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Unread 10-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #76
E8USMCRET
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbaubry View Post
Test drove a 2k13 Sahara Unlimited with the 6 speed manual! I'll have to make another thread about it but just to let ya know. It had not driven a manual transmission since 1997.

I had fun like a kid shifting the Jeep and no stall during my test drive... Except when I parked it at the end and went into reverse... Everything went fine up to the last second when I forgot it I was driving a manual and forgot about it. I stalled it right in it's place! lol.

Anyway, don't worry. The Wrangler is super easy to be driven with a manual! Go for it and save a few $$$...
I owned a 1997 Corvette C5 and it was automatic. It's a huge price difference in a high performance sports car to get a 6 sp. The CJ-5/CJ-7's I drove in the Marines (1982-1984) were new at the time but beat to death. My 2000 Sahara was automatic but had a nagging rattle noise upon acceleration and steep grades. Nobody could figure it out and it was sold off.

All of my beater Datsuns and Toyotas were well used also in excess of 150K. I'm curious how a fresh clutch and a nice tight tranny will feel.

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Unread 10-20-2012, 08:53 PM   #77
Rooster76
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Call and get your free user manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverton34 View Post
I just bought a '13 Rubicon and they have changed the way the auto trans functions yet again. Used to be on the '12 if I left it in the indicated third gear or others it simply wouldn't shift above that gear after you had slowed. Now it sticks in the lowest gear that it automatically shifted down to. I had the indicator in third then stopped for a stop sigh, it would not shift above first without bumping the shifter. It is like a manual mode and you can watch the gear selector number count down on the dash as you slow without touching the shifter. I have not fully explored it and since they no longer supply you with an operators manual I'll need to play with it some more.
I would call up and get your totally free user manual (and radio, and warrenty manuals).
Quote:
FROM USER GUIDE - INSIDE COVER
If you are the first registered retail owner of your
vehicle, you may obtain a complimentary printed
copy of the Owner’s Manual, Navigation/Media
Center Manuals or Warranty Booklet by calling
1-877-426-5337 (U.S.) or 1-800-387-1143 (Canada)
or by contacting your dealer.
You can also download a PDF version here http://www.jeep.com/en/owners/manuals/ (I would recommend putting that copy on your smartphone)

The auto-stick feature is called ERS - Electronic Range Select. It looks like it is described the same in the 2012 manual. Hopefully they will update it for you guys (I've got a stick).

2013 USER MANUAL - Page 426
Quote:
Electronic Range Select (ERS) Operation
The Electronic Range Select (ERS) shift control allows the
driver to limit the highest available gear when the shift
lever is in the DRIVE position. For example, if you shift
the transmission into 3 (third gear), the transmission will
never shift above third gear, but will shift down into
second and first gear normally.
You can switch between DRIVE and ERS mode at any
vehicle speed. When the shift lever is in the DRIVE
position, the transmission will operate automatically, shifting
between all available gears. Tapping the shift lever to
the left (-) will downshift the transmission, activate ERS
mode, display the current gear in the instrument cluster,
and maintain that gear as the top available gear. Once in
ERS mode, tapping the shift lever to the left (-) or right (+)
will change the top available gear.
To exit ERS mode, simply press and hold the shift lever to
the right (+) until “D” is once again displayed in the shift
lever position indicator in the instrument cluster.

WARNING!
Do not downshift for additional engine braking on a
slippery surface. The drive wheels could lose their
grip and the vehicle could skid, causing an accident
or personal injury.

NOTE: To select the proper gear position for maximum
deceleration (engine braking), tap the shift lever to the
left (-) repeatedly as the vehicle slows. The transmission
will shift to the range from which the vehicle can best be
slowed down.
From 2012 USER MANUAL page 392 -
Quote:
Electronic Range Select (ERS) Operation
The Electronic Range Select (ERS) shift control allows the
driver to limit the highest available gear when the shift
lever is in the DRIVE position. For example, if you shift
the transmission into 3 (third gear), the transmission will
never shift above third gear, but will shift down into
second and first gear normally.
You can switch between DRIVE and ERS mode at any
vehicle speed. When the shift lever is in the DRIVE
position, the transmission will operate automatically,
shifting between all available gears. Tapping the shift
lever to the left (-) will downshift the transmission,
activate ERS mode, display the current gear in the
instrument cluster, and maintain that gear as the top
available gear. Once in ERS mode, tapping the shift lever
to the left (-) or right (+) will change the top available
gear.
To exit ERS mode, simply press and hold the shift lever to
the right (+) until “D” is once again displayed in the shift
lever position indicator in the instrument cluster.
WARNING!
Do not downshift for additional engine braking on a
slippery surface. The drive wheels could lose their
grip and the vehicle could skid, causing an accident
or personal injury.

