Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 6 - JeepForum.com

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post #76 of 360 Old 02-26-2011, 01:00 PM
RockyClymer
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If it were me I would take the track bar off, check the bushings and reintall it if good bushings and torque to min 125 lb-ft. If that does not fix it, then we can move on to others things that would cause DW. I think it is important to eliminate the main cause first, what say others?


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post #77 of 360 Old 02-26-2011, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
planman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nozzleman1234 View Post
I have checked some of the things in Planman's post. When it comes to "meaningful play" in the tie rod ends and drag link I have some play 1/16-1/8" of movement in all 4. Are they bad? As far as the track bar goes the bolts are extremely tight and there is no shiny metal or even scrapes in the paint on the brackets...should I still take the track bar off and inspect the holes? I bought the 2 Door JK yesterday and it happend at 70 mph on the way home. Guess the seller made their problem mine. I have to update my profile to the right jeep. Any help would be appreciated
The tie rod ends should allow rotational movement, but 1/8" side to side or up and down play is too much.

The drag link ends should not have 1/8" in and out play.

DW at 70 mph would be extraordinarily violent--risking ripping off the trackbar brackets from their welds.

Full DW would have required you to almost stop the vehicle before the DW stopped. If that is what happened, you do need to remove the trackbar to inspect the bracket bolt holes and end bushings. You also need to inspect the bracket welds.


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Originally Posted by wmartinhickman View Post
thanks Planman! You have truly been more than helpful! I really appreciate the time and knowledge that you have shared with all of us!
Thank you
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post #78 of 360 Old 02-26-2011, 02:58 PM
meon2wheels
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Well Planman, as others have said, thanks for saving me a huge future headache! I checked my '11 Rubicon with 1000 miles on it and it took nearly half a turn to torque the drivers side trackbar bolt. The pass side was only about an 1/8 turn or less. Well done! Jim
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post #79 of 360 Old 02-27-2011, 11:07 AM
nozzleman1234
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Well I inspected the welds for the track bar mounts, no cracks. I was going to take my track bar off but could not budge the bolts. Even used a cheater bar. By the way the jeep does have 94k on it mabe some worn components?When planman says to check the tie rod ends and drag bar ends I have movement with the channel locks. I do have play up and down when I squeeze the channel locks together. Not bad at the pitman arm but bad at the passenger wheel both drag bar end and tie rod end. When I experienced the wobble (twice at 70-75 and twice at 60-65) I had to just about come to a complete stop to get it to stop. It was extremely violent (thought I was going to crash). With what I have found could I have experienced something other than death wobble? I am going to make an appointment at a reputable suspension shop monday for an inspection. If they don't find anything I am going to have them pull the track bar and replace the bushings. I don't know what else to do. Any other advice? I hate that i have a "new to me" jeep that i can't drive.
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post #80 of 360 Old 02-27-2011, 11:30 AM
RockyClymer
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I believe it is common that the joints will rotate, but they are not supposed to move "up and down" in the joint. I would remain concerned about the track bar mounting still the same...just me I guess. I think it would be good for them to loosen and retorque the track bar (this must be done while the vehicle is on the ground though, not on a lift or the bushings will have a preload on them). Will this thread just go on and on and on like the Energizer bunny?

08 JK 23S - Colorado Jeep Club No. 204
Too much to list - see my profile for details on build
16 JK Rubi with all the trimmings
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post #81 of 360 Old 03-01-2011, 05:21 PM
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* if you do anything that affects the lenght or axle side mount to the track bar (bracket) it will make your alignment change!
Ecspecially is you have a currie sterring setup
why?
your steering box/pitman arm is connected to what? the frame
your outer tierod is attached to what?the knuckle/axle
the track bar is what centers the axle under frame
so if that changes at all then your changing the steering geometry
there was a post a few pages back where they had some sort of frame side bracket done and then it pulled hard right when they left the shop......that spurred me to post this

