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Unread 05-23-2015, 11:23 PM   #1
sprkplg08
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Banks JK turbo kit

Have you guys seen this?
http://m.quadratec.com/products/prod...pid=17608+3110

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Unread 05-24-2015, 08:26 AM   #2
VTJay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkplg08 View Post
My .02, I did a lot of research before choosing my RIPP kit, and was on the fence between the RIPP and prodigy performance's turbo kit... it came down to a few factors, there is a lot of modifications to run a turbo, none are difficult, but if you run into problems, there is no easy way to return to stock. My Ripp, it's just take it off and boom, back to stock. The second factor was that if you run into problems on the trail, I can change back to a stock belt and the SC is out of the equation, a turbo seizes or has problems, your DOA.... A turbo makes great power, but for reliablity, I felt a SC was better... again YMMV
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Unread 05-24-2015, 11:28 AM   #3
HappyTrails
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Originally Posted by VTJay View Post
My .02, I did a lot of research before choosing my RIPP kit, and was on the fence between the RIPP and prodigy performance's turbo kit... it came down to a few factors, there is a lot of modifications to run a turbo, none are difficult, but if you run into problems, there is no easy way to return to stock. My Ripp, it's just take it off and boom, back to stock. The second factor was that if you run into problems on the trail, I can change back to a stock belt and the SC is out of the equation, a turbo seizes or has problems, your DOA.... A turbo makes great power, but for reliablity, I felt a SC was better... again YMMV
I agree with VTJay. I carry a spare stock serpentine belt, and a spare RIPP belt. I'm covered if I bust the RIPP belt, or the remote chance the SC breaks.

I looked at the link to the Turbo, and there are NO details given. Turbos are not very popular on the JK's.
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Unread 05-24-2015, 07:08 PM   #4
JohnRodriguez
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if a turbo freezes up, it will still flow air tru it. if you pull the serpentine belt off your RIPP, it will still flow air tru it even though is not turning (or froze up). where the heck do you guys get your info from??? Turbo's are free HP. A supercharger, either a roots type, or centrifugal take HP to drive them, where as a turbo is spooled off of waste exhaust gas.
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Unread 05-24-2015, 08:36 PM   #5
duneslider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRodriguez View Post
if a turbo freezes up, it will still flow air tru it. if you pull the serpentine belt off your RIPP, it will still flow air tru it even though is not turning (or froze up). where the heck do you guys get your info from??? Turbo's are free HP. A supercharger, either a roots type, or centrifugal take HP to drive them, where as a turbo is spooled off of waste exhaust gas.
How do turbos handle water? Will dipping a hot turbo in a cold river cause it any problems?
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Unread 05-25-2015, 07:24 AM   #6
duneslider
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I don't know much about turbos, I just assumed they get pretty hot, didn't know if dipping them in water was bad. I assumed its okay but didn't know.

I thought intercoolers were just to cool the air, not to cool the actual turbo component?
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Unread 05-25-2015, 07:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duneslider
I don't know much about turbos, I just assumed they get pretty hot, didn't know if dipping them in water was bad. I assumed its okay but didn't know. I thought intercoolers were just to cool the air, not to cool the actual turbo component?
Yes, Turbos become very hot.
Turbos on a Jeep are asking for trouble if they get soaked by cold water from a river crossing.

The intercooler is used to cool the air and hence raise density of the compressed air. An air-air intercooler, like the RIPP unit, is the more efficient intercooler. There are air-water intercoolers, but those require more maintenance and are not as efficient.


I hate messing around with exhaust piping. Not like there is much room in the 3.8/3.6 engine bay in the first place.
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Unread 05-25-2015, 08:27 AM   #8
jwmbishop
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There is a reason top fuel dragsters use sc and not tc and rally cars use tc not sc.
The boost of a turbo is going to come AFTER the exhaust starts flowing. Turbo does nothing from off idle to 2000 rpm. If a turbo creates any boost at idle you have a run away or severe hunt. That issue create what is affectionately known as turbo lag. Not only off idle but ANY time you lift throttle you loose the spoolup and lag represents.

An sc can be set to start boost at idle. Adding torque to the 1000-2000 rpm range where tc is unspooled.

A turbo is hands down the better solution for a high winding fast rolling vehicle. In moderate traffic the lag is not even an issue - just get the throttle open sooner - even "before the green" in some cases.

But when my useful rpm range is 1000-3000 and I need INSTANT precise creation application of torque constant - not lagging torque production - you can pitch me on a turbo all day and it simply Ain't gonna fly....

And free? Seriously? No effort is required to spin it? Different parasite to be sure. But can not be non parasitic. Or did you just define perpetual motion which has eluded physicists for years....

HINT - the bsfc of an engine goes up as you need more fuel for the air and or to overcome parasitic losses. BSFC on a NA is .45-.50, on a super its .55-.60 on a turbo its .65-.70. IF that turbo were free the BSFC would be same or LESS than that of a SC....
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Unread Yesterday, 08:35 AM   #9
xBasicx
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Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
There is a reason top fuel dragsters use sc and not tc and rally cars use tc not sc.
The boost of a turbo is going to come AFTER the exhaust starts flowing. Turbo does nothing from off idle to 2000 rpm. If a turbo creates any boost at idle you have a run away or severe hunt. That issue create what is affectionately known as turbo lag. Not only off idle but ANY time you lift throttle you loose the spoolup and lag represents.

