Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles - Page 18 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Wrangler Forums > JK Wrangler Technical Forum > Diagnosing Death Wobble and Fixing Non-DW Shimmies and Wobbles

Clayton Off Road JK Short Arm Suspension Kits~Artec JK 1 TON SWAP~Engo winches available at www.rockridge4wd.com! Free shipp

Reply
Unread 09-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #256
grand poobah
Registered User
2007 XK Commander 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: milwaukee
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Yes. Fix everything that is bad at once and upgrade the trackbar and bolts.

Do not drive your rig till it is fixed. It will only cause more damage.

If you replace things piecemeal, the new parts will fail prematurely due to the looseness and wobbles caused by the other parts.
Thanks Planman. This isn't going to be cheap, but I want to make sure every possible source is addressed so the problem is fixed for good.

Any other suggestion or advice...please let me know

grand poobah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-25-2014, 03:47 PM   #257
planman
Thanks to all Mod erators
 
planman's Avatar
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,360
For everyone's information, I found this from the Chrysler rep on the forum:

(Dealers should know better now.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCares View Post
There is an update available on the Steering Shimmy issue. Service Bulletin 19-002-12 has been distributed to the dealers. The Jeep Owners site been updated with the same information referenced below:

Steering System Maintenance:
It is important that the steering system be kept in good working condition. Having your vehicle inspected regularly to ensure it meets proper factory specifications, and promptly repairing the steering system when it is out of factory specifications, helps ensure the vehicle maintains its intended ride, handling and steering characteristics.
Vehicles equipped with a solid front axle may exhibit steering system vibration if the steering system is damaged or not properly maintained. This condition is not unique to Chrysler Group vehicles; any manufacturer’s vehicle equipped with a solid front axle has the potential to exhibit steering system vibration.
To ensure that Chrysler Group customers have the most relevant information to enhance their vehicle enjoyment -- and that customers receive the best service from repair facilities diagnosing and addressing steering system vibration -- the Company has issued Technical Service Bulletin 19-002-12 to assist dealers and repair facilities in the diagnosis and repair of this condition.
The following is a summary of the steering and suspension system elements that can potentially contribute to steering system vibration. Chrysler recommends having your authorized Chrysler dealer inspect these elements should you experience steering system vibration:
  • Is the vehicle equipped with aftermarket components or other modifications (e.g. lift kits, wheels, suspension components or tires) that can affect the performance of or wear upon steering components?*
  • Check the air pressure in the tires and ensure they are inflated to the recommended pressure. This value can be found on the tire placard located on the driver’s front door enclosure.
  • Inspect the tires for signs of unusual or uneven wear, cupping or other damage.
  • Ensure that the tires/wheels are balanced within specification
  • Inspect the steering damper for excessive wear or damage.**
  • Inspect the track bar for excessive wear or damage.**
  • Inspect the tie rods for excessive wear or damage.**
  • Inspect the drag link for excessive wear or damage.**
  • Inspect the ball joints for excessive wear or damage.**
* Installation of aftermarket steering and suspension components or wheel and tire assemblies that are either not compatible with your vehicle or not designed for on-road use is most often the cause of steering system vibration, in which case you may consult your aftermarket equipment manufacturer or vehicle modifier for repair suggestions
** If any of the steering or suspension components are replaced, a front end wheel alignment is required.
If you have questions regarding your vehicle, its ride and handling or steering characteristics as they may relate to steering system vibration, please consult with your authorized Chrysler Group dealer to have your vehicle inspected.
planman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2014, 02:50 PM   #258
RayT2
Registered User
2009 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York
Posts: 6
New to this site but not to Jeeps in general.
Now for a embarrassing question. I only know it as a 2009 Wrangler X. How to confirm it's a JK etc ?? It has 3.8L and 6 spd manual trans. Rag top, bone stock no frills.

