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Unread 07-07-2011, 02:17 PM   #76
jwmbishop
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That really makes sense (the vis improvers argument) and makes me believe that old multi-vis (with many heat cycles on it - even if still "clean") just can't "act" thicker so tends to get past the rings and pcv easier!

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Unread 07-08-2011, 12:05 PM   #77
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A couple of good links.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...multigrade-oil

One is pro heavier oils and the other is con, although they both admit each others point.

A couple of more decent articles:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...-oil-selection

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...k-oil-analysis
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Unread 07-10-2011, 05:01 AM   #78
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In regards to tighter tolerances in newer engines this person claims to have researched it:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...-tight-squeeze
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Unread 07-10-2011, 05:09 PM   #79
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His arguement is sound on theory but application is what tells that story.

15 years ago target tolerances for clearances were .001 - .0022, to get there each process has to have a tolerance usually +/-.0005 however at the beginning of the run with fresh tooling the cuts were closer at spec - or tooled slightly over the tooling wear allowance so at the end of the tools life it was slightly over spec in the tolerance - basically using up the +/- over the life of the tooling setup to decrease cost of tooling (material AND labor). Keep in mind tolerances are applied to the od of the crank, the id of the saddle bores and then the bearing manufacturer could be off .0005 as well. If every cut took that .0005 for the target .001 - at assembly you would be at .0025!

Not only are tolerances now tighter yielding a smaller spread of clearance variation over like assemblies the tolerances are even tighter for other aspects such as crush, surface roughness line alignment etc. Surface roughness spec was never mentioned in the article but has a HUGE impact on oil cling. And with computer cutting of the carbides machinists can now get real consistent from piece to piece in that aspect. In other words the actual clearance may be the same - but the surfaces the oil film works with and the bearing seats to are way more controlled.
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Unread 07-10-2011, 09:57 PM   #80
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Mine still burns oil I am now getting about 1200-1300 miles to burn a quart of oil. With 5W-20 I burn 1 quart for every 1000 miles. After I changed to 5W-30 I am getting the 1200-1300 miles before its at the low mark. All I know is that the choice comes down to dealing with my engine burning oil or trading it in on a 2012. I am leaning towards the 2012. If the new 3.6L is not burning oil at such an alarming rate at 51K miles then im sold.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 10:46 AM   #81
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oil consumption

CHRYSLER JEEP should put on there white stickers in the showroom,,with all the information about the jeep that THIS JEEP may burn 1 quart of oil for every 1000 kms or it may not,,,WOUNDER HOW MANY JEEPS would be sold if this information was made to the public,,,NONE would be sold,,,becasue when someone spends 18/25 thousand dollars for a vehicle,,the LAST THING on there mind is checking oil every gas fill up,,THIS IS retarted..i walked into the jeep dealership 6 months ago and handed down 18000.00 dollars for a 2008 jeep wrangler,,the salemans NEVER mentioned,,,hey buddy,,this jeep might burn oil,,JEEP never had a warning sticker on it anywhere saying,,BUDDY this jeep might burn oil,,,NO JEEPS should be burning oil,,and even 1 quart every 1000 kms is UNEXCEPTABLE...my jeep is going threw oil like a dog goes threw hot dogs,,,ive owned it 6 months,,,never taken it off road,,and have put an amazing 8000 kms on it,,,1200 kms after the first oil changed i checked the oil,,,ALMOST DRY,,,thats 2 tanks of gas,,,GET REAL.....its JEEPS responsibility to stand by there products,,were not talking a 80$ microwave here,,,were talking 20 thousand dollar vehicles,,i can see how anyone whos spent 20 grand on a vehicle<<JEEP>>like i did that going threw oil like crazy SHOULD,,WOULD AND CAN be pissed off,,,i know i am,,,i had NO IDEA about oil consumption,,,it wasent on the JEEP website when i was serching for vehicles,,MAYBE cheysler should have put it there becasue its FALSE ADVERTISMENT...if 5 people go and by jeeps and they have NO oil issues and i go buy a jeep and i have oil issues than MY JEEP isnt normal,,even if chrysler states that burning 1 quart every 1000 kms is NORMAL,,if it was NORMAL,,then ALL JEEPS would do this,,they dont all do it,,,just US UNLUCKY ones who had the honor of buying a 20 thousand dollar LEMON,,,,my jeep is still under factory warrenty and SO FAR my dealership is working with me,,HOWEVER they told me chrysler will put up a stink about it...i bet you if i borrowed the money threw chrylser to buy my jeep and i didnt make my payments,,THEY WOULDNT like it,,so why do they expect ppl like us to LIKE the fact were dumping oil in our jeeps like washer fluid????MOST of us have to make monthly JEEP payments,,,our jeeps are 2/3 years old with 30/60 thousand KMS,,,even if it dosent hurt our jeeps,,WE STILL dont like the fact our jeeps do this,,and our friends jeeps DONT do it,,we PAYED money for jeeps we expected to work,,,this oil issue ISNT what i call working...i dont really FEEL good about halling up to the pump and checking my oil all the time,,seeing my jeep has 40000 km,,ppl look at me like,,DUDE,,,ITS BRAN NEW why you checking the oil 2 times a week,,THERE NOT checking there oil,,,,GUYS WE got robbed,,and i WANT a new engine,,,i gotta pay 5 more years on this vehicle,,it aint my fault the jeeps eating it,,,i check my oil,,i get my oil changed on time,,,and i use my jeep good,,,even if my jeep is second hand,,,,100 thousand mile power train warrenty means 100 thousand miles,,,,mines got 30000...this is so frustrating,,i should have stayed with FORD
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Unread 11-02-2011, 11:07 AM   #82
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If you have an '07 or an '08 that is burning oil this way, I would dump it as soon as it makes financial sense for you to do so. These engines were assembled WRONG. The problem isn't going to imporve, and that kind of oil being burnt is NOT normal, no matter what the Chrysler lawyers say. Cripes, I had a flathead V8 that didn't go through that much oil!


