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Unread 03-20-2013, 07:41 AM   #226
rebelbowtie
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So I purchased an 00 XJ with a cobbled together RCX lift and serious death wobble problem that made it not drivable. It had stock UCA that were bent and one of the bushings shot. I replaced the UCA with Rusty HD flex control arms and changed the bushings and that improved things and it's now drivable. However I still have DW if I hit a large bump at highway speeds (60+mph) with only one tire. If bumps are hit head on with both sides making contact no shakes.

I went through the check list I found in this thread and everything seemed to check out ok with the exception of a broken passenger side shock (shock bushing is bad and the body has a large dent in it) so I ordered some Bilstein 5100's to replace then.

I am skeptical that a simple shock can throw this thing into such violent DW event and wondering if you guys think I missed something.

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Unread 03-20-2013, 11:03 AM   #227
PhatJK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbowtie View Post
So I purchased an 00 XJ with a cobbled together RCX lift and serious death wobble problem that made it not drivable. It had stock UCA that were bent and one of the bushings shot. I replaced the UCA with Rusty HD flex control arms and changed the bushings and that improved things and it's now drivable. However I still have DW if I hit a large bump at highway speeds (60+mph) with only one tire. If bumps are hit head on with both sides making contact no shakes.

I went through the check list I found in this thread and everything seemed to check out ok with the exception of a broken passenger side shock (shock bushing is bad and the body has a large dent in it) so I ordered some Bilstein 5100's to replace then.

I am skeptical that a simple shock can throw this thing into such violent DW event and wondering if you guys think I missed something.
I think Planman checklist is great for a decent setup vehicles that have normal wear and tear. It sounds like your XJ has serious collision issues that were never fixed and probably contributed to your DW woes.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 01:48 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbowtie View Post
So I purchased an 00 XJ with a cobbled together RCX lift and serious death wobble problem that made it not drivable. It had stock UCA that were bent and one of the bushings shot. I replaced the UCA with Rusty HD flex control arms and changed the bushings and that improved things and it's now drivable. However I still have DW if I hit a large bump at highway speeds (60+mph) with only one tire. If bumps are hit head on with both sides making contact no shakes.

I went through the check list I found in this thread and everything seemed to check out ok with the exception of a broken passenger side shock (shock bushing is bad and the body has a large dent in it) so I ordered some Bilstein 5100's to replace then.

I am skeptical that a simple shock can throw this thing into such violent DW event and wondering if you guys think I missed something.
It is more than just the single shock.

You may need to pull components off (one at a time) to inspect bracket bolt holes and bracket welds--particularly the trackbar.

Did you check the ball joints?

Were the front upper axle side bushings worn or separated (the ones in the axle housing)?

Were the upper control arm brackets bent, welds cracked, or bolt holes ovaled out?

What about the drag link and tie rod ends, and the steering box (notoriously weak in stock form for lifted XJs with larger tires)?
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Unread 03-21-2013, 10:20 AM   #229
rebelbowtie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman

It is more than just the single shock.

You may need to pull components off (one at a time) to inspect bracket bolt holes and bracket welds--particularly the trackbar.

Did you check the ball joints?

Were the front upper axle side bushings worn or separated (the ones in the axle housing)?

Were the upper control arm brackets bent, welds cracked, or bolt holes ovaled out?

What about the drag link and tie rod ends, and the steering box (notoriously weak in stock form for lifted XJs with larger tires)?
The ball joints are newish within 6 months, the tie rod ends look old but don't appear damaged and there isn't any play so I haven't changed them out yet. Although the stock tie rod seems pretty flimsy as I can make it bend by hand, the drag link however looks like it may be adjusted since the rod end on it looks like its under a bind (I can't feel it bind or hear it popping though) but the alignment shop of course probably over looked this.

The UCA on the driver side was bent out from under neath, it looks like something struck it off road I am guessing and bent the Fischer Price grade stamped steel and yes they (the axle side bushings) were worn so they were replaced when I installed the new control arms.

The track bar is some cheap aftermarket adjustable one probably came with the RCX lift and the stock bolt has been replaced with a larger one. It looks like the PO ran the stock track bar for awhile though because of the hole drilled to the port side of the track bar mount.


