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Unread 01-06-2013, 09:00 AM   #61
GuardBum
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A few more cents worth on this topic. I was glancing through my Jeep warranty book that came with my Rubicon. In the back there is service documentation guide that lists required services. Every listed service is 3000 miles or three months! This was in the warranty book! So I'm thinking that Jeep really wants everyone to do the service to validate warranty every 3000 miles and not as stated in the Jeep Guide that tells you how to operate the car. So I'm kind of on target with my kind of driving and I change every three months or about 2000 miles.

Regarding oil ... I use Valvoline Conventional Motor Oil 10W30 and no additives. I do top off the oil at 1000 miles of driving and it is around 1/2 quart. Once I discovered that this system uses (consumes oil through the PCV system) I've been adding oil as needed. That has been over the last 40000 miles. I don't like it, but I can live with it. As long as there is oil in the system and it is within the hatch marks on the dip stick, the engine should be just fine. When I fill up the tank I always check the oil. I monitor the change and when I hit the 1000 mile mark I top off the engine ... keep a spare quart in the garage for this reason.

Chrysler is happy with a this engine consuming oil upto 1 quart per 750 miles as stated on the technical site for mechanics.

As I stated before, I have proven that on my engine, the PCV is sucking the oil into the intake. I have slowed down the air flow through the PCV and the oil consumption has dropped to 1/2 quart per 1000. I also replaced the PCV with one from a Jeep dealer to ensure it was the proper one for the engine.

Just a few more cents ...

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Unread 01-06-2013, 11:51 AM   #62
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Replace the oil! Jjkin

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Unread 01-06-2013, 11:53 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardBum View Post
OK so what to do ... in the air intake side on the right valve cover, intalll an air restricting device. In my case, I have a Volant CAI tube ... on the nipple I threaded in a typical air chuck fitting reducing the size of the air intake side of the crankcase ventilation system. By reducing the air flow IN, the Oil Consumption OUT was cut by 1/2!
Willing to try this. Can you provide detail instructions, pic on how to?

Thanks
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Unread 01-06-2013, 12:08 PM   #64
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Air Flow Mod for oil consumption

I don't have any photos to share on this. Perhaps more explanation will help you. In the air intake hose that goes to the right side valve cover you need place an air restricting device of some type ... in my case I used a brass nipple that goes into an air tool ... such as a tire inflation tool, air ratchet, etc. The inside diameter of the brass nipple is about 1/4" in diameter which reduces the size of the inlet hole to the valve cover. When I installed mine the brass nipple screwed in nicely to the plastic air box and then I just installed the air intake hose over it!

You could also place a chunk of rubber fuel line inside the air intake hose and that would accomplish the same thing ... restricting the air flow through the engine PCV System. The reduced air flow allows the oil mist inside to settle down a bit before it gets sucked into the engine intake manifold.

I hope this will help you out.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 01:28 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardBum View Post
I don't have any photos to share on this. Perhaps more explanation will help you. In the air intake hose that goes to the right side valve cover you need place an air restricting device of some type ... in my case I used a brass nipple that goes into an air tool ... such as a tire inflation tool, air ratchet, etc. The inside diameter of the brass nipple is about 1/4" in diameter which reduces the size of the inlet hole to the valve cover. When I installed mine the brass nipple screwed in nicely to the plastic air box and then I just installed the air intake hose over it!

You could also place a chunk of rubber fuel line inside the air intake hose and that would accomplish the same thing ... restricting the air flow through the engine PCV System. The reduced air flow allows the oil mist inside to settle down a bit before it gets sucked into the engine intake manifold.

I hope this will help you out.
As I understand your comments, I would install the air restrictor here?

Did the rubber hose came off easy without tearing it up?

And, what other impact would a restricted airflow do other engine functions beside reducing engine oil consumption?

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Unread 01-06-2013, 01:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstrike View Post
As I understand your comments, I would install the air restrictor here?

Did the rubber hose came off easy without tearing it up?

And, what other impact would a restricted airflow do other engine functions beside reducing engine oil consumption?
I think he put the fitting into the side of the air box.

" When I installed mine the brass nipple screwed in nicely to the plastic air box and then I just installed the air intake hose over it!"

Here is a link to how the pcv system works:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/o...14/?highlight=
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Unread 01-06-2013, 02:58 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstrike View Post
As I understand your comments, I would install the air restrictor here?

