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Unread 12-06-2012, 04:02 AM   #1
tryingtolearn
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Another TPMS ?

Hi all, I have read over 373,942 forum posts on 343 different sites over the last few days dealing with TPMS questions and it seems lilke a whole bunch of NON information out there so Ill try another post.

Yes I know you can buy stuff to change the settings
Yes I know you can put electrical tape over the light
Yes I know the light coming on has no impact whatsoever
What I dont know is how to fix my problem

I have 2009 Rubicon - Bought a set of BFG take offs from a guy who took his stock sensors out.

Went to just tires to get the rims mounted - They ordered the sensors (Only 1 listed for the year and model (433mhz)

Put the tires on drove fine for the 1st days (about 75 miles) The next morning, about 20 miles into the drive to work, the chime started light blinked on and off then stayed lit.

Same thing every day ths week. (Checked all the pressure and they are fine)

Does anybody know if anything has to be done to aftermarket sensors to get them to work (i.e. program them ) or do they automatically get recognized by the system?
(I didnt leave just tires with too much confidence in what the sales guy was saying)
"some vehicles need to be programmed some dont - Not too sure about jeeps"

So what Im searching for is someone that knows the system and how it works and the little oddities associated with it.
Any help on correcting the problem or true insight on how it works would be much appreciated. THanks

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Unread 12-06-2012, 07:38 AM   #2
paul84043
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There are a few here with a pretty good baseline on them.
One member "JeepCares" is affiliated directly with Chrysler and usually comes up with TSB's and all kinds of cool tech stuff.

My recollection was 2007 to 2010 were all the same.
2011-2012 were different.
2013 is different again.

What is the tire pressure that all of your tires are filled to? Including the spare. What size/make of tires are you running?
Are they filled with air or nitrogen? (The only reason this matters is that regular air will change pressure more dramatically than Nitrogen will)
It the system actually went "ok" at some point, then you have to deduce that either a sensor is failing, or that your pressure readings are borderline.

If you can answer the questions and then someone can possibly get you the "real deal" on how the sensors work/behave.

Welcome and thanks for the post!!
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Unread 12-06-2012, 08:21 AM   #3
JIMBOX
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So, after reading that encyclopedia of info, you decided not to get the PROCAL MODULE ??

Too bad, you're really missing out-

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Unread 12-06-2012, 09:05 AM   #4
tryingtolearn
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255 75 17 BFF mt

Filled with air. The first day the light came on they were at 35 psi
I bumped them up to 38 just to see if there was a "scale" to the monitor.

Thanks for the input jimbo hahaha guess some folks just can't resist. Btw, I have one
just that sometimes I like to know how things work and what causes errors so I learn rather then just adding a quick fix to things.
Alway been my thought process and all along I thought that made me "not miss out on things" guess that's shot ..
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Unread 12-06-2012, 09:19 AM   #5
JIMBOX
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I know just how you feel, but because of all the systems that the AEVPM can "modify", I've used mine for over three years for tire changes/size difference speedo cal/DL/High speed Idle and--BINGO-no TPMS -

If you wanna know just how the TPMS system works and because of random dependability, learn how to controlit thru the ECU-good luck, you'll know more than the Chrysler engineers know

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtolearn View Post
255 75 17 BFF mt

Filled with air. The first day the light came on they were at 35 psi
I bumped them up to 38 just to see if there was a "scale" to the monitor.

Thanks for the input jimbo hahaha guess some folks just can't resist. Btw, I have one
just that sometimes I like to know how things work and what causes errors so I learn rather then just adding a quick fix to things.
Alway been my thought process and all along I thought that made me "not miss out on things" guess that's shot ..
Good luck

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Unread 12-06-2012, 11:54 AM   #6
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Some info from the 2009 JK Service Manual:

DESCRIPTION



NOTE: On vehicles equipped with a Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS), when the spare tire pressure sensor is replaced with a new pressure sensor, a diagnostic scan tool MUST be used to run a routine that will program the new pressure sensor ID into the Wireless Control Module (WCM), commonly referred to as the Sentry Key Remote Entry Module (SKREEM). Please copy the ID number off of the new pressure sensor before installing it into the spare tire. Then follow the programming steps outlined in the diagnostic scan tool for: “Learn Spare Tire Sensor ID” under Miscellaneous Functions for the “WCM/Wireless Control Module” menu item as appropriate.If a TPM-RKE Analyzer special tool is available, put the new spare tire pressure sensor into “Park” mode to conserve the battery life of the sensor. If a TPM-RKE Analyzer special tool is not available, rotate the spare tire with one of the road tires.