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/speedbuckets-zj-build-1361322/
V8 zj at 6" . Double tri rear and true 3 link front. Stretched to 108"
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post #82 of 360 Old 03-01-2011, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
planman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedbucket View Post
* if you do anything that affects the lenght or axle side mount to the track bar (bracket) it will make your alignment change!
Ecspecially is you have a currie sterring setup
why?
your steering box/pitman arm is connected to what? the frame
your outer tierod is attached to what?the knuckle/axle
the track bar is what centers the axle under frame
so if that changes at all then your changing the steering geometry
there was a post a few pages back where they had some sort of frame side bracket done and then it pulled hard right when they left the shop......that spurred me to post this
The JK setup is very different from prior setups.

A slightly off center front axle on a JK doesn't really affect toe, caster, or camber.
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post #83 of 360 Old 03-12-2011, 09:01 AM
ratmeister
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Planman, your color coded picture and detailed guide helped me get my death wobble fixed. Unfortunately, I had to pay a shop for the labor and parts, but with your information, I knew what they were talking about and that they were actually fixing the problem and not just giving me the run-around.

My issue after a 3" lift was fixed with a new track bar, lower control arms, steering stabilizer, and an alignment. That picture was a lifesaver to understand the process.

Thanks!

1995 Wrangler with more new parts than old. Basically a complete restoration minus any engine work.
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post #84 of 360 Old 03-12-2011, 09:18 AM
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Yeah, I agree that this is one very helpful post. I used it to avoid DW when installing my lift. Originally, the OME kit I got didn't say I needed F&R Trackbars. After reading this and some other threads I chose to spend the coin and get JKS F&R TB's. It was a very wise decision thus far. High quality stuff, and when torqued to spec they just feel better than stock.

08" X, 2DR, Jeep Green, RIPP Gen II Supercharger, Custom painted graphite MB Stryker 16" wheels, 35" Dura-Tracs, flat fenders, XRC Front bumper w/ XRC 8 winch, Superchips Flashpaq, Safari Straps, OME/ARB MD coils, Bilstein 5100's, JKS front and rear track bars, Superior 5.13 gears, Detroit True Trac LSD, A to Z Fab Rock Sliders
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post #85 of 360 Old 03-12-2011, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
planman
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Thanks guys. The picture wasn't my creation. I linked it from an internet magazine website that uses it for a self-alignment write-up. It is really helpful to learn how everything works in the front end.
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post #86 of 360 Old 04-01-2011, 02:22 PM
FarleyBob
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Is it just me, or is that passenger side trackbar bolt hard to get to? What do you usually use to tighten this? I have a torque wrench that needs an extension to get to the front side, the back side nut is hard to get at.

FarleyBob Jeep Man / Hawkeye Fan
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post #87 of 360 Old 04-01-2011, 02:44 PM
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not sure how it works on a jk, but you literally can't get a wrench on the back side of the zj mount. i ended up sacrificing a closed end wrench and cut it to get into the bracket then used the stub en against the bracket to hold the nut and tightened the bolt from the front side

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/speedbuckets-zj-build-1361322/
V8 zj at 6" . Double tri rear and true 3 link front. Stretched to 108"
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post #88 of 360 Old 04-01-2011, 02:51 PM
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You can get a wrench on the back nut then just turn the front bolt till the wrench on the back catches the axle bracket and holds the nut.
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post #89 of 360 Old 04-04-2011, 09:58 PM
raz631
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Fun Fun Fun

Hi everyone!

I have been reading this thread and just about every other thread on the internet with the word "death wobble" in it for some time now....

However my car still has the problem!

The almost uncontrollable left to right shaking of my entire car that does not stop until I do.. (08 JK 4 door)

I have in the last month or so managed to get it from a vehicle that was almost un-drivable at anything over 95 km/h (55 Mile?) to now a car I can drive at 100km/h and over rough bumps etc without much of a problem... until I go around a bend.... at 100km/h..... and hit a bump! Then its on.