Did the rubber hose came off easy without tearing it up?

And, what other impact would a restricted airflow do other engine functions beside reducing engine oil consumption?

That's the correct hose! Using the brass nipple as I did, I removed the other end of that hose, took the brass nipple and screwed it in to the plastic fitting from the air box. Granted I don't have the factory air box (I have a Volant CAI installed that came with the Jeep when I purchased it used), but you might be able to do the same with the factory box.

If that isn't possible, you could always get some fuel line and stick a chunk inside that hose which would accomplish the same thing ... restrict the air flow.

The hose is a little snug trying to get it off ... try twisting the hose some at the connection points. Be careful and it should come off in one piece.

Well, I'm not an engineer so I can't give you a technical read out on that ... it works for me. What I did find is that when it is not restricted the big hose on the front top of the engine (the one that comes off the left valve cover) is loaded up with fresh engine oil. The PCV is snapped into the left vavle cover and the big hose goes over the top of it. After restricting the air flow, you'll still find oil in this hose to the intake, but not as much ... hense, reduced oil consumption.

I have experience with a 1964 Chevy Truck with a 292 6-cyl engine. When using my custom chrome valve cover with the PCV valve located in front and low down on the side, my engine would occasionally puff smoke between shifts. That was a brand new engine from GM that I installed a few years ago. When going back to the original valve cover with the PCV Valve located in the top of the valve cover and with metal baffeling shielding the PCV Valve, the puff of smoke between shifts went away. Now that was a minor issue compared to all the stuff going on with the JK 3.8L issues, however the theory is pretty much the same.

If you recall many years ago, before the PCV was invented, engines had draft tubes that let the fumes out underneath the vehicle. That's where the 'greasy strip' came from on the road! The crancase vent came off the side of the engine into a small cylinder and then had a tube that went down below the frame in the air stream to vent.

The bottom line is to slow down the air flow through the engine to give the oil mist created during operation of the engine to have a little time to settle down and not be dragged out cussing and screaming only to be burned in the engine and catalyst.

I use Valvoline Conventional Motor Oil 10w30, change it about every 90 days or 2000 miles, and check it every time I fill it up with gas. Currently I'm down about 1/2 quart and have driven over 1000 miles. It is consistent ... can't say I like this situation, but that is how I'm dealing with it.

Hope this helps.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstrike View Post

As I understand your comments, I would install the air restrictor here?

Did the rubber hose came off easy without tearing it up?

And, what other impact would a restricted airflow do other engine functions beside reducing engine oil consumption?
Eliminating road draft tubes and adding positive crankcase ventilation reduced the majority of a vehicles emissions, everything since has been diminishing returns.

PCV systems work best when the engine seals well and minimizes blowby. More advanced systems use electronics and even computer control.

Like most American vehicles the JK's PCV system is essentially a calculated air leak designed to scavenge harmful gasses and introduce them into the combustion chamber. The calibration takes into account this air leak so changing the airflow through the system may have some effect, small as it may be.

I suggest you log LTFT's and see what effect your restriction has had, 10% is a lot.

Chrysler tried to save money over the years and eliminated the PCV and EGR valves on various models, running in essence a fixed orifice system.

Of coarse they were lame. Remember the I6 4.0's always leaking oil and saturating the intake? With high mileage the orifice would plug leading to crankcase pressure causing many leaks. I fixed many rear main leaks by adding a proper PCV system to the 4.0, it was easy to retrofit.

Being the 3.8 is a speed density system with no MAF the effect will be minimal, ; just be sure you have enough flow to scavenge the crankcase so you don't build up sludge or create oil leaks. You could essentially get the same effect by using a more restrictive PCV valve.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:17 PM   #69
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What are LTFT's? How would I collect that data?
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:24 PM   #70
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What are LTFT's? How would I collect that data?
Long Term Fuel Trim. I think the AeroForce gauge will display it.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:27 PM   #71
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OKAY, thank you for the detailed explanations, ronjenx and GuardBurn.

I will have to do this mod right away.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 09:20 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardBum View Post
I just remembered that I had attempted to restrict the air flow AFTER the PCV by using a piece of hose inside the hose going to the engine. Needless to say, after a 1000 miles of city driving, I confirmed that the PCV was the cupret. Restricting the air flow on the intake side is much cleaner.
That's just my 2 cents worth.
Respectfully submitted.
On the passenger side, I used a plastic bushing with 1/8 inch opening to restrict air flow at the air cleaner outlet to right valve cover. I hope this is not too small of hole.

