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Unread 06-21-2014, 04:29 AM   #31
anonymousian2
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I see you have 8 spots for switches. Did you double up on a few of them on the relay box?

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Unread 07-06-2014, 11:29 PM   #32
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The fuse/relay box had space for 5 fused/relayed and 5 just fused no relay. So maybe the extra 3 switches is part of plan to use the non-relayed section, easily possible these days with small consumables likes LEDs.
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Unread 03-18-2015, 12:42 PM   #33
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Great write-up, thank you for posting it.

In your schematic it looks like your switches are interrupting ground from the relay. Is that correct? I'm interested to see your wiring for the switches, that's the only part I didn't see documented.
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Unread 03-18-2015, 08:17 PM   #34
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Great write-up, thank you for posting it.

In your schematic it looks like your switches are interrupting ground from the relay. Is that correct? I'm interested to see your wiring for the switches, that's the only part I didn't see documented.
You can switch the positive or negative side of the control circuit. Inside the relay is just a coil that you apply 12v across. You can interrupt that circuit by putting a switch on either side, positive or negative.
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Unread 03-19-2015, 02:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Sport View Post
You can switch the positive or negative side of the control circuit. Inside the relay is just a coil that you apply 12v across. You can interrupt that circuit by putting a switch on either side, positive or negative.
switching ground is far better - the wire feeds to the sw panel are not hot... and one fused hot wire can provide the relay juice for all relays.

switching pos - would require a fuse for every one! and every circuit is another hot wire coming through the firewall.

The only time I switch a relay on the hot side - is when I have an indicator light to power - the light then runs in series on the ground leg from relay to chassis...
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Unread 03-19-2015, 03:40 PM   #36
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switching ground is far better - the wire feeds to the sw panel are not hot... and one fused hot wire can provide the relay juice for all relays.

switching pos - would require a fuse for every one! and every circuit is another hot wire coming through the firewall.

The only time I switch a relay on the hot side - is when I have an indicator light to power - the light then runs in series on the ground leg from relay to chassis...
I agree 100%, jw, switching ground is better. But unfortunately we are in the minority.

When switching the ground, a short at the firewall will simply cause the accessory to turn on, rather than potentially burn your Jeep down. But switching positive can be done with one fuse and a daisy chain to all switches, being just the control circuit. And if the switch is a 2 wire switch, even with an indicator light, switching the ground will still light the switch. But on a 3 wire switch you do have to switch the positive side.
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Unread 03-19-2015, 05:45 PM   #37
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Is that what the OP did? Switched on ground? More importantly, is the OP's diagram correct?






I drew up this diagram based on his diagram above. The switches are Contura V. Is this correct?







The reason I ask is because I would think the relay panel would be much safer with the bus on the right going straight to ground.
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Unread 03-19-2015, 07:59 PM   #38
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It looks like he was switching the ground. I'm not sure what some of your designations mean on your diagram. It's really quite simple. Control circuit (pins 85 and 86) and power circuit (pins 30 and 87). Control circuit requires 12V across it to activate power circuit which is just a switch. Send power across the control circuit, power circuit turns on. Like this...
accessory-wiring-single-feed-negative.jpg  
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Unread 03-19-2015, 09:15 PM   #39
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I have three wire switches so mine are switched on the positive side
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Unread 03-19-2015, 10:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Sport View Post
It looks like he was switching the ground. I'm not sure what some of your designations mean on your diagram. It's really quite simple. Control circuit (pins 85 and 86) and power circuit (pins 30 and 87). Control circuit requires 12V across it to activate power circuit which is just a switch. Send power across the control circuit, power circuit turns on. Like this...
That definitely helps. So technically ground is through the accessory. That just makes me feel weird, not having a ground on the relay.

Hopefully this is easier to follow

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Unread 03-20-2015, 04:03 AM   #41
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That definitely helps. So technically ground is through the accessory. That just makes me feel weird, not having a ground on the relay.