I should note that the DW is very particular in what bumps set it off. I have driven from Mobile to NOLA about 3 times (300 miles round trip each time) in one week and only experienced 2 DW incidents.
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He's a pluck as they come, or ever can;
He's a hero born and bred, but it hasn't swelled his head,
For he's just the U.S. Government's hired man.
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Unread 03-21-2013, 10:33 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbowtie

The ball joints are newish within 6 months, the tie rod ends look old but don't appear damaged and there isn't any play so I haven't changed them out yet. Although the stock tie rod seems pretty flimsy as I can make it bend by hand, the drag link however looks like it may be adjusted since the rod end on it looks like its under a bind (I can't feel it bind or hear it popping though) but the alignment shop of course probably over looked this.

The UCA on the driver side was bent out from under neath, it looks like something struck it off road I am guessing and bent the Fischer Price grade stamped steel and yes they (the axle side bushings) were worn so they were replaced when I installed the new control arms.

The track bar is some cheap aftermarket adjustable one probably came with the RCX lift and the stock bolt has been replaced with a larger one. It looks like the PO ran the stock track bar for awhile though because of the hole drilled to the port side of the track bar mount.

I should note that the DW is very particular in what bumps set it off. I have driven from Mobile to NOLA about 3 times (300 miles round trip each time) in one week and only experienced 2 DW incidents.
You need to watch the 2nd video in the 1st post of this thread.
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Unread 03-21-2013, 10:49 AM   #231
rebelbowtie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman

You need to watch the 2nd video in the 1st post of this thread.
Ok so I didn't think to saw the steering wheel back and forth so quickly, I had been moving it slowly from lock to lock. I will go out and inspect some things using your methods.
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Unread 03-30-2013, 11:55 PM   #232
sherman07
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Something I've done is spry paint all my bolts and nuts this way you can sew if any wear starts. You will notice a shinny ring starting around the bold or nut is there is any wear. Just an easy way to keep an eye on things.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 01:44 AM   #233
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hi guys. im expecting a bit of just do what the first post says, however at the moment i have no friends who can come round and move the steering wheel for me.

ive got an 07 2dr rubicon with 2.5" rockkrawler springs, aev front control arm drop brackets, bilstein 5100s but dont have trackbar brackets (rear teraflex is on its way)

ive got some wobbles that come in at 90km/h and seem to dissipear by 100kmh and arent there below about 85km/h either. i've gone around and just physically tightened everything i can but so far is without help.

i have noticed though that its become a pretty bumpy ride all round. hitting any sort of bump at 40km/h + throws me around in the cabin more than it used to. i have had the lift kit in for about 2 months and only started having this issue about a week ago.

anyone have an idea of where i can look by myself?

cheers
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Unread 05-17-2013, 01:48 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_been
hi guys. im expecting a bit of just do what the first post says, however at the moment i have no friends who can come round and move the steering wheel for me.

ive got an 07 2dr rubicon with 2.5" rockkrawler springs, aev front control arm drop brackets, bilstein 5100s but dont have trackbar brackets (rear teraflex is on its way)

ive got some wobbles that come in at 90km/h and seem to dissipear by 100kmh and arent there below about 85km/h either. i've gone around and just physically tightened everything i can but so far is without help.

i have noticed though that its become a pretty bumpy ride all round. hitting any sort of bump at 40km/h + throws me around in the cabin more than it used to. i have had the lift kit in for about 2 months and only started having this issue about a week ago.

anyone have an idea of where i can look by myself?

cheers
Do you have more than 32psi in your tires?

If you have aftermarket wheels or wheel spacers, did you remove the lug retainer clips?

Speed dependent wobbles are nearly always tire/wheel related--out of balance, bent wheels, failure to torque non-hubcentric wheels in a star pattern, a bad tire, etc.

You absolutely must get longer front swaybar links if you ever use the electronic Rubi swaybar disconnect. With longer rear shocks, you absolutely must either use rear brakeline drop brackets or run longer rear brakelines.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 01:57 PM   #235
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Also, your weird side to side sway would be aggravated by too short swaybar links.

If you did not loosen every control arm and trackbar bolt, and then wait to retorque all bolts until the full weight of the jeep was back on the ground at the new ride height, your rubber bushings are twisted/binding/pre-loaded to the wrong ride height. This will result in a jittery ride and pre-mature bushing failure.
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Unread 05-17-2013, 08:13 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Do you have more than 32psi in your tires?