It's not mine but rather my GF's, I'm the wrench if ya know what I mean. It has the dredded DW. It's been to dealers several times for the issue and now armed with all this great info from Planman it's going back again. So far dealer has replaced the track bar, front axle universal's, front stabilizer and the latest, new skins all the way around, the problem still persists. I am printing this post and taking it with me on Thursday when Jeep goes back again. On the plus side she purchased the Lifetime Max Care plan when she bought this Jeep knowing she was going to keep it for a long time. That plan has now come into play. 97k on the odo to date.
Thanks Planman for this great info.


Ray T
RayT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2014, 03:48 PM   #259
duneslider
Registered User
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Riverton, Utah
Posts: 697
2007 through current year wranglers are JK's. So, it is a wrangler JK X. X is just the model, ie, X, Sahara, Rubicon.

Most of what the dealer did was a complete waste of time and money.
If you can't do the inspection yourself, I guess taking the print out to the dealer will work, if they can even read it.
duneslider is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-24-2014, 04:05 PM   #260
planman
Thanks to all Mod erators
 
planman's Avatar
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayT2
New to this site but not to Jeeps in general. Now for a embarrassing question. I only know it as a 2009 Wrangler X. How to confirm it's a JK etc ?? It has 3.8L and 6 spd manual trans. Rag top, bone stock no frills. It's not mine but rather my GF's, I'm the wrench if ya know what I mean. It has the dredded DW. It's been to dealers several times for the issue and now armed with all this great info from Planman it's going back again. So far dealer has replaced the track bar, front axle universal's, front stabilizer and the latest, new skins all the way around, the problem still persists. I am printing this post and taking it with me on Thursday when Jeep goes back again. On the plus side she purchased the Lifetime Max Care plan when she bought this Jeep knowing she was going to keep it for a long time. That plan has now come into play. 97k on the odo to date. Thanks Planman for this great info. Ray T
Have you watched the two YoiuTube videos at the beginning of the thread?
planman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2014, 08:14 AM   #261
RayT2
Registered User
2009 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Have you watched the two YoiuTube videos at the beginning of the thread?
Haven't been able to watch the video here at work where I spend most time on computer, they block YouTube video's and other sites as well. Seeing the service bulletin was a big help. If time allows I will watch the vidoe's from home tonight. Jeep goes to dealer on Thursday.
I agree they are not being thorough enough in their efforst but with that Max Care warranty we ain't gonna incur any costs other than the first visit $100 charge. They haven't resolved the problem and we won't pay another dime.
I'll post results after the next dealer visit.
I'm also gonna report this to NHTSB as well


Ray T
RayT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-26-2014, 11:37 AM   #262
RayT2
Registered User
2009 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York
Posts: 6
Dw

Planman,
Watched the video last night from home. Your video and commentary clarified what they have yet to do as far as I'm concerned. Jeep has 97k so I'm going to be mentioning this to dealer when we drop it off tomorrow. Things that I'll be questioning when we drop it off is;
Were the track bar bolts retorqued to 125 ft# and any elongation of the bolt holes found when replacing it.?
Drag Link ends, Ball Joints, Tie Rod Ends checked for play ? Dealer made no mention of inspecting them. They replaced stabilizer, track bar & universals. Pretty clear by your notes they should be verifying before replacing but I'm not there to hold their hand.

Duneslider: Initial $100 cost but no further cash outlay since they never resolved the issue. Lifetime Max Care Warranty is gonna pay off big time with this repair under their warranty.
RayT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-26-2014, 12:27 PM   #263
planman
Thanks to all Mod erators
 
planman's Avatar
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayT2
Planman, Watched the video last night from home. Your video and commentary clarified what they have yet to do as far as I'm concerned. Jeep has 97k so I'm going to be mentioning this to dealer when we drop it off tomorrow. Things that I'll be questioning when we drop it off is; Were the track bar bolts retorqued to 125 ft# and any elongation of the bolt holes found when replacing it.? Drag Link ends, Ball Joints, Tie Rod Ends checked for play ? Dealer made no mention of inspecting them. They replaced stabilizer, track bar & universals. Pretty clear by your notes they should be verifying before replacing but I'm not there to hold their hand. Duneslider: Initial $100 cost but no further cash outlay since they never resolved the issue. Lifetime Max Care Warranty is gonna pay off big time with this repair under their warranty.
Dealers tend to suggest a broader range for tolerance of looseness in drag link and tie rod ends than I do.