NOTE: If replacing the WCM, the spare tire must be dismounted from its wheel to access and note the spare tire pressure sensor ID. Alternatively, a TPM-RKE Analyzer Tool can be used to obtain the TPM sensor ID also. Then follow the programming steps outlined in the diagnostic scan tool for “Learn Spare Tire Sensor ID” under Miscellaneous Functions for the WCM wireless control module menu item as appropriate.



On vehicles equipped with Tire Pressure Monitoring System, one tire pressure sensor (6) is mounted to each wheel in place of the traditional tire valve stem. Each sensor has an internal battery that lasts up to 10 years. The battery is not serviceable. At the time of battery failure, the sensor must be replaced.
The TPM system operates on a 315 MHz radio frequency. The 315 MHz sensors can be easily identified by a black sensor body, with (an oval insignia) (1) and a grey valve cap (2).

The Export TPM system operates on a 433 MHz radio frequency. The 433 MHz sensors can be easily identified by a gray sensor body (with an oval insignia) and a black valve cap (2).
CAUTION: Although 315 MHz and 433 MHz sensors are identical in size and shape, they are not interchangeable. Always make sure the correct color sensor is being used. A RKE-TPM Analyzer can be used to determine the sensor's frequency without having to dismount the tire.


NOTE: Sensors may be identified by valve stem cap color. From the factory, 315 MHz sensors have a gray valve stem cap while 433 MHz sensors have a black valve stem cap. Otherwise, once mounted inside a tire and wheel assembly you are not able to visually tell the difference between a 315 MHz and 433 MHz sensor. The tire must be dismounted allowing visual inspection of the sensor body.


NOTE: If aftermarket wheels are installed and do not contain tire pressure sensors, the system will not function properly and the driver will be continuously notified of a system malfunction.
The TPM sensors are designed for original style factory wheels. It is not recommended to install a tire pressure sensor in an aftermarket wheel. (This could cause sealing and system performance issues).



The serviceable components of the tire pressure sensor are:
Sensor-To-Wheel Seal (4)
Valve Stem Cap (2)
Valve Stem Core
Valve Stem Nut (3)
The valve stem caps and cores used are specifically designed for the tire pressure monitoring sensors. Although similar to standard valve stem caps and cores, they are different. The valve stem cap has a special seal inside to keep moisture and corrosion out. The valve stem core has a special nickel coating to protect from corrosion.

OPERATION



NOTE: On vehicles equipped with a Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS), when the spare tire pressure sensor is replaced with a new pressure sensor, a diagnostic scan tool MUST be used to run a routine that will program the new pressure sensor ID into the wireless control module (WCM), commonly referred to as the sentry key remote entry module (SKREEM). Please copy the ID number off of the new pressure sensor before installing it into the spare tire. Then follow the programming steps outlined in the diagnostic scan tool for: “Learn Spare Tire Sensor ID” under Miscellaneous Functions for the WCM wireless control module menu item as appropriate.If a TPM-RKE Analyzer special tool is available, put the new spare tire pressure sensor into “Park” mode to conserve the battery life of the sensor. If a TPM-RKE Analyzer special tool is not available, rotate the spare tire with one of the road tires