An sc can be set to start boost at idle. Adding torque to the 1000-2000 rpm range where tc is unspooled.

A turbo is hands down the better solution for a high winding fast rolling vehicle. In moderate traffic the lag is not even an issue - just get the throttle open sooner - even "before the green" in some cases.

But when my useful rpm range is 1000-3000 and I need INSTANT precise creation application of torque constant - not lagging torque production - you can pitch me on a turbo all day and it simply Ain't gonna fly....

And free? Seriously? No effort is required to spin it? Different parasite to be sure. But can not be non parasitic. Or did you just define perpetual motion which has eluded physicists for years....

HINT - the bsfc of an engine goes up as you need more fuel for the air and or to overcome parasitic losses. BSFC on a NA is .45-.50, on a super its .55-.60 on a turbo its .65-.70. IF that turbo were free the BSFC would be same or LESS than that of a SC....

Have you driven a turbo since the 80s?

The boost of a turbo is going to come AFTER the exhaust starts flowing.
If your exhaust isnt flowing your jeep is off who need power then?

Turbo does nothing from off idle to 2000 rpm.
An sc can be set to start boost at idle. Adding torque to the 1000-2000 rpm range where tc is unspooled.

You need to let all the modern turbo cars manufactures know this info i just got my m4 and it makes full torque at 1850 rpms 400+ ft/lbs and that's a little 3.0 with 2 turbos.

A turbo is hands down the better solution for a high winding fast rolling vehicle. Like a trucks with their turbo diesels. oh wait they are slow with low down torque for pulling.

But when my useful rpm range is 1000-3000 and I need INSTANT precise creation application of torque constant - not lagging torque production - you can pitch me on a turbo all day and it simply Ain't gonna fly....

Just stick to making up your own facts im sure that the Buick gn you test drove was a laggy ***** but turbos and super chargers have come a long way.

Oh and wouldn't a jeep be closer to a rally car then a top full dragster?
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Unread Yesterday, 09:04 AM   #10
RockyClymer
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xBasicx - you have some interesting opinions sir, but no actual experience you cite to back them up. And, comparing a gas turbo to a diesel turbo is apples to oranges as one operates roughly on the Carnot Cycle and the other on the Diesel Cycle (thermodynamic heat cycle). I agree a turbo can be sized to provide lower rpm performance, but being smaller it will tend to top out at a lower rpm leaving the upper end of rpms unboosted IMO. John is not making up facts - you can have your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts...solid engineering and thermodynamics support the facts as stated.
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Unread Yesterday, 09:33 AM   #11
xBasicx
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xBasicx - you have some interesting opinions sir, but no actual experience you cite to back them up. And, comparing a gas turbo to a diesel turbo is apples to oranges as one operates roughly on the Carnot Cycle and the other on the Diesel Cycle (thermodynamic heat cycle). I agree a turbo can be sized to provide lower rpm performance, but being smaller it will tend to top out at a lower rpm leaving the upper end of rpms unboosted IMO. John is not making up facts - you can have your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts...solid engineering and thermodynamics support the facts as stated.
how is turbos make full torque before 2k rpms not a fact? you can see it on dyno graphs i know my m4 does and i pretty sure the ford eco boost 3.5 does too. its alot more then turbo size that effects how a turbo spools light weight wheels for one. Again you should let car engineers know These " FACTS " my torque is from 1850 -till 5600 then it starts to taper down.

He flat out said turbos do nothing before 2k rpms that is no fact. my car makes full torque from 1850 -till 5600 then it starts to taper down.


http://m-power.com/_open/b/closedro...d=3157&lang=en thats the link to the bmw page first graph is the dyno look at 1k - 2k and say turbos dont make power till after 2k

the only fact that he stated was top fuel cars do use superchargers and rally cars use turbo after that now much was facts the parasitic loss on both would have to be tested an old bushing steel turbo wheel would be more then a ceramic bearing aluminum or titanium wheel. Same would go for the super charger roots should use more then say a centrifugal like ripps or pro charger.
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Unread Yesterday, 10:16 AM   #12
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the OP simply asked if anyone had see the Banks JK Turbo Kit.
Let's steer the conversation back on track.

No, I have not seen the Banks JK Turbo Kit before the OP posted it here.
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Unread Yesterday, 10:53 AM   #13
999666
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I have worked with both and custom installed both turbo and SC systems.
I myself prefer superchargers due to less plumbing to leak boost as everything gets older but initial install is often requires more custom made parts to work reliably. Another bonus for SC is a simply pully change is all you need to change the boost you want after.
Problem with SC is they cost a lot more to buy while turbo's are cheaper yet more efficient.
If you have lagg then the turbo was not sized correctly or was simply chosen to be oversized for more HP in the upper RPM at the cost of low rpm tq, will choke in upper rpm's if sized too small unless you go bi-turbo for the best of both worlds, you can even turbo supercharged engines.
In the end it is up to the builder as to exactly what kind of power band you actually want and balance it by sizing everything properly that includes the type of power band the engine initialy had while naturally aspirated.

3700 is a lot for a turbo system IMO but then again I would just make my own as my last home made turbo system capable of 10 psi of boost cost me less then 600 bucks installed (myself) & that was even buying the turbo brand new from Garret.

FYI turbo's are cooled by 3 things, engine oil, engine coolant and the flow of hot exhaust gasses passing through the turbo & out the exhaust pipe. Intercoolers just cool the compressed intake air to make it more dense and less likly to detonate.
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Unread Yesterday, 11:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 999666 View Post
I have worked with both and custom installed both turbo and SC systems.
I myself prefer superchargers due to less plumbing to leak boost as everything gets older but initial install is often requires more custom made parts to work reliably. Another bonus for SC is a simply pully change is all you need to change the boost you want after.
Problem with SC is they cost a lot more to buy while turbo's are cheaper yet more efficient.
If you have lagg then the turbo was not sized correctly or was simply chosen to be oversized for more HP in the upper RPM at the cost of low rpm tq, will choke in upper rpm's if sized too small unless you go bi-turbo for the best of both worlds, you can even turbo supercharged engines.
In the end it is up to the builder as to exactly what kind of power band you actually want and balance it by sizing everything properly that includes the type of power band the engine initialy had while naturally aspirated.

3700 is a lot for a turbo system IMO but then again I would just make my own as my last home made turbo system capable of 10 psi of boost cost me less then 600 bucks installed (myself) & that was even buying the turbo brand new from Garret.

FYI turbo's are cooled by 3 things, engine oil, engine coolant and the flow of hot exhaust gasses passing through the turbo & out the exhaust pipe. Intercoolers just cool the compressed intake air to make it more dense and less likly to detonate.

Awesome post. Very helpful.
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Unread Yesterday, 05:19 PM   #15
jwmbishop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xBasicx View Post
Have you driven a turbo since the 80s?

The boost of a turbo is going to come AFTER the exhaust starts flowing.
If your exhaust isnt flowing your jeep is off who need power then?

Turbo does nothing from off idle to 2000 rpm.
An sc can be set to start boost at idle. Adding torque to the 1000-2000 rpm range where tc is unspooled.

You need to let all the modern turbo cars manufactures know this info i just got my m4 and it makes full torque at 1850 rpms 400+ ft/lbs and that's a little 3.0 factory engineered to run with 2 turbosUNLIKE the JK 3.8/.6 factory engineered to aspire normally So of COURSE they are a good comparison..

A turbo is hands down the better solution for a high winding fast rolling vehicle. Like a trucks with their turbo diesels. oh wait they are slow with low down torque for pulling.

But when my useful rpm range is 1000-3000 and I need INSTANT precise creation application of torque constant - not lagging torque production - you can pitch me on a turbo all day and it simply Ain't gonna fly....

Just stick to making up your own facts im sure that the Buick gn you test drove was a laggy ***** but turbos and super chargers have come a long way. Naw - the idiot that had the only one I saw pre 90s scrapped the entire engine for a big 520s something Chevy and went pro street before I could drive it. That would have been a 100K car today if he had kept it stock!

Oh and wouldn't a jeep be closer to a rally car then a top full dragster?Yes and no - Dragster needs torque from idle to 3000 a rally car never goes under 3000 rpm if driven correctly.


Lol.
Yea my Caddy V is quite a dog. Even in tour mode (boost hits the max 6psi at 1200RPM) it will do a sub 13 1/4 mile. In sport the turbos comes up to 6 by 1200 RPM and 21 by 2300 with my foot all down. 11.53 1/4 in sport.

But talk about SLOW 0-60 in 4.3 - what a pig. Especially once the thing DOES spool it takes a mind bogglingly slow 3.9 to get the rest of the way to 120 from 60. That's 0-120 in under 9. Yes - I can still feel lag - but its insignificant because the entire bottom end and heads ARE DESIGNED for the turbos - not the same heads or short block used in the base hi-opt v6.

So now diesel oil burns the same way gasoline does? A turbo diesel does NOT work the same way a turbo gas does. Look up "stoichiometric" and see if diesel oil has a stoic point. Oh wait it DOESNT - saved ya an hour of googling their bro....

Oh and lets not compare a turbo on an engine designed from the pistons up for a turbo to a natural aspired with a turbo bolted on. We all know it ONLY the turbo - not the ports, not the piston shape, not the stroke to conn rod ratio, none of that (these are all things the engineers were paid to do while really playing Atari on company dime.) How DO you take lag out? Lower the comp ratio. Is the comp ratio changed with a bolt on gale banks? Nope. So expect it to lag... and NOT perform like a new turbo engine DESIGNED to maximize all aspects of design FOR a turbo...

We were discussing BOLT on - not designed for...
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