My advice is for owners to do the inspections first. Then, they can tell the dealer what is wrong.

If I thought you could count on your dealer to properly inspect, diagnose, and repair DW and non-DW shimmies and vibrations, I would have never written this thread or recorded the videos. I would have just told people to go to their dealers.
planman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-26-2014, 02:10 PM   #264
73azbronco
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 510
Planman, is there a point in production they ever started using Us standard bolt vs metric sizes or do all JK through current production have this issue?
73azbronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2014, 12:43 PM   #265
RayT2
Registered User
2009 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York
Posts: 6
End result of last service for the DW fix, no problems noted by service tech unable to duplicate problem. So we again will bring the Jeep home and use for rest of week. If DW rears it's head I'm gonna video tape the shake & rattle. I will do my own check this weekend following your video tape guidance. I'm not very hopefull DW is resolved but I'm up against a dealer service rep. in denial. My test will be documented on a video. Then will go directly to Service Mgr. Somewhat pessimistic, I can hear the dealer now "are you a certified ASE Tech"..............any advice appreciated
RayT2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2014, 04:43 PM   #266
planman
Thanks to all Mod erators
 
planman's Avatar
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayT2
End result of last service for the DW fix, no problems noted by service tech unable to duplicate problem. So we again will bring the Jeep home and use for rest of week. If DW rears it's head I'm gonna video tape the shake & rattle. I will do my own check this weekend following your video tape guidance. I'm not very hopefull DW is resolved but I'm up against a dealer service rep. in denial. My test will be documented on a video. Then will go directly to Service Mgr. Somewhat pessimistic, I can hear the dealer now "are you a certified ASE Tech"..............any advice appreciated
Yes. Follow my written inspection checklist. Identify everything that needs repair or replacement.

You don't need to prove that it needs replacement with a video. Just take it back and tell him what you think is wrong.

For example tell them that the lower ball joints have a lot of play, that the track bar bracket holes are ovaled, that the drag link and at the steering knuckle is worn, and/or that the track bar bushings are worn, etc. Whatever you find.

If they ask you if your mechanic, tell them no, it doesn't really take a train mechanic to see these things are loose, worn, or damaged.
planman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2014, 06:06 PM   #267
222Doc
Registered User
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 4,739
NHTSB wont do zip.... that's like calling your mom. This issue has been around since the first straight axle was made 4x4 or 2x4. its the nature of the beast. It is best to get to know the how why. as for the dealer monkeys with a wrench. That cert means nothing except they charge to much and do poor work. VERY few times have I ever had them not do more damage than they fixed. then blame it on Bush.

The One time they did have a good mechanic was when our 3.6 spit its valves and they replaced that head. The guy did such a clean Job at first i though no one worked on it. But the next trip to the dealer to have the recall on the power steering hose, was a total HACK job. Oil every where dripping down and through the frame, just a f^^^^^^ mess. left the safty clips off the quick releases. I hate to even bring the thing there and have replaced many things that might have been warrantied. Just hate risking having yet another monkey with a hand grande touch it.
__________________
http://www.parker4wheelers.net
www.bullhead4wheelersinc.com
222Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 12:43 PM   #268
taoshum
Registered User
2008 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Taos, New Mexico
Posts: 907
Planman,

Thanks for all your work and posts on this shimmy/DW topic!!!

Here's a story you might comment on...