[/IMG]
Yes. The power circuit is just sending the power to the accessory. The accessory is grounded to the chassis. The ground on the relay is only for the control circuit.

I'll have some time later today where I will be able to give your schematic a good look-over. If you could explain a little of what I'm looking at it would be helpful. Are those switches along the top? Are you looking to add 10 switches using (2) 5 relay boxes? Are you looking to create a fan override switch? (There is a much easier way to do that which I have done several times. You don't even need a relay if oem uses a temp sensor in the head or block.) The accessory fuses should be between the battery and pin 30. The fuses for the control circuits should be small. Where are you grabbing your switched and unswitched power and where do they come in on your document?

Meanwhile, here is the same schematic as before but with positive switching. (Note: Fuse the +12 to the switches)
accessory-wiring-single-feed-positive.jpg  
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Unread 03-22-2015, 01:37 PM   #42
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Yes. The power circuit is just sending the power to the accessory. The accessory is grounded to the chassis. The ground on the relay is only for the control circuit.
What are the benefits to either form? Which is safer? Which is easier? Sorry I'm new to 12V

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Originally Posted by 14Sport View Post
Are those switches along the top? Are you looking to add 10 switches using (2) 5 relay boxes? Are you looking to create a fan override switch? (There is a much easier way to do that which I have done several times. You don't even need a relay if oem uses a temp sensor in the head or block.)
Yes, yes, and yes, I would love an easier way for the fan!

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The accessory fuses should be between the battery and pin 30. The fuses for the control circuits should be small. Where are you grabbing your switched and unswitched power and where do they come in on your document?
I haven't decided yet, I might try to find an unused circuit on my fuse panel, or I might just tap into the Voltmeter gauge power.



Would something like this work, depending on where I grab the power from? Or should the relays always have a direct path to the battery?
accessory-wiring-single-feed-positive.jpg

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Unread 03-22-2015, 01:50 PM   #43
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What are the benefits to either form? Which is safer? Which is easier? Sorry I'm new to 12V

I'm not sure what you mean here. The accessories are NOT grounded to the relay...period. You ground the accessories to the chassis or back to the battery.

Yes, yes, and yes, I would love an easier way for the fan!

I haven't had to do any work to my 3.6 yet so I don't know how the fan is controlled. But typically, the relay for the fan has the ground for the control circuit connected to a temp sensor in the head. The sensor when it reaches temperature just grounds the temp wire to the engine. In other words, oem is just using the ground side of the control circuit to activate the fan. So what I do when I want an override while still allowing the oem side to work, is add an additional ground option that I control to the control circuit.

So I simply tap the wire going to the sensor and run it to a switch in the tub. Run the other side of the switch to ground and you can turn the fan on anytime you want but still retain full factory functioning meaning it will still turn on by itself when the factory calls for it. I usually add a LED tapped from the fan ground so I always know when the fan is running.

I haven't decided yet, I might try to find an unused circuit on my fuse panel, or I might just tap into the Voltmeter gauge power.

If you use a tapafuse in the TIPM, that is the wire that you will run into the tub to feed the switches.

Would something like this work, depending on where I grab the power from? Or should the relays always have a direct path to the battery?
No. You want to use the switched source to feed the switches, not the accessories. Where it says +12V Switched at the lower left of the schematic. You would run that wire to the first switch and then daisy chain to each additional switch. Like I did with this group of 4 relays in the pic.
domefootwellrely-001-medium-.jpg  
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Unread 03-22-2015, 06:50 PM   #44
Grewe02
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So the relays do need a constant 12V from the battery?
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Unread 03-22-2015, 08:28 PM   #45
mtnbiker995
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Originally Posted by Grewe02 View Post
So the relays do need a constant 12V from the battery?
Yes. Constant power and ground. Then one of the posts on the relay gets triggered with a few milliamps of power and the relay directs the power to the accessory through the fourth post.
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