NOTE: If replacing the WCM, the spare tire must be dismounted from its wheel to access and note the spare tire pressure sensor ID. Alternatively, a TPM-RKE Analyzer Tool can be used to obtain the TPM sensor ID also. Then follow the programming steps outlined in the diagnostic scan tool for “Learn Spare Tire Sensor ID” under Miscellaneous Functions for the WCM wireless control module menu item as appropriate.
The battery operated tire pressure sensor is both a transmitter and a receiver. The TPM sensor can be forced to transmit if using a special tool such as a TPM-RKE Analyzer, or from a transponder. (Refer to 22 - TIRES/WHEELS/TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING/TRANSPONDER - OPERATION) The TPM-RKE Analyzer has the ability to change the sensor’s operating mode and to diagnose a faulty TPM sensor. Using a TPM-RKE Analyzer can take up to a minute to force a transmission from a sensor. The TPM sensor can be in one of the following modes:
•Sleep Mode - This is the operating mode of a new TPM sensor. If placed on the vehicle as a road tire, the sensor will transmit once every 20 seconds when the vehicle is driven at speeds over 15 mph (24 km/h). If the vehicle is not moving, the sensor will only transmit on a pressure change greater then 1 PSI. Driving the vehicle continuously at this speed for more then 4 minutes will change the sensor state into 30 BLOCK MODE. The TPM sensor will not return to SLEEP MODE. Now, if the vehicle has been stopped for 20 minutes, the TPM sensor state will change to PARK MODE. If the vehicle is equipped with a full size matching spare tire and the spare tire sensor has been replaced, The sensor must be changed to Park Mode to conserve battery life. Either use a TPM-RKE Analyzer, or swap the spare tire with a road tire.
•Park Mode - This is the correct operating mode when the vehicle is not moving. The sensor will transmit once every 13 hours to update the WCM, or will transmit on a 1 PSI delta change. The sensors will internally take a measurement of the tire pressure every minute to determine a change in tire pressure
•30 Block Mode - If the vehicle has been stopped for more then 20 minutes, or if the sensor’s operating mode was forced to Park Mode using a TPM-RKE Analyzer, the sensor’s operating mode will transition from Park Mode to 30 Block Mode once the vehicle is driven over 15mph. In this mode, the sensor will transmit once every 15 seconds when the vehicle is driven at speeds over 15 mph (24 km/h) for the first 30 transmissions. After about 8 minutes of continuous driving above 15 mph (24 km/h), the sensor’s mode will change to Drive Mode
•Drive Mode - In this mode, the sensor will transmit once every minute when the vehicle is driven at speeds over 15 mph (24 km/h). At any time the vehicle speed drops below 15 mph, the sensor will not transmit. The sensor mode will still be in drive mode when the sensor reaches speeds over 15 mph (24 km/h), If the vehicle has been stationary for more then 20 minutes, the TPM sensor will change to PARK MODE.
Each sensor’s (transmitter) broadcast is uniquely coded so that the wireless control module (WCM) can monitor the state of each of the sensors on the four rotating road wheels. The WCM can automatically learn and store the sensor’s ID while driving “within 10 minutes continuously above 15 m.p.h. (24 Km/h)” after a sensor has been replaced, The vehicle must be stationary for more then 20 minutes in order to initiate the learning sequence. The sensor IDs can also be programmed using the TPM-RKE Analyzer Tool. Scan each TPM sensor at each road wheel, and store each Sensor ID in the correct location. (LEFT FRONT, LEFT REAR, RIGHT FRONT, and RIGHT REAR) Connect the TPM-RKE Analyzer Tool to the Scan Tool. Then follow the programming steps outlined in the diagnostic Scan Tool for “Program Tire Pressure Sensor ID w/ TPM Tool” under “MISC” for the “WCM/WIRELESS CONTROL MODULE”.
WIRELESS CONTROL MODULE (WCM)
The receiver circuit for the TPM system is integrated into the WCM. for non-remote start vehicles. For factory installed remote start vehicles, the remote start antenna is external to the WCM. The WCM can also include the Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) receiver, Remote Start (if equipped), and the Sentry Key Immobilizer (SKIM) receiver. All Four receivers share a number of common components. The WCM decodes the RF signals transmitted by each of the vehicle's tire pressure sensors. The decoded information is used to determine if "warning" or "fault" conditions exist within the TPM system.
The WCM communicates with the module that controls the "TPM telltale lamp", via the vehicle bus system.
Upon detection of a warning or fault condition, the WCM will send a request to illuminate or flash the yellow TPM telltale. Also, upon detection of a warning or fault condition, the display module will send a request to sound the "chime". A chime will only be requested once per ignition cycle per warning or fault condition detected.
The WCM will store all warning and fault conditions, placard pressure values, low-pressure threshold values and low pressure threshold hysteresis values in memory that can be accessed through diagnostic communication. If new sensors are introduced to the vehicle, the data stored for the sensor being replaced will be deleted.
The WCM will store all wheel sensor ID's and locations and faults in memory that can be accessed through diagnostic communication. All other data values transmitted from each active wheel sensor (not the spare tire) shall be stored in the WCM memory.
The WCM automatically learns and stores the sensor's ID while driving “within 10 minutes continuously above 15 m.p.h. (24 Km/h)” after a sensor has been replaced.
The learning sequence will initiate when the vehicle has been stopped for more then 20 minutes. A new TPM sensor ID can also be programmed directly into the WCM by using a RKE-TPM Analyzer in conjunction with a Scan Tool. Once the new TPM sensor ID has been programmed, the RKE-TPM Analyzer can be used to update the TPMS by activating the TPM sensor.
BASE TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING
This system will consist of Tire Pressure Monitoring (TPM) sensors attached to each wheel through the valve stem mounting hole, a Wireless Control Module (WCM) and a yellow TPM telltale lamp. A TPM sensor shall be installed in the spare wheel if the vehicle is equipped with a matching full size spare wheel and tire assembly.



