[new22003]

Warning Rant ahead.

I hate dealing with all car dealers. I have only had one good experience with one, a locally owned Ford dealer. Then they were bought by a nation wide dealer chain and now they are horrible as well.

I am in the market for a new Jeep Wrangler (my first jeep) and I walked in to one of our local Jeep dealers and made my offer. I know the invoice; I have pricing from some places on the net, etc. I didn’t expect to get it as cheap as those places I added in the cost of airfare and or driving/shipping in my offer to make things equal. I told them to think it over and I would be back the next day.

The next day came back with a counter offer $3000 more than my offer. We haggled for over an hour, something I really didn’t want to do but I liked the Jeep they had. They came down only $500 in that hour. I finally said shoot me your best offer if its good ill take it if not I’m walking. They said $2500 over my offer was the best they could do. They said that’s as low as they can go, it was “bottom dollar price” and “these wranglers are hot”. I then got up and was literally at the door and suddenly they can discount it even more!?!?!?! I told them it was too late. This drives me nuts they basically lied to me by telling me it was your absolute lowest price and then trying to shoot me a better offer when I am leaving.

I dealt in good faith, had financing lined up and a nice down payment, and I will own a Jeep but I hate going through the whole process. I left the dealer a decent amount of profit over invoice and holdback, gave them a chance for a reasonable counter offer. Told them I would walk and give me their best offer but hey couldn’t do that.

I don’t need this car today or even this week and there are several other jeep dealers in my town. Ill let you guys know if I am successful.

[plickerman]

Tips and experiences are great. Usually, I don't like dealing with dealers too much myself; however, every once in a few years it must be done.

Does anyone have any specifics in as far as argumentative statements one can throw at a dealer? I know if a dealer doesn't deal, then it doesn't; however there are mentions of meeting quotas, kickbacks, voume incentives....etc.

Anyone familiar with this?

[new22003]

Originally Posted by plickerman

Tips and experiences are great. Usually, I don't like dealing with dealers too much myself; however, every once in a few years it must be done.

Does anyone have any specifics in as far as argumentative statements one can throw at a dealer? I know if a dealer doesn't deal, then it doesn't; however there are mentions of meeting quotas, kickbacks, voume incentives....etc.

Anyone familiar with this?

I’m no expert but I always get the car for the price I want. Im sure some will disagree. Below are just my personal experiences and observations.

Here are a few things I do:

1. Read up on the vehicle: Know the specs, invoice, dealer holdback, msrp, etc. there are several online sites for this.
2. Compare: Look online, eBay, etc and see what the big dealers are getting for their jeeps. You usually can’t get these prices at a local dealer most of the time but figure that price plus your trouble (airfare or shipping plus time) as a starting place. The local dealer should be able to come within a few hundred of that.
3. Don’t be in a hurry: This is what gets a lot of people in trouble. I am amazed at how many people go to the dealer and buy the first time there. Most people get very excited about car buying, rightfully so, but in the excitement you can get taken advantage of. Most of us can afford to wait 2 months extra to find the right vehicle. The dealer will make it seem like it has to be done today. He will play on your desire and love of the vehicle. Don’t worry if the dealer only has the perfect vehicle, if he sells it there will likely be an exact replacement coming soon or at another dealer because he want to get in what sells.
4. Get pre-approved ahead of time: Even if you don’t use it, it shows you are serious to the dealer and gives you confidence. It lets you negotiate the price without the dealer trying to get you into the office for financial paperwork. Many dealers don’t want to seriously talk price until you have filled out some kind of financial paperwork. I always go to my credit union and get a pre approved loan from them. You don’t have to use it; as a matter of fact I never used their financing for a brand new vehicle since the manufacturers usually offer much better rates. But it allows me to be in control at the dealer. Once the price is agreed upon you can then fill out a loan app at the dealer.
5. Watch out for excessive extra fees like dealer prep, unwanted warranties, etc. Dealers try and pad the bottom line with a lot of unnecessary “extras” that can often be taken off. There will almost always be some amount of dealer prep but you can cut most costs down. Tell them your price includes all the prep and extras.
6. Be confident: This sounds silly I know. Some people have the urge to “be taken seriously” by car dealers. Dealers put you in this position on purpose. People are prideful about finances and this can make some feel the need to prove they can afford the car. By knowing your credit score, finances, and being pre approved the dealer has to prove to YOU that they are worth it. Always be in control and tell them what you want and what they are going to do for you.
7. Don’t be afraid to walk away. If you don’t get your price walk out the door. If the dealer was decent enough to you tell them to call you if they can give you the price you want. Be sure and let them know you are going to talk to other dealers. I have had dealers call me as much as 2 weeks later with the price I wanted.
8. Know exactly what you want. If you just want a $20,000 “X” model don’t be “talked” into a $30,000 Rubicon.

[sardog12]

Originally Posted by Cra$hMoney

It seems to be the norm that we have to eat the $ for a deposit if we dont fufill our obligation to them to get the vehicle they ordered for us.

so you may be better just waiting till the one you signed on comes in.

But if they change ANYTHING about the order or price or anything else, this should void the obligation and Kellyoferin should be able to get the full deposit back.

[4EverLSU]

Originally Posted by Kellyoferin

Anybody know the policy on dealer deposits?

I left a $1000 deposit with order. If I can find another TJ that meets my requirements elsewhere, do I have to eat the deposit, or is dealer required to give it back if I cancel order, still in BG status?

I had to put a $500 deposit to order mine. The salesman told me that I'm under no obligation to buy the vehicle when it comes in. I can look at it and say "nope, I change my mind", and I get my money back. He explained it this way:

Look...we're only allotted so many Wranglers on the lot. So, when you order one, it doesn't count against our quota. It's a Wrangler, it's GONNA' sell, whether you take it or not...and if you don't, that just gives us one more Jeep on the lot that we get to sell.

The guy's a friend of a buddy, and they're both in the same 4x4 club, so I have no reason to think he's lying to me.

[plickerman]

I’m no expert but I always get the car for the price I want. Im sure some will disagree. Below are just my personal experiences and observations.

Here are a few things I do:

All good points to keep in mind, particularly in the excitement of new vehicle acquisition....thanks!

[AkureiYJ]

You guys think it's ahrd with a Jeep? you seen the dealer gougin on the Shelby GT500 Mustang? $43K msrp, dealers were gettin up to $80K....
Now you can get it at $15K over invoice. Granted they are a lower production vehicle than a Jeep, but still....
But it sounds like the majority of you guys know how to not get porked on these things!

[plickerman]

However, I can't afford one of those even at MSRP, so good don't worry too much about it.......lol.

[redrom01]

Originally Posted by AkureiYJ

You guys think it's ahrd with a Jeep? you seen the dealer gougin on the Shelby GT500 Mustang? $43K msrp, dealers were gettin up to $80K....
Now you can get it at $15K over invoice. Granted they are a lower production vehicle than a Jeep, but still....
But it sounds like the majority of you guys know how to not get porked on these things!

Thats a crazy mark-up. I think that if you really want the new JK you just have to do the reseach, and stay within your price range.

[Whaler22]

Originally Posted by egocogitovolo

Same kind of experience, here. I have a trade in so I am forced to work with the locals.

Actually, you don't. That's a very common misconception too...

Contrary to popular belief, dealers seldom "step up" on a trade. The guy setting the price on the trade is usually the used car buyer. He'll set the price based upon the book value, the numbers he sees on the proprietary computer program showing the prices recently paid at auction for similar vehicles, and the bids he gets from other dealers. If you're trading a Toyota at a Jeep dealer, they will always call the Toyota dealer and ask for a bid. If the Toyota dealer says he'll pay $12,000 for the trade the used guy will often report a value of only $11,000 to the new side of the business.

The used buyer wants to pay ACV (Actual Vash Value) - nothing more, because anything more cuts into his profit margin, and his part of the business is usually evaluated separately.

That's good news, really, as it means you can shop your trade anywhere you wish. As long as you're not in a "negative equity" position (which required some finance-slight-of-hand to fix) you are likely to actually come out better if you shop your used car around yourself. I've sold my last three trades that way, and over the three of them I saved I saved thousands of dollars.

Of course, the guys on the new side of the dealership will take the "ACV" bid and inflate it using money from the profit in the new vehicle to make the buyer feel like he's getting retail for his trade. That's the game - sliding the profit back and forth until teh buyer thinks he's pulling one over on the dealer.

You NEVER have to pay MSRP on a regular production American vehicle. Period. If you want a Rubicon, you can go to a reputable dealer and order one for invoice plus $XXX. You just need to be prepared to walk if they will not do what you're willing to do. Sell your rig and buy the rig you want over the phone. You can ride the train to the selling dealer. Heck, C'mon down to Oregon!

[egocogitovolo]

Originally Posted by Whaler22

Actually, you don't. That's a very common misconception too...

Contrary to popular belief, dealers seldom "step up" on a trade. The guy setting the price on the trade is usually the used car buyer. He'll set the price based upon the book value, the numbers he sees on the proprietary computer program showing the prices recently paid at auction for similar vehicles, and the bids he gets from other dealers. If you're trading a Toyota at a Jeep dealer, they will always call the Toyota dealer and ask for a bid. If the Toyota dealer says he'll pay $12,000 for the trade the used guy will often report a value of only $11,000 to the new side of the business.