On the driver side at the PCV Valve, do I need to restrict airflow here also? According to your post, I need to.

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Communication: Uniden 520XL CB, Diesel External Speaker, 3' FireStik Whip.
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Unread 01-07-2013, 06:26 AM   #73
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The restrictor you used is about the same as the brass nipple I used. There are various sizes of brass fittings to try out, I just happened to have an extra one laying around and it just so happend to fit into the airbox.

Regarding the driver's side ... I'm not sure at this time. I tried using a chunk of fuel hose about 2" long inside the big hose from the PCV to the intake. After a few days of driving I found a lot of oil in the hose between the PCV and the chunk of hose located on the intake end of the big hose. This identified where the oil is going, however, it had made a small mess. I pulled it out for reconsideration of the problem and haven't gone any further with it.

My first impression on the PCV to engine side of the issue might be to directly hook up a hose to the PCV Valve and then fish it throuh the big hose thereby extending the size of the PCV outlet into the hose. I'm not sure if that would do anything more to improve the situation ... just move the PCV outlet closer to the engine.

Replacing the PCV with a different valve type? Due to the design of the PCV and how it mounts into the left valve cover ... I think we are stuck with a factory valve. I'm kind of out of ideas on this. Perhaps a review of the JeepForum link in 'ronjenx's' post above may spark some creative ideas on how to make further modifications?
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Unread 01-07-2013, 10:42 AM   #74
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GuardBum,

Thanks for the great response.
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Protection: Skid Row Engine Skid, Lower Control Arm skid & Evaporator Skid; Rock Hard Gas Tank Skid; Warn Stainless Steel Differential Skid Front & Rear.
Recovery Gear: Warn 9.5Ti Winch, 11,000# Pull-Pal.
Communication: Uniden 520XL CB, Diesel External Speaker, 3' FireStik Whip.
Shrockworks Mid-width Front Bumper with Warn 9.5Ti Winch -- Ordered 7/17/2009; Bumper Received 12/4/2009.
1" Coil Spacer Front & 1/2" Coil Spacer Rear restored OEM Rake.
4x4 Trips:
Moab - 4/2006, 5/2008, 4/2009, 5/2011, 4/2013
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Unread 01-07-2013, 08:01 PM   #75
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OK, so I'm not out of ideas again! I did a search of my brass fittings and found one slightly smaller in inside diameter to try. I have no idea if it will work or not. I did measure the original brass fitting I used and the I.D. was 13/64". The hex part of the fitting was for a 9/16" wrench. The hole my fitting screwed into was 1/2". So it would appear that I reduced the freeway opening from approx 1/2" to 13/64" and had an oil consumption reduction to 1/2 quart per 1000. Today I replaced the original brass fitting with one that has an opening of of 11/64" reducing the air input by 1/32" smaller than before. No results other than one drive about 16 miles taking my daughter to work this morning. So far, all is well and no warning lights. I'm not sure if it will make a difference or not, I'll have to drive it more to see it this reduction will provide any additional benefits or not.

After some considerable thought on this today, there appears to be only three ideas on mittigating oil consumption throught the PCV ... installng a different PCV Valve (engineering nightmare well above my pay grade), installing some kind of baffle around the PCV inside the valve cover to help the oil settle back into the crankcase prior to entering the draft exiting the engine, (perhaps another engineering nightmare) or reducing the air intake side of the problem allowing the oil to settle on it's own and presumably stay in the engine as opposed to exiting stage left like snaggletooth did in the cartoons! So far it would seem that restricting the fresh air intake side has made a difference in my particular application. Maybe a few thousandths more will make an improvement?

One last thought on this matter until I get some data from my Jeep ... The engine is going to suck only so much as it can handle. The PCV will comply with the max the engine will pull through it based upon the parameters of the PCV (assuming factory PCV is used) ... barring a plugged up PCV. Assuming that the PCV is not clogged up, etc, then the only way to control how much draft is going through the engine is to is to reduce the air inlet size. I reduced mine a little bit more today and will give it a test run. When I have new info on this one way or the other, I'll report back in.

Respectfully submitted.







Today I reduced the fresh air intake side
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