NOTE: The Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) will warn the driver of a low tire pressure based on the vehicle recommended cold placard pressure.
The tire pressure will vary with temperature by about 1 psi (6.9 kPa) for every 12F (6.5C). When the outside temperature decreases, the tire pressure will decrease. Tire pressure should always be set based on cold inflation tire pressure. This is defined as the tire pressure after a vehicle has not been driven for more than 3 hours - and in outside ambient temperature. The tire pressure will also increase as the vehicle is driven - this is normal and there should be no adjustment for this increased pressure.
The TPM System will warn the driver of a low tire pressure if the tire pressure falls below the low pressure warning threshold for any reason, including low temperature effects.
The TPM System will continue to warn the driver of low tire pressure as long as the condition exists, and will not turn off until the tire pressure is at or above recommended cold placard pressure. Once the low tire pressure warning has been illuminated, the tire pressure must be increased to the recommended cold placard pressure in order for the TPM warning lamp to be turned off. The system will automatically update and the TPM warning lamp will extinguish once the updated tire pressures have been received. The vehicle may need to be driven for up to 10 minutes above 15 mph (25 kph) to receive this information.
09jktpms.jpg  
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Unread 12-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #7
JeepCares
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Some more info from the "09 JK FSM:

OPERATION
The tire pressure monitoring system is designed to operate without loss of function for all OEM tire construction for this vehicle. Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensors, mounted to each road wheel as part of the valve stem, transmit an RF signal indicating their individual pressure to a receiver located in the Wireless Control Module (WCM), commonly referred to as the Sentry Key Remote Entry Module (SKREEM).These transmissions occur approximately once every minute at speeds over 15 mph (24 km/h). If the TPM system detects that the tire pressure in any road tire is going low, beyond the Low Pressure (lamp) ON threshold (see placard table below), the TPM system will continuously illuminate an indicator lamp. If a system fault is detected, the indicator lamp will flash on/off for 75 seconds and then remain on solid.

If the WCM detects a warning or fault condition at ignition key "on" it will wait ten seconds +/- 10 % before sending the first request to illuminate the yellow TPM telltale lamp. This will assure that the display module has concluded its bulb check period. The display module will request a chime once per ignition cycle for each "warning" or "fault" condition detected. A "warning" or "fault" condition will remain enabled until the problem causing the condition is corrected and removed/reset.