The used buyer wants to pay ACV (Actual Vash Value) - nothing more, because anything more cuts into his profit margin, and his part of the business is usually evaluated separately.

That's good news, really, as it means you can shop your trade anywhere you wish. As long as you're not in a "negative equity" position (which required some finance-slight-of-hand to fix) you are likely to actually come out better if you shop your used car around yourself. I've sold my last three trades that way, and over the three of them I saved I saved thousands of dollars.

Of course, the guys on the new side of the dealership will take the "ACV" bid and inflate it using money from the profit in the new vehicle to make the buyer feel like he's getting retail for his trade. That's the game - sliding the profit back and forth until teh buyer thinks he's pulling one over on the dealer.

You NEVER have to pay MSRP on a regular production American vehicle. Period. If you want a Rubicon, you can go to a reputable dealer and order one for invoice plus $XXX. You just need to be prepared to walk if they will not do what you're willing to do. Sell your rig and buy the rig you want over the phone. You can ride the train to the selling dealer. Heck, C'mon down to Oregon!

Whaler22 - Thanks for the info it was useful and I came to somewhat the same conclusion while shopping, it seems that everyone I went to gave me either the same price or a drastically deflated price. As always some dealers are out to make a buck no matter who they screw, but most just called around to the other Dodge dealers in the area and asked for buy bids. Unfortunately after all the shopping my wife and I (read wife pause and then move on) decided we were going with a more family oriented vehicle and the 06 Commander with the huge discounts going on right now, was too good to pass up. I love the Rubicon I had on order but I got a 06 Commander Limited fully loaded for less then my Rubicon order price. I guess some times you have to decide on the family vehicle first and then get the fun one next. I will be lurking over in the Commander forums mostly from now on, but I will have to check in over here every once an a while to get my JK fix.

[Windwalker]

I paid $165 over invoice...thought that was pretty good.

[Whaler22]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

I paid $165 over invoice...thought that was pretty good.

Which would be about 10% BELOW the Maroni price (factory sticker) - and that's a great price on a vehicle with no trade and no rebates or other factory incentives.

[caliwankers]

Originally Posted by Whaler22

Contrary to popular belief, dealers seldom "step up" on a trade. The guy setting the price on the trade is usually the used car buyer. He'll set the price based upon the book value, the numbers he sees on the proprietary computer program showing the prices recently paid at auction for similar vehicles, and the bids he gets from other dealers. If you're trading a Toyota at a Jeep dealer, they will always call the Toyota dealer and ask for a bid. If the Toyota dealer says he'll pay $12,000 for the trade the used guy will often report a value of only $11,000 to the new side of the business.

The used buyer wants to pay ACV (Actual Vash Value) - nothing more, because anything more cuts into his profit margin, and his part of the business is usually evaluated separately.

That's good news, really, as it means you can shop your trade anywhere you wish. As long as you're not in a "negative equity" position (which required some finance-slight-of-hand to fix) you are likely to actually come out better if you shop your used car around yourself. I've sold my last three trades that way, and over the three of them I saved I saved thousands of dollars.

Of course, the guys on the new side of the dealership will take the "ACV" bid and inflate it using money from the profit in the new vehicle to make the buyer feel like he's getting retail for his trade. That's the game - sliding the profit back and forth until teh buyer thinks he's pulling one over on the dealer.

I am not sure if things are different here in Canada then in the States but there are a couple of advantages to trading a vehicle in that have affected my decision a couple of times in the past.

In Canada, we have 2 taxes that are applicable on any new car purchase. First we have a Provincial Sales Tax, which in Ontario is 8%. Second we have the GST (Goods and Services Tax).. This is a Federal Tax and is 6%. Both Taxes combined are 14% total. If you trade a vehicle in when purchasing a new car, the key number is neither the MSRP, nor the trade in value but the difference. Figure out what you want to PAY for the car, then figure out what you feel the wholesale value for your trade is. Present these numbers and try, obviously, to get as close as possible to what the difference works out to be. The 14% tax is charged on this difference. So, by trading your vehicle in to your dealer, you are saving 14% on effectively, the value of your trade. Dealerships will always try to treat the transactions as one but do your best to treat them separately as that will enable you to attain each of your numbers individually.

I have found that this beats the crap out of trying to sell your vehicle privately. If you have a few dealerships in close proximity, it still enables you to get competing numbers.

That's my 2 cents worth.

Cali

[kaffeene]

Originally Posted by Skeezer

I went through a local dealership that I buy all my vehicles from and they totally hooked me up. $ 800.00 below invoice. It took forever to get it in, but they ended up standing by our original agreement.

So what dealer in So. Jersey did you go to?