thing, even though it is plastic. In these wear locations, I have since moved the hose clamp, and put a few pieces of gorilla tape in between the water bottle and piping to reduce wear. I suggest checking the piping for clearance in these locations so it doesn't happen to you.
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Unread 03-29-2014, 04:34 PM   #30
Blown08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximous
I would recommend contacting RIPP and they will facilitate with Diablo as needed. The Diablo guys were very helpful however mine is still unresolved. I have been living in China for 9 months and wont return full time to the US until this summer and before that it was parked for months with a broken axle. I don't put many miles on my cars...but they are hard miles! I have tried numerous tunes the Diablo guys have given me have given me and none have resolved the issue. That said I think mine is the exception as I have heard few other issues of the nature. The tunes all pertain to O2 sensors being in what state I believe. I'll pursue when I get home but please let me know how it goes with yours once it's resolved. V
I found an eraser sized hole in one of the intercooler pipes. It was caused by vibration and the lower radiator hose clamp. It polished right through it. I have patched the hole with gasket maker and duct tape, lol, and found another one starting at the overflow bottle for the radiator. I put duct tape in between the contacted spots. Reset the computer and started driving it. I will let you know if this solved the problem. I would check your intercooler piping for holes in the aluminum, especially at the lower radiator hose.
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