My experience is this....

Brought my jeep 2nd hand with a 2.5" lift from ARB fitted Old man emu shocks (no control arms)
Drove great! no problems

6 months later.... going around a bend at 100km/h and over a bump my car started to shake.... stopped in about 2 second or so and did not do it again.

Rang up a local 4wd shop... he said your damper is probably on its way out... so I got a rancho one and fitted that... It made it worse!

so I put the old one back on and went and got a wheel alignment and balance. that did not help. so i got another one elsewhere. no change. it just got worse and worse to the point that it gets out of control!

Decided to go over everything in this thread and others to track the problem down. I Now have a new front adjustable track bar, sway bar links, ball joints upper and lower adjustable control arms with my caster set at 5.5 degrees (at the alignment shop) I have rotated my tires a tone of times, replaced the rod end that connects to the pitman arm and checked the others.

I have been under my car countless times with a friend moving the wheel and there is no movement anywhere!

the only thing I have noticed recently is that there is a bit of play or a light clunking noise in my steering! can this be the cause?

What now?
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post #90 of 360 Old 04-04-2011, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
planman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raz631 View Post
Hi everyone!

I have been reading this thread and just about every other thread on the internet with the word "death wobble" in it for some time now....

However my car still has the problem!

The almost uncontrollable left to right shaking of my entire car that does not stop until I do.. (08 JK 4 door)

I have in the last month or so managed to get it from a vehicle that was almost un-drivable at anything over 95 km/h (55 Mile?) to now a car I can drive at 100km/h and over rough bumps etc without much of a problem... until I go around a bend.... at 100km/h..... and hit a bump! Then its on.

My experience is this....

Brought my jeep 2nd hand with a 2.5" lift from ARB fitted Old man emu shocks (no control arms)
Drove great! no problems

6 months later.... going around a bend at 100km/h and over a bump my car started to shake.... stopped in about 2 second or so and did not do it again.

Rang up a local 4wd shop... he said your damper is probably on its way out... so I got a rancho one and fitted that... It made it worse!

so I put the old one back on and went and got a wheel alignment and balance. that did not help. so i got another one elsewhere. no change. it just got worse and worse to the point that it gets out of control!

Decided to go over everything in this thread and others to track the problem down. I Now have a new front adjustable track bar, sway bar links, ball joints upper and lower adjustable control arms with my caster set at 5.5 degrees (at the alignment shop) I have rotated my tires a tone of times, replaced the rod end that connects to the pitman arm and checked the others.

I have been under my car countless times with a friend moving the wheel and there is no movement anywhere!

the only thing I have noticed recently is that there is a bit of play or a light clunking noise in my steering! can this be the cause?

What now?
There should be no clunking in your steering. I've often traced clunks to actually come from the axle side trackbar bracket.

Here is the problem: Unless you go through the entire inspection checklist in one sitting, you can end up chasing your tail. One loose or worn component takes out another, etc, etc.

So, even if you welded washers on your trackbar brackets to make the holes smaller, the DW might have taken out the ball joints. Then, before you fix your ball joints, the bushings in your new trackbar get destroyed. Then, before you replace the bushings in the trackbar, the DW destroys your drag link and tie rod ends. Then, etc., etc.

So, the best way to do it is to go through the entire checklist in one sitting.

I have one local friend who ended up fixing everything that was wrong. However, by the time he fixed everything, his tires were severely feathered--causing severe shimmies at certain speeds. It wasn't full on DW, but if anything ever worked itself loose, the bad tires would have triggered DW.

And...FYI, we call jeeps "rigs' or maybe "trucks," but there is a legend in the jeepers' world that whenever someone calls a jeep a "car" a kitten dies....
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death wobble , JK Wrangler , shake , shaking , steering shimmy , wheel shimmy , wrangler

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