Dana 44d rubi long side fractures. - JeepForum.com

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post #1 of 28 Old 02-16-2017, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Dana 44d rubi long side fractures.

Just to start with not my jeep but surprised it is not. though i only run 35s no truss no sleeves no added Cs and i run 4s just about exclusively. Driving techniques vary and might have more to do with it than anything but moving on. This is the first case fist hand for me seeing it not reading about it and knowing how it happened not one of threads. "ran it into a ditch", Hit a tree, rock or Unicorn. those are accidents that even with all the added things its going to be Fubar anyway.

This last week our club since its full on season to wheel here. trails tend to divide by hardness those that you see and dont. here in Az hard or hard core starts at about the middle ground of the trail system of ratings. Az it is 1-5. 3.5 is the break. at 4 its hard core since things break and damage is all but assured. The last 4 runs this week of the harder core group we have had 2 tjs break a rear axles and two tires shredded. No flops so it was normal stuff really. I dont count body damage as its the nature of anything 3.5 and up. dont really hurt anything that needs to be fixed or dragged out.

But one jeep on a easy trail 2+. Now he has ran some harder trails in the past. More the 3.5 tops kinda of jeep. a 4 door rubi on 37s, with acrtic trussed. broke the long side tube right in the center of the spring mounting perch bracket. the bracket held it long enough to get him home but with DW. What i am thinking spatially. That running a truss that ends at that bracket and he has the Cs reinforced as well. It would put all the strain right there. considering the circular break never touched any welds of the factory spring perch bracket. Fatigue issue. not related to welding issues. factory or other. He did not have sleeves, main issue then.(thoughts)

Do to this and since reliability to me is important. I dont mind helping other jeepers on the trail just hate working on my junk on the trail. I am going to just add sleeves and Cs. Ordered them today and i will install them. 110$ sleeves another 65$ for cs is nothing really. Not looking forward to the R&R of the d44. But i am not going to do the welding with it under the jeep. just to old for that and you can not do too good of a job like that any way. since the sleeves add what is claimed like 50+% stronger seems enough even for future 37s. Not a fan truss unless it bridges the center anyway and welding to the center section is problematic, cs are forged casting steal so they tend to weld up a bit better.


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post #2 of 28 Old 02-16-2017, 01:12 PM
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I agree - the problem with reinforcing the ends is the stress moves to the next weakest link... doing the ends without a sleeve or truss is asking for this kind of failure (even if its not immediate - over time the little stress risers join hands, and riot chanting "not my axle tube"... truss ???? not sure its TOTALLY needed if properly sleeved with a series of drilled and spot welded points...

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a
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post #3 of 28 Old 02-16-2017, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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I agree - the problem with reinforcing the ends is the stress moves to the next weakest link... doing the ends without a sleeve or truss is asking for this kind of failure (even if its not immediate - over time the little stress risers join hands, and riot chanting "not my axle tube"... truss ???? not sure its TOTALLY needed if properly sleeved with a series of drilled and spot welded points...
my thinking as well.

All the trusses do this too. excepting the ones that bridge the center and go through and remove stock springs perch. But the only ones i know like that are custom and all are coil over 4 linked and more buggy than heep or pure buggy. with all the trails this heep has seen since new. i am thinking that since its stock it spreads the strain over the whole tube. not concentrated it to a 4" span. near the end where effects are greater. so on to the taking it apart so i can set it on the stands and weld this thing up, once the parts get here. means no heep too,getting to old for this to be a do it in a day thing.....

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post #4 of 28 Old 02-16-2017, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc
Just to start with not my jeep but surprised it is not. though i only run 35s no truss no sleeves no added Cs and i run 4s just about exclusively. Driving techniques vary and might have more to do with it than anything but moving on. This is the first case fist hand for me seeing it not reading about it and knowing how it happened not one of threads. "ran it into a ditch", Hit a tree, rock or Unicorn. those are accidents that even with all the added things its going to be Fubar anyway. This last week our club since its full on season to wheel here. trails tend to divide by hardness those that you see and dont. here in Az hard or hard core starts at about the middle ground of the trail system of ratings. Az it is 1-5. 3.5 is the break. at 4 its hard core since things break and damage is all but assured. The last 4 runs this week of the harder core group we have had 2 tjs break a rear axles and two tires shredded. No flops so it was normal stuff really. I dont count body damage as its the nature of anything 3.5 and up. dont really hurt anything that needs to be fixed or dragged out. But one jeep on a easy trail 2+. Now he has ran some harder trails in the past. More the 3.5 tops kinda of jeep. a 4 door rubi on 37s, with acrtic trussed. broke the long side tube right in the center of the spring mounting perch bracket. the bracket held it long enough to get him home but with DW. What i am thinking spatially. That running a truss that ends at that bracket and he has the Cs reinforced as well. It would put all the strain right there. considering the circular break never touched any welds of the factory spring perch bracket. Fatigue issue. not related to welding issues. factory or other. He did not have sleeves, main issue then.(thoughts) Do to this and since reliability to me is important. I dont mind helping other jeepers on the trail just hate working on my junk on the trail. I am going to just add sleeves and Cs. Ordered them today and i will install them. 110$ sleeves another 65$ for cs is nothing really. Not looking forward to the R&R of the d44. But i am not going to do the welding with it under the jeep. just to old for that and you can not do too good of a job like that any way. since the sleeves add what is claimed like 50+% stronger seems enough even for future 37s. Not a fan truss unless it bridges the center anyway and welding to the center section is problematic, cs are forged casting steal so they tend to weld up a bit better.
I totally agree .. Without additional center section support fractured gears from gear deflection is also a concern.