Two weeks ago, just got home after some off-road trails in SW Az and towing the '08 Jeep 700 miles from Az to home. I immediately changed the tires from the MT tread to the AT tread for DD routine. After a few days on the AT tires, I noticed a slight wobble on smooth highways at about 55-60 mph...over the next few days, noticed that it only happens on the way to work, when the temperature is about 20 deg... while on the way home, no wobble... temp is about 60 deg. The next day, on the way to work, it started up again, so I slowed down and put it in 4WD-Hi, went back to 60 mph and no wobble, no shimmy, nothing, all normal. Did this for about 30 seconds, then shifted back to 2WD, still no wobble/shimmy. Next day, going to work, same shimmy/wobble.

That night I found this thread and your video/checklist and this morning I went through the checklist. BTW, odo is at 39,000 miles. I /checked/put the correct torque on all the bolts, they had already been changed to 9/16"...The trackbar bolts started to tighten at about 80 ft-lbs and now they are at 120 ft-lbs or more. I did the ball joint test with a jack/shovel (like the video) and both sides have about 1/16" of play. I checked everything else and it all seems good per the list. Just took it on a test drive and the wobble/shimmy was much less but still there, slightly... but it went away after driving about 5 minutes or less on the usual highway.

Based on reading all your posts in this this thread, I guess I'll go get new ball joints installed... The "play" is much less than in your video but still there is some and I can hear the "clunk".

I am assuming the tire balance has not changed in the 3 weeks the AT tires were in storage... But, there was no wobble/shimmy in Az with the MT tires! So maybe I need to get the tires balanced...

Thanks again!
__________________
Geezer from NM
"Wisdom isn't cheap; we pay for it with pain
taoshum is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 12:58 PM   #269
planman
Thanks to all Mod erators
 
planman's Avatar
2007 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by taoshum
Planman, Thanks for all your work and posts on this shimmy/DW topic!!! Here's a story you might comment on... Two weeks ago, just got home after some off-road trails in SW Az and towing the '08 Jeep 700 miles from Az to home. I immediately changed the tires from the MT tread to the AT tread for DD routine. After a few days on the AT tires, I noticed a slight wobble on smooth highways at about 55-60 mph...over the next few days, noticed that it only happens on the way to work, when the temperature is about 20 deg... while on the way home, no wobble... temp is about 60 deg. The next day, on the way to work, it started up again, so I slowed down and put it in 4WD-Hi, went back to 60 mph and no wobble, no shimmy, nothing, all normal. Did this for about 30 seconds, then shifted back to 2WD, still no wobble/shimmy. Next day, going to work, same shimmy/wobble. That night I found this thread and your video/checklist and this morning I went through the checklist. BTW, odo is at 39,000 miles. I /checked/put the correct torque on all the bolts, they had already been changed to 9/16"...The trackbar bolts started to tighten at about 80 ft-lbs and now they are at 120 ft-lbs or more. I did the ball joint test with a jack/shovel (like the video) and both sides have about 1/16" of play. I checked everything else and it all seems good per the list. Just took it on a test drive and the wobble/shimmy was much less but still there, slightly... but it went away after driving about 5 minutes or less on the usual highway. Based on reading all your posts in this this thread, I guess I'll go get new ball joints installed... The "play" is much less than in your video but still there is some and I can hear the "clunk". I am assuming the tire balance has not changed in the 3 weeks the AT tires were in storage... But, there was no wobble/shimmy in Az with the MT tires! So maybe I need to get the tires balanced... Thanks again!
Is it possible that you had an impact to your tie rod while you were wheeling? If so, the toe spec of your alignment could be off.
planman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-01-2014, 01:25 PM   #270
taoshum
Registered User
2008 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Taos, New Mexico
Posts: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Is it possible that you had an impact to your tie rod while you were wheeling? If so, the toe spec of your alignment could be off.
They "look" OK but I'll get it aligned if I do the ball joints...

here's some pics:
jeep-pics-1-.jpg

jeep-pics-2-.jpg

jeep-pics-3-.jpg

__________________
Geezer from NM
"Wisdom isn't cheap; we pay for it with pain
taoshum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
death wobble , JK Wrangler , shake , shaking , steering shimmy , wheel shimmy , wrangler
Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.