If you care to look, check your engine block number. I've got 20 bucks that says every single oil-burner in this thread has an engine assembled in Sausalito, Mexico.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 11:22 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstrubberg View Post
If you have an '07 or an '08 that is burning oil this way, I would dump it as soon as it makes financial sense for you to do so. These engines were assembled WRONG. The problem isn't going to imporve, and that kind of oil being burnt is NOT normal, no matter what the Chrysler lawyers say. Cripes, I had a flathead V8 that didn't go through that much oil!


If you care to look, check your engine block number. I've got 20 bucks that says every single oil-burner in this thread has an engine assembled in Sausalito, Mexico.
i cant dump it,,,i just bought it,,payed 18000.00..i have 2 options,,i can sell it<<>>in which ill just pass the problem onto someone else which i REFUSE to do..or chrysler can actually HONOR there 100000 power train warrenty,,and fix my engine,,,,according to my dealership,,chrysler claims that 2/3 quarts between oil changes 6000 km is normal,,,i just dumped in 2 quart after 1200 km,,my dealership is actually going to work with me,,and are on my side,,and THEY WANNA BE,,,i bought a new dodge caliber from them,,26 grand,,and a 2008 jeep,,,18 grand
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Unread 11-02-2011, 11:26 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstrubberg View Post
If you have an '07 or an '08 that is burning oil this way, I would dump it as soon as it makes financial sense for you to do so. These engines were assembled WRONG. The problem isn't going to imporve, and that kind of oil being burnt is NOT normal, no matter what the Chrysler lawyers say. Cripes, I had a flathead V8 that didn't go through that much oil!


If you care to look, check your engine block number. I've got 20 bucks that says every single oil-burner in this thread has an engine assembled in Sausalito, Mexico.
Not from this thread, but here is an oil burner from the Trenton plant:
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Unread 11-02-2011, 11:35 AM   #85
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im sorry that im so MAD,,but the reason why i bought a jeep is becasue i ALWAYS heard they were TANKS,,hardly any up keep and lasted and lasted,,WHICH I KNOW THEY DO..i just had the LUCKY of buying a oil eater,,INWHICH ill be proud to drive if chryslers fixes the problem,,if they give me the run around,,,they just stole 18000.00 dollars from me..i AINT RICH and i cant afford a new engine..and i NEVER knew ANYTHING about oil consumption prior to the last few days,,,if i would have KNEW i wouldnt have bought a jeep,,,i guess its MY FAULT for not doing reserch.. but when i decided to get a jeep,,i went to jeep.ca and did rearch and OIL CONSUMPTION wasent mentioned on there site,,,IF ITS NORMAL,,why isnt it thereeeeeeeeeee?????
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Unread 11-02-2011, 11:46 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodrick316 View Post
im sorry that im so MAD,,but the reason why i bought a jeep is becasue i ALWAYS heard they were TANKS,,hardly any up keep and lasted and lasted,,WHICH I KNOW THEY DO..i just had the LUCKY of buying a oil eater,,INWHICH ill be proud to drive if chryslers fixes the problem,,if they give me the run around,,,they just stole 18000.00 dollars from me..i AINT RICH and i cant afford a new engine..and i NEVER knew ANYTHING about oil consumption prior to the last few days,,,if i would have KNEW i wouldnt have bought a jeep,,,i guess its MY FAULT for not doing reserch.. but when i decided to get a jeep,,i went to jeep.ca and did rearch and OIL CONSUMPTION wasent mentioned on there site,,,IF ITS NORMAL,,why isnt it thereeeeeeeeeee?????
At the risk of adding to your aggravation...
The use of the word 'normal' is a misnomer.
What it really means is, they won't take action until the oil consumption crosses a line, which is 1qt/1000 miles.
Most all the manufacturers have their share of oil burners, and they use the same limit before taking action.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 11:57 AM   #87
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At the risk of adding to your aggravation...
The use of the word 'normal' is a misnomer.
What it really means is, they won't take action until the oil consumption crosses a line, which is 1qt/1000 miles.
Most all the manufacturers have their share of oil burners, and they use the same limit before taking action.
thanks ronjenx,,,,yeah im aggervated,,mines burning 2 quart per 1200 kms,,so 2 quart per 900/miles..i still got 16 month of warrenty on the power train,,my thing is tho,,,EVERYONE says as time goes on it gets WORSE,,so it seems like chrysler is putting it off until the engine BLOWS after the power train warrenty expires,,so they aint gotta deal with it,,,its kinda like a DR putting a band aid on a broken leg,,and letting the person sit there untill infection sets in,,,if chrysler KNOWS its going to continue to get worse,,why are they putting that on the shoulders of there custumers???the engines DONT WORK right..and ANYONE who had a jeep and had to dump even a quart into it every 1000 miles WOULDNT like it,,,just dosent make sense
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Unread 11-02-2011, 12:00 PM   #88
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It's not normal, it's the level at which they will do something under warranty.

Normal is a fraction of avquart over 5k miles.

That's the first block number I've seen that wasn't from the Mexico plant. Thanks for that. Points to a wider problem.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 12:06 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by rodrick316 View Post
thanks ronjenx,,,,yeah im aggervated,,mines burning 2 quart per 1200 kms,,so 2 quart per 900/miles..i still got 16 month of warrenty on the power train,,my thing is tho,,,EVERYONE says as time goes on it gets WORSE,,so it seems like chrysler is putting it off until the engine BLOWS after the power train warrenty expires,,so they aint gotta deal with it,,,its kinda like a DR putting a band aid on a broken leg,,and letting the person sit there untill infection sets in,,,if chrysler KNOWS its going to continue to get worse,,why are they putting that on the shoulders of there custumers???the engines DONT WORK right..and ANYONE who had a jeep and had to dump even a quart into it every 1000 miles WOULDNT like it,,,just dosent make sense
I don't understand why they are not covering it at that rate of consumption.
Seems like it would be an environmental issue, too.

Quote:
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That's the first block number I've seen that wasn't from the Mexico plant. Thanks for that. Points to a wider problem.
I wish more people would have posted their oil-burning engine numbers.
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Unread 11-02-2011, 12:25 PM   #90
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I don't understand why they are not covering it at that rate of consumption.
Seems like it would be an environmental issue, too.


I wish more people would have posted their oil-burning engine numbers.
i just found out i had this problem 2 days ago,,i been putting oil into for 3 months and IT NEVER dawned on me that i had a problem,,so i took the jeep to the dealership yesterday and we have started the PROCESS,,chrysler wont go by what i say,,they will only go by what my dealership says,,,and my dealership has no record of the oil i been putting it becasue i just ADD oil when im getting gas..SOOO there process begins now,,but there are steps,,and my dealership is perrty positive ill get a new engine,,HOWEVER they did tell me that chrysler can be *******s during this kinda thing,,,im perrty optamistic ill get something done,,,mines burning way more than chrysler says is normