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Unread 08-27-2014, 03:31 PM   #1
jwmbishop
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Air levelers

When going back through pictures of our last outing - I noticed that when carrying all of my gear my rig does load down in the back a bit - costing me ground clearance. Has anyone tried an air leveler kit like Firestone's off road - just a quick turn of the regulator to get back to level seems it would work pretty good.... and if plumbed dual it should even accept the articulation as the air goes from the compressed side to the extended side.

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Unread 08-27-2014, 04:21 PM   #2
222Doc
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there is a guy in our P4W HCPoker run that has just air lift no springs at all ,of some sort it flexs no trouble here it is behind me on a 4.25. no idea what brand it is, but it is the only one i have seen
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Unread 08-28-2014, 09:07 AM   #3
SLADE
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I would look into a coil that better suits your needs/loaded weight.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 09:18 AM   #4
jwmbishop
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Thanks, looks like it may be doable. My biggest negative was thinking it would act like a roll bar and try to keep vehicle level to tires not ground.

I understand I can place a spring with a slightly higher rate, and free length that yields my desired installed height. BUT then when I roll empty I am taller, or when I roll loaded I'm shorter. One of my two outings is usually through SuperLift in Hot springs. - there I roll empty - sky clearance is a concern for all the tree limbs - and ground clearance is a concern on some of my favs. Some form of adjust ability gives the best of both with a turn of the knob.
Then my second outing is the Jamboree - there I roll loaded up. I am thinking how nice it would be to get to the same height either way.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 09:51 AM   #5
SLADE
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What is the difference in loaded and unloaded weight?

What is the ride height difference loaded and unloaded?
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Unread 08-28-2014, 10:12 AM   #6
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How does your spacers effect your load carrying capacity?

They increase your ride height and add to the free length and solid height of the coil but have zero spring rate.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 11:05 AM   #7
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http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-write-...ation-write-up

Here is a write-up of some but I haven't used them. I have wanted to get some for my jeep commander for when I tow and I have talked to a few guys with them in their commanders and they like them and seem to say they don't notice them at all off road.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 11:39 AM   #8
222Doc
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i wonder how that would effect flex? seems like it would hurt full stuff. spacer wont.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 11:45 AM   #9
duneslider
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I have been curious too but from what I have been told it doesn't seem to affect it much if at all. I was going to get some for my JK before I got the EVO springs but now I don't feel the need as these hold the weight great for my needs.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 12:18 PM   #10
SLADE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duneslider View Post
I was going to get some for my JK before I got the EVO springs but now I don't feel the need as these hold the weight great for my needs.


Sorta why I question the current coil + spacer setup and think that it's more of the problem.

I think that a coil better suited for the demands could/would eliminate the need for air bags. It's not like we're looking at a pickup truck that will see a 2,000lb - 4,000lb+ swing in loaded vs unloaded weight.


The coils are already too short or too light because a .75" spacer was needed to achieve the desired ride height and they are allowing for too much sag when loaded.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 12:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
i wonder how that would effect flex?

Wonder how they would hold up to flex? Especially if they are mounted inside the coil spring.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 12:28 PM   #12
duneslider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
Wonder how they would hold up to flex? Especially if they are mounted inside the coil spring.
From what I have read, they hold up great as long as they have the minimum pressure in them. IF the pressure is too low they don't last long. If I had lots of extra money I would get some just to play with.
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Unread 08-28-2014, 12:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
I noticed that when carrying all of my gear my rig does load down in the back a bit - costing me ground clearance.

Do you air your tires down when offroad?

If so, do you account for extra weight when you air down or do you air down to a set PSI regardless of the change in weight of the Jeep?
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Unread 08-28-2014, 01:57 PM   #14
222Doc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLADE View Post
Wonder how they would hold up to flex? Especially if they are mounted inside the coil spring.


Right and by design it would have to limit flex unless they compress enough and have a air bypass,like Jim said. But i wonder if that might add to unloading on a off cambor or a bounce I know the jeep shown in that pic was rather cool he cold change height on the fly. I remember that day well as my jeep was about new and he said on the radio," That rUbi aint going to make it" well id did but was leaving plastic bits behind that he collected. But he also forgot to lock it and was stuck just before that pic was took.
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Unread 08-29-2014, 09:29 AM   #15
jwmbishop
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Okay - lots to respond to here! I appreciate your questions slade - a lot better than assumptions of ignorance on my part.

I only added the spacers before this last trip to help hold the ride height. I know a spacer is NOT an addition to rate or free length. My laden weight increases ~575. This has the rear lowering right around 3/4 inch below level. THAT was why I selected the 3/4 inch spacer allowing the height at curb to raise that 3/4 as a test. I now plan to locate springs that will get me my targeted unloaded height at the same spring rate I now have (I like the ride). - I will rate and select springs later (and adjust as I am reconfiguring my layout to place freezers where the back seat is now thus eliminating the cooler thats currently high and behind the rear axle) thats not my question. ANY spring will lower with rate - its not sag it load absorption - what a spring is for (sag is when your height falls below target as the spring looses rate from age wear etc) - if I increase the rate to NOT lower - then unloaded will be too rough and height too high. this rig sees 10K miles a year - only about 250 are in off road trim and loaded (and even that is kept minimal as I trailer to the trail head or nearby - well except this year - long story but the Jeep drove the last two hundred miles in BOTH directions of my 1300 mile tow) - so the blend between off road and on road SHOULD be more toward on road. BUT I want the best - thats why when I was thinking about how to get to a easy way to change spring setup - the H2's 2' lift with air booster (and that was great feature) I am looking at two ways to approach it. One being air spring - the second being hydralic "puck" that add to the spring height (like a jacking weight in a race car). The puck cant add spring rate (which if I am adding 5% to vehicle weight I should also add 5% to spring rate - roughly as geometry changes spring rate to wheel rate) - the air booster adds rate and height.
I love the way this thing handles on road RIGHT where it was at 2.5 no spacer - road manners are great (with both the pits and the ATs), except for the squat when loaded - raising that 3/4 made for a few less grinds on the belly stuff this year.. but noticeably raised the CG empty on highway - not bad but again I lost the lift gains with weight by not changing the rate. If I could get back down to 2.5 empty, throw 500 lbs, flip a switch or turn a knob and STILL have that 2.5 - I would run it that way. But I had to go to 3.25 empty to have 2.5 loaded. I dont want to stiffen the springs (most steps are in 500 lb inch increments - I only need a 100 lb inch increase) THATS what I am looking to accomplish so asked if anyone had experience or opinions on the bags. I am thinking they would really chap - on a trailer or truck you are not asking for such a long travel as on the rocks... and a hydro puck wont add that small % of rate - but wouldnt affect stuff or rebound (rebound limit doesn't change)
Yes I air down when I off road - loaded to 10F\10R, empty to 9F/8R.
I could just build for loaded height on the rocks and let unloaded plan run wild (basically the same thing as setting up a race car to be level on apex with all four tires equally loaded - looks silly on the straight with wedge, bias etc).... but thats giving up road manners and I know I can outsmart a Jeep!
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