If you have aftermarket wheels or wheel spacers, did you remove the lug retainer clips?

Speed dependent wobbles are nearly always tire/wheel related--out of balance, bent wheels, failure to torque non-hubcentric wheels in a star pattern, a bad tire, etc.

You absolutely must get longer front swaybar links if you ever use the electronic Rubi swaybar disconnect. With longer rear shocks, you absolutely must either use rear brakeline drop brackets or run longer rear brakelines.
hey mate thanks for this.
i just noticed it because i came back on to say i fixed the problem. went through planmans guide and just tightened everything. no good everything was pretty tight. thought i don't think its a wheel inbalance because i would expect that to be there at all speeds but hell ill rotate fronts to rear anyway. and BAM fixed! so needless to say i still have an out of balance tyre onthe back i need to get balanced but im glad its not loose bolts. so well done for the correct diagnosis mate!

also as an addition, i forgot to mention with my lift kit i bought the teraflex 2.5" spring lift kit, swapped out the springs for rockkrawler springs and shocks for bilsteins.

so my front swaybar links are the factory rear ones and i have brake like relaocation brackets from the tf kit.

the only reason i dont have a rear trackbar bracket is because they sent me one for a LHD not RHD so it's currently in transit.

thanks for your help guys greatly appreciated.

on another sidenote, do you guys loctite (threadlock) your suspension bolts? i noticed they're not from factory but im thinking of redoing them all with threadlock to try and prevent any premature loosening.

ta
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Unread 05-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Also, your weird side to side sway would be aggravated by too short swaybar links.

If you did not loosen every control arm and trackbar bolt, and then wait to retorque all bolts until the full weight of the jeep was back on the ground at the new ride height, your rubber bushings are twisted/binding/pre-loaded to the wrong ride height. This will result in a jittery ride and pre-mature bushing failure.
yep did all of these. ill have to do some more research into my jittery ride i think. i might undo all of the bushing bolts and redo them in case somethings not right.

thanks guys!
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Unread 05-20-2013, 06:25 AM   #238
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also i dont know if im dreaming this because i can't always replicate it. but it seems sometimes if im under load e.g part throttle in gear and back off the throttle and depress the clutch to change up gear, the car seems to veer a little bit to the drivers side. would this be typical of non loosened control arm bushes? i'm pretty sure i did do it hoever i put aev drop brackets in later so may have missed the chassis side bushes when i put them in.
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Unread 05-20-2013, 06:43 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_been View Post
do you guys loctite (threadlock) your suspension bolts? i noticed they're not from factory but im thinking of redoing them all with threadlock to try and prevent any premature loosening.
Curious myself....

I use Loctite red on the drivetrain (driveshafts etc), and I normally use anti-seize or Permatex blue on armor, etc...
suspension falls in the middle somewhere!

(PS- I rotated my tires when I had DW, too, and it "fixed" it short term. I've learned to keep them balanced and rotated!)
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Unread 05-21-2013, 12:44 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lima_been View Post
also i dont know if im dreaming this because i can't always replicate it. but it seems sometimes if im under load e.g part throttle in gear and back off the throttle and depress the clutch to change up gear, the car seems to veer a little bit to the drivers side. would this be typical of non loosened control arm bushes? i'm pretty sure i did do it hoever i put aev drop brackets in later so may have missed the chassis side bushes when i put them in.
Could also be the trackbar drop brackets you haven't put in yet? (seems possible)
Or the uneven load placed on the anti-swaybars due to the too-short links? (maybe less likely, but still possible perhaps?)

And do you have a locker or limited-slip in the rear? I don't remember what the option was for your year, but if an electric locker, could it be engaged?
It sounds like a very mild version of what can happen with a Detroit Locker, so maybe the factory locker/limited-slip is the culprit?
Probably less likely than the first two, but thought I'd mention it anyway just in case.

Then again, it could just be as you and planman suggested about any uneven loads on the control arms.

Just throwing out total guesses of course. But figured another 2 worth of useless suggestions would get the creative detective juices flowing.

Best of luck!

Paul
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