The WCM shall continuously monitor for the receipt of tire pressure RF message transmissions from the TPM sensors during both the ignition key "on" and key "off" cycles. The TPM sensor ID's and the location of each sensor (e.g. Tire 1, Tire 2 etc.) are stored in the WCM non-volatile memory during the initial Manufacturing Plant Process, or during a service procedure, as required. The recommended "placard pressure", "low-pressure threshold" and “Hysteresis Pressure Values” for the tires installed on the vehicle, are stored in the WCM non-volatile memory during the initial Manufacturing Plant Process, or during a service procedure, as required.

The recommended "Placard Pressure", "Low-pressure Threshold", and "Hysteresis Pressure Values" for the tires installed on the vehicle, are stored in the non-volatile memory during the initial Manufacturing Plant Process, or during a service procedure, as required. To determine the pressure thresholds for a vehicle, refer to the Tire Inflation Pressure (Placard) Label, and then apply the placard pressure to the following table. The Low Pressure Off Threshold is defined as the Low Pressure On Threshold plus the Hysteresis Pressure Value.



TPM THRESHOLD PRESSURES


NOTE: To determine the pressure thresholds for a vehicle, refer to the Tire Inflation Pressure (Placard) Label found on the Driver's B-Pillar, then apply the placard pressure to the following table.
OPERATION
The tire pressure monitoring system is designed to operate without loss of function for all OEM tire construction for this vehicle. Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensors, mounted to each road wheel as part of the valve stem, transmit an RF signal indicating their individual pressure to a receiver located in the Wireless Control Module (WCM), commonly referred to as the Sentry Key Remote Entry Module (SKREEM).These transmissions occur approximately once every minute at speeds over 15 mph (24 km/h). If the TPM system detects that the tire pressure in any road tire is going low, beyond the Low Pressure (lamp) ON threshold (see placard table below), the TPM system will continuously illuminate an indicator lamp. If a system fault is detected, the indicator lamp will flash on/off for 75 seconds and then remain on solid.

If the WCM detects a warning or fault condition at ignition key "on" it will wait ten seconds +/- 10 % before sending the first request to illuminate the yellow TPM telltale lamp. This will assure that the display module has concluded its bulb check period. The display module will request a chime once per ignition cycle for each "warning" or "fault" condition detected. A "warning" or "fault" condition will remain enabled until the problem causing the condition is corrected and removed/reset.

The WCM shall continuously monitor for the receipt of tire pressure RF message transmissions from the TPM sensors during both the ignition key "on" and key "off" cycles. The TPM sensor ID's and the location of each sensor (e.g. Tire 1, Tire 2 etc.) are stored in the WCM non-volatile memory during the initial Manufacturing Plant Process, or during a service procedure, as required. The recommended "placard pressure", "low-pressure threshold" and “Hysteresis Pressure Values” for the tires installed on the vehicle, are stored in the WCM non-volatile memory during the initial Manufacturing Plant Process, or during a service procedure, as required.

The recommended "Placard Pressure", "Low-pressure Threshold", and "Hysteresis Pressure Values" for the tires installed on the vehicle, are stored in the non-volatile memory during the initial Manufacturing Plant Process, or during a service procedure, as required. To determine the pressure thresholds for a vehicle, refer to the Tire Inflation Pressure (Placard) Label, and then apply the placard pressure to the following table. The Low Pressure Off Threshold is defined as the Low Pressure On Threshold plus the Hysteresis Pressure Value.



TPM THRESHOLD PRESSURES


NOTE: To determine the pressure thresholds for a vehicle, refer to the Tire Inflation Pressure (Placard) Label found on the Driver's B-Pillar, then apply the placard pressure to the following table.


( I can't upload it in table form.)