^^Jeff^^
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post #5 of 28 Old 02-17-2017, 09:52 AM
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I totally agree .. Without additional center section support fractured gears from gear deflection is also a concern.
And barrel worn axle splines (and axle breaks) even if not all the way to gear explosion...

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
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post #6 of 28 Old 02-17-2017, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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If i had to judge from real life use axle assemblies . From things that go pop. #1 axles, by far and wide(lost count). From there its not even a close second. Lockers issues very few we had a ARB explode in a d30 on a 4.5. on 35s. and the wont engage type issues. but tube issues.few too, the Jk and few years back a d60 pulled the tube out of the housing. That was from what i could see, poorly welded to the casting( professional built by a leading company) , years of abuse too.

But we dont run obstacles like they king of the hammers. No high speed desert dakar and jeep jumping.
I wont count the people that come out with worn out parts IE bad tres and U joints. that were well past the "should have been done before you came out".

Off topic:
looks like rain today. been a wet year for a desert. Man I hope the snow up in the Tahoe area melts before we get there in Aug. I will bet the Dusy opens late this year. So anyone making planes to run anything out there this year needs to watch the schedule of events/opening date as they may change if the snow pack stick around to long.

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post #7 of 28 Old 02-17-2017, 01:09 PM
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I kinda hope SOME of the snow is still up there for the rubicon in Aug - Jamboree (8/4-8/6).

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-17-2017, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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we plan to be on Fordyce around 2nd week of aug right after Sierra Treks jam. then IF there is anything left in the tank run the Con back wards Tahoe to Wentworth. There are two burried jeeps right now on the tahoe side just few miles past the staging area on the rubicon. They gave up trying to get them out, waiting for the thaw. Last year we ran the Rubicon at the end of June and it was very wet. water was running down cadillac hill.

at Elis spilway they had it wide open. Loon was 99% full.
https://www.facebook.com/mac.ruiz.98...1621420185951/

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post #9 of 28 Old 02-20-2017, 03:02 PM
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It is incredibly rare for c to break. Even a 30. un modified, The C will stay put and bend the tube. Lots of instances of bent tubes. The only reason to do the C, is because the truss spans C to C, there isnt a place that will bend. The other thing I would ask in this case.... who put the truss on? Did the welder do it properly? Did the tube get too hot? Lots of factors here.

If you sleeve, and nothing else, you'll guarantee the tube will break at the housing. Weak spot. No flexability and no other place to bend. Dont even need to C guss. Itll break there. Sleeve and truss should be bullet proof. The truss should span C to C - no not all of them do. Not all steel is the same. only reason to guss.... The Cs are strong and should be linked all the way across.... trusted welder - most important.

Put your sleeves in the freezer for a few days before trying to put them in.

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post #10 of 28 Old 02-20-2017, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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You cant break a C really its a forged casting so it may bend twist. Even those that get bent MOSTLY are from a wreck or again people that run trails like they are winning the Hammers. High speed stuff where you get off the ground, foot to floor.< i am not one of those. Me i run hard stuff only but slow, slow like turtles give me the finger going by. with as much finesse as i can muster. I am not the "Hold my beer bro" kind of wheeler. I am more likely to flop than break a center. To have a C to C truss is custom No one sells a kit like that for a d44 that i have found(know of one post it please) . It would mean removing the coil perches and those tend to be coil over after that in every jeep/Buggy i know. And i know many, run with hundreds of jeeps every year. maybe i will get a low truss we will see cheep artic or Synergy kit. Anyway..............

got the axle assembly out from under the heep today. F... I am getting to old for this any way the assembly is stripped down and waiting for me on jack stands, i hear it calling...hey old man were you go. need to drill the thing clean it out. Ill drop the sleeves in a freezer to night( they just came in) and maybe some time tomorrow i may have the prep done if not then the next though the old lady wont like the steal in her freezer to long. or she might serve it as dinner. might go well with BBq sauce?

.

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post #11 of 28 Old 02-20-2017, 06:39 PM
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To have a C to C truss is custom No one sells a kit like that for a d44 that i have found(know of one post it please) . It would mean removing the coil perches and those tend to be coil over after that in every jeep/Buggy i know. And i know many, run with hundreds of jeeps every year. maybe i will get a low truss we will see cheep artic or Synergy kit. Anyway..............

.
This TnT customs Truss seems to be the most complete.. https://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_part...ss_tnt_customs

^^Jeff^^
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-20-2017, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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This TnT customs Truss seems to be the most complete.. https://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_part...ss_tnt_customs
That quite the kit but. it adds up to a lot when add in all the mounts, perches, track bar and arm mounts etc. Over kill for me for d44. I dont want to get to much into a 44d. its like building a d30. at a point its better to move up. But i am not going that big ever on this jeep. would have to comp cut it to do 40s and by then you need a 60/14b and well i might as well just get a buggy if thats the case. I have trailer and tow this jeep as it is.

37s when i get my HD steering box from PSC. thats about all a 2door needs with the wheel base of 96.5 stock. Mines at 97" C to C at 4.5 lift now and i have not moved the front yet. it sits in the stock position. can be pushed maybe .5/.75 wont even get into that until i have the wheels and that new steering box. would be nice to have it at 98" but i do not think its possible. right now i have that third sheer brace for the stock sector shaft and thats in the way for sure(spring) will hit its bolts. from there its the trackbar, same thing rear ,in the end in the rear.

anyway got out there and drilled 8 holes on short side and cleaned it up. maybe tomorrow get the long side prepped. That long side worries me lot of wear on the tube hope its round still. Think i will bevel smooth/round off the new sleeves end that drives in. Just in case it catches it wont gouge in if it runs into issues and i need to use the BFH to send it. god i hope not. getting to old to do this sh...... to bad im to cheap to pay someone or to dumb

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post #13 of 28 Old 02-21-2017, 06:57 AM
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This TnT customs Truss seems to be the most complete.. https://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_part...ss_tnt_customs
No doubt that TNT makes quality stuff. Once you get all the pieces you need - looks like everything except the tube is replaced - you are up around 500 or 600 in material though, and the lift height is changed in the front. If the height of the truss is equal to stock, thats shorter than the common truss. Sounds complicated and expensive even though its definitely strong. At that point, youd be better off getting a Dynatrac with 1/2" wall tubes.

If I was buying a junkyard axle, striping it to fit.... this would be my go to. Not stock. And if you have a 30? Definitely not worth it.

http://www.barnes4wd.com/Pro-Series-...uss_p_381.html

100psi tensile, C to C (yes through the perch). http://www.barnes4wd.com/Pro-Series-...uss_p_381.html. LCA skids, trackbar bracket, truss, Cs. $270 - shipped. This is better than artec.... Around the same price. Shop quoted me 300 to put it together. 570 all in? All day.

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post #14 of 28 Old 02-21-2017, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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No doubt that TNT makes quality stuff. Once you get all the pieces you need - looks like everything except the tube is replaced - you are up around 500 or 600 in material though, and the lift height is changed in the front. If the height of the truss is equal to stock, thats shorter than the common truss. Sounds complicated and expensive even though its definitely strong. At that point, youd be better off getting a Dynatrac with 1/2" wall tubes.

If I was buying a junkyard axle, striping it to fit.... this would be my go to. Not stock. And if you have a 30? Definitely not worth it.

http://www.barnes4wd.com/Pro-Series-...uss_p_381.html

100psi tensile, C to C (yes through the perch). http://www.barnes4wd.com/Pro-Series-...uss_p_381.html. LCA skids, trackbar bracket, truss, Cs. $270 - shipped. This is better than artec.... Around the same price. Shop quoted me 300 to put it together. 570 all in? All day.
went there says 100$ and 45$ for the Cs hummmm thats a good price ..thank you Prop looks like ..score..

shorts side is finished went rather easy. Prepping long side now. here is another tip. before drilling the tubes. I wrapped a 1" dowel in a micro fiber towel(duck taped end) to clean out the tubes though they were rather clean. But then push the wrapped dowel all the way to the seal. leave it in drill the holes when you pull it out it will take the shavings out. worked very well.

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post #15 of 28 Old 02-22-2017, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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long side sleeve went in well. after drilling and pulling out the shavings with the pre placed dowel and rag. Next issue was the bit of sharp edges left in the tube from drilling through. Wrapped the dowel with enough card board to make a close fit. then wrapped that with 80 grit wet/dry sand paper. Duck tape works to hold this stuff on the dowel. This made everything smoothed out in side of that long tube. Clean again. much like cleaning a canon barrel, but rotation more than plunge. That long tube been sitting in freezer days now cold enough that bare hands stick to it. went in rather easy only needed a few taps with a brass hammer to send it home. letting that sleeve warm up inside as might not be a good idea to weld on frozen steal. so far so good. nice weather

In the PDF they say 8 holes, Min. good for the short side, but seems not near enough for the long side. went with 15. about every 10" the offset pattern. so none of the holes line up.

had images of that long side sleeve half in and stuck. heard of it happening and seen a few videos of that as well. but since it went in rather easy at least i know the old housing is straight still after all the years of wheeling this one.

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