NOTE: To select the proper gear position for maximum
deceleration (engine braking), tap the shift lever to the
left (-) repeatedly as the vehicle slows. The transmission
will shift to the range from which the vehicle can best be
slowed down.
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Unread 10-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #78
Rooster76
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I've got a manual and it's a ton of fun. I enjoy rowing through the gears and the whole experience of it. I REALLY tried to talk myself out of getting a stick. In the end I knew deep down I would have always second guessed it. It would have driven me nuts, no doubt about it. It's my first time owning a stick shift so I cannot compare it much. So hear is my noob take on it.
STICK ADVANTAGES
-Engine Breaking
-Better in snow because you can start in a higher gear
-I'm assuming with a Rubicon in 4-Low it would be nicer to be able to put it in a higher gear vs being a bit bogged down in gearing with an auto.
-Mostly the advantages would be anywhere that you want to keep the gearing in a high gear to lower torque. The new autos have the fancy auto stick thing (ERS) but it will only limit the top gear and not keep it in a higher gear then it wants.
-I'm not sure about the current Autos, in the past going damb near vertical could make an auto stall out. Something about the transmission (torque converter?) not getting enough fluid. I'm sorry for posting such a vague and un-informed point. Hopefully someone will be able to fill in the blanks. Regardless you would have to be going pretty hard-core to run into the problem.
-Slight (who gives a crap) mpg advantage
STICK DISADVANTAGES
-The one that comes right to mind and drives me nuts is, not being able to safely shift in water higher then the bottom of the transmission. Basically about at the bottom of the tub. You can start without clutching in 4-Low to overcome this sort coming. With an auto you can play in the deep stuff and not need to worry about it. No need to stress if you want to reverse out for example. Of course you would want to extend your breathers (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/ext...se-185089.html).
-Drive by wire. Your not directly connected to the throttle. It goes gas->computer->throttle. If you try to double clutch for example to a lower gear. You put it in neutral and hit the gas, and it will just keep the RPM's low. Then all of a sudden the RPM's will jump way the hell up to 2500. I'm guessing at some point there will be a tuner that will help put your foot more in control. I find it livable, but disappointing.
-Keeping Momentum when Upshifting - If your going through sand, or up a climb, and need to keep momentum, but also need to upshift.
-If you hurt any limb (arm,leg) your screwed.
-Cannot hang leg out the door
-Slightly less resale value

AUTO EQUALIZERS
-Autos can use the auto stick (ERS electronic range select) to do engine breaking down steep descents. I wonder if it actually works as well. Being that there is a HDC hill decent control button I kind of doubt it.
-Autos torque converter might give you a bit more low end torque for crawling. I honestly don't understand it enough to say one way or another. With equal rear end axle ratio's I think autos get just a bit of an advantage.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 01:20 PM   #79
dancinmonkey
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There was one time when i wanted to have an auto Jeep and that was in my 2003 wrangler on the side of a huge shale rock slab about 4 feet from the edge of a 3 foot drop that would have ruined my day. BUT, the fact that i was able to deftly put that thing into gear and not slide back and die, along with my friend who may have been crying, made me feel great. I also love shifting getting into traffic and don't even mind it when i am sitting in traffic...daily due to workin on a military post where EVERYONE stops to get an i.d. check.
It is all preference, and you have to decide what it yours. I am on my 3rd jeep, and they have all been manual, but the cars in between those three jeeps have all been autos. I just keep coming back to my wranglers...its complicated.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 02:37 PM   #80
Tbasham
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I pickep up my 13 sport a few weeks ago with a manual and wouldnt change a thing. Coming from a 5sp auto in a cadi cts to the 6sp manual in my jeep was the best thing i ever did. I like having the control. Even with the learning curve of driving off road in a stick i feel it will be alot more fun having to work harder when in a auto its just gas and go.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 03:14 PM   #81
BManz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster76 View Post
STICK DISADVANTAGES
-The one that comes right to mind and drives me nuts is, not being able to safely shift in water higher then the bottom of the transmission. Basically about at the bottom of the tub. You can start without clutching in 4-Low to overcome this sort coming. With an auto you can play in the deep stuff and not need to worry about it.
Actually I would say that playing in water is an advantage for the manual transmission as far as maintenance and durability. True you shouldn't clutch when it's submerged, but when either trans housing is is completely submerged for extended periods, water seeps into the housing.

Water in an automatic can kill its life in a hurry and could leave you stranded while in a manual it's longer and slower death (mixing fuel and gear lube) but you'll still be able to drive home. The manual trans can be easily (and cheaply) drained and refilled whereas the auto is going to cost you a lot more hassle to displace ALL the fluid and replace it. This is an especially important issue (water) because as good as the W5A580 auto trans is in the 2012-13s, it has a very temperamental torque converter clutch when introduced to small amounts of water. Just beware of that when you guys with autos go canoeing in your auto-equipped JKs.

This applies to submerged axles as well!
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Unread 10-22-2012, 06:56 PM   #82
Gecko13
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It's your personal preference. In 2009 i bought my wife a JK Unlimited Sahara with Auto simply because the shifter is a bit too far for her. I just traded in my 2010 Ram for a 2013 JK Unlimited Rubicon Manual because I was bored driving the Ram (too comfy) and we both love the Jeep. My wife agreed for me to get the manual transmission because I seem more focus on the road than driving an auto (often dozing off) lol.
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Unread 10-22-2012, 08:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BManz View Post
...This is an especially important issue (water) because as good as the W5A580 auto trans is in the 2012-13s, it has a very temperamental torque converter clutch when introduced to small amounts of water. Just beware of that when you guys with autos go canoeing in your auto-equipped JKs...
So are you saying that we with the autos should avoid water to keep the Trans from being incapacitated for lack of a better word? Iím not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.
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Unread 10-23-2012, 08:26 AM   #84
BManz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1222 View Post
So are you saying that we with the autos should avoid water to keep the Trans from being incapacitated for lack of a better word? I’m not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.
It depends -- it's not sealed like a submarine. So, you can play in deep water and not be incapacitated right then as long as the breather isn't breached and the seals maintain integrity. However, small amounts of water will infiltrate with extended (say, many minutes at a time) submersion events and you need to check and change fluid more often. BUT -- if an auto's breather is breached or the seals let in enough water when submerged, you can have failure quickly in an auto where fluid condition is critical to function. Water in a manual does not affect function aside from clutching, so you won't be stranded although it mind grind to a halt a few thousand miles down the road if lube is never changed. Another factor is if water does make it into either trans, it promotes corrosion that cannot be reversed by a flush & fill. At least the corrosion in a manual won't halt operation over time like it can in an auto.

So what am I saying? Which is "better"? Autos and manuals are "better than" each other for many reasons. For the majority of city driving an auto may be a better bet. If you want to be fording deep water a lot when off-roading, an auto may also be better for that task (shifting/no-stalling) but a manual is better for longevity/durability if it's going canoeing on a regular basis -- but just don't clutch it when submerged or debris in the water can harm the flywheel surface for the clutch plate. Even at that, I'd try to avoid lots of extended deep water work in an auto and would rather have a manual for that kind of use. I've lost two auto transmissions to water infiltration over the years, all my fault.
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Unread 05-15-2013, 06:31 AM   #85
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i have a 12 rubicon with the auto, only one thing i dont like with the auto and thats when im trying to rock the jeep when in 4 lo the transmision doesnt always drop into gear. selector is in right spot and gauges say its in gear but you give it gas and it just revs up. i would say go standard for better control and i think that shifting is fun. on the daily drive the auto is nice tho
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Unread 05-15-2013, 06:57 AM   #86
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I like a manual because I like it so it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Or who drives what during rock crawling or river fording.

Drive what fits your needs and drive what you like
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Unread 05-15-2013, 07:32 AM   #87
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I have a 2013 stick shift, and here's my quick .02. As a preface, 75% of my driving has been with a stick shift car (learned on a passat, that car was fun)
1. The jeep shifts NOTHING like a smaller car, you will feel like you're driving a truck
2. When wheeling I've never had any issues at all with the stick-shift, but I don't go as extreme as a lot of the guys here
3. I do a fair amount of highway and most of the time I can just leave it in 6th and call it a day, except for real inclines.
4. Except in traffic, I wouldn't trade my stick shift for anything else. You can call it a minivan engine if you like, but with a stick shift it'll sing when you want it to.

EIther way, you're gonna love the jeep.

EDIT: Didn't realize this thread was over a year old- whoops.
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Unread 05-15-2013, 08:57 AM   #88
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haha oh **** I didn't either
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Unread 05-15-2013, 09:09 AM   #89
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To add my $0.02 to the conversation... Before buying my JKU, I was in the hard core "It's a Jeep, so it has to be manual" group. But that's when my TJ was my vehicle that took me to the store and fun weekends to the mountains. We bought my wife a truck, so she could more easily transport 1,000-2,000 lb of food for our ministry (we have a mobile food kitchen, where we make hot meals and serve them in neighborhoods where people are in economic hard ship). When that decision was made, we needed to make my vehicle a "family" car. Once my Jeep had to fill that status, auto was the best decision. I would still prefer manual, but auto is the best choice given my particular circumstances.

All of that nets out to: get what fits your needs.
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Unread 07-31-2014, 04:22 PM   #90
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Saw this thread and had to reply though it is old. The manual is a 6 spd and the auto is a 5 spd. More ratios = better. As a result you get better crawl speeds too. If you smoke your clutch you are on the pedal too much. Manual is more fun in a jeep just my opinion. The decision would have been much harder for me if the auto was a 6 or 8 spd though.
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