The first number on each line is Placard Pressure (Cold) (PSI) The second number is Low Pressure ON Threshold (PSI) The third number is Low Pressure OFF Threshold (PSI)
28 22 26
29 23 27
30 24 28
31 25 29
32 25 29
33 26 30
34 27 31
35 28 32
36 29 33
37 29 34
38 30 35
39 31 36
40 32 37
41 33 38
42 34 39
43 35 40
44 36 41
45 36 41
46 37 43
47 38 44
48 38 45
49 39 45
50 40 47
51 41 48
55 44 52
60 48 57
65 52 62
70 56 67
75 60 72
80 64 77
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Unread 12-06-2012, 03:19 PM   #8
1222
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I think you just broke the record for the longest post ever in the entire kingdom of web site history.

Just kidding of course and thanks for that bit (huge bit) of info, very interesting.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 04:44 PM   #9
tryingtolearn
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Jeep Cares
I would like to thank you for this post, exactly the info I have been searching for.
Right to the point.
I am reading over it now and will hopefully gain some insight to the system.
Thanks again for taking the time and providing some great info.
Guess I should start going back tot he other forums I visited to point folks to this thread.
Much appreciated.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 04:50 PM   #10
Dale_K
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I'm trying to understand this because my TPMS light came on when I installed a set of takeoff Jeep wheels that had the factory sensors. Reading the info, it seems like the Wrangler should learn the IDs of the new sensors but possibly not the spare. Is that right? Could I mount the spare and drive around to force the Wrangler to learn the ID of the sensor in that wheel? Or should I just take it to the dealer?

I already had a Procal to turn on the DRLs and used it to disable the TPMS but I don't like deactivating safety systems and I'd like to get it functioning again.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:18 PM   #11
paul84043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtolearn View Post
Jeep Cares
I would like to thank you for this post, exactly the info I have been searching for.
Right to the point.
I am reading over it now and will hopefully gain some insight to the system.
Thanks again for taking the time and providing some great info.
Guess I should start going back tot he other forums I visited to point folks to this thread.
Much appreciated.
Told you he was good....

Another thing that comes to mind is, make sure your pressure gauge is accurate.
I had 5 of them that read a span of 30psi difference.
I took them to a tire shop and checked them against one of their "good" gauges and tossed 4 of mine.

32 PSI seems to be the magic number... somewhere around there is where you'll start setting the TPMS if your tires get cold.

And don't bother with the other forums....this is the only one you need!!

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Unread 12-06-2012, 05:49 PM   #12
tryingtolearn
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Yeah no need for the other forums now!!
I figured there would be a difference in gauges I checked with two and hey were close but thats always a STRONG possibility.

This was the best line that I wish I had prior to buying the sensors
Quote:
NOTE: Sensors may be identified by valve stem cap color. From the factory, 315 MHz sensors have a gray valve stem cap while 433 MHz sensors have a black valve stem cap. Otherwise, once mounted inside a tire and wheel assembly you are not able to visually tell the difference between a 315 MHz and 433 MHz sensor. The tire must be dismounted allowing visual inspection of the sensor body.
Even though justtires only listed the 433 mhz for mine, I have gray caps on my original rims and the ones JT ordered have black caps..... Go Figure.

Wonder how easy they will be to work with on this one hahaha.
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Unread 12-06-2012, 08:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtolearn View Post
Yeah no need for the other forums now!!
I figured there would be a difference in gauges I checked with two and hey were close but thats always a STRONG possibility.

This was the best line that I wish I had prior to buying the sensors


Even though justtires only listed the 433 mhz for mine, I have gray caps on my original rims and the ones JT ordered have black caps..... Go Figure.

Wonder how easy they will be to work with on this one hahaha.
I'll read that whole bit when I have more energy. (thanks Jeepcares! That should be put into a sticky)

But, just in case it doesn't say it, the flashing warning means bad sensor.
(and I think you got the wrong frequency for an 09, anyway)

EDIT: OP, you reported a flashing then solid warning light, that indicates a faulty sensor:
"If the TPM system detects that the tire pressure in any road tire is going low, beyond the Low Pressure (lamp) ON threshold (see placard table below), the TPM system will continuously illuminate an indicator lamp. If a system fault is detected, the indicator lamp will flash on/off for 75 seconds and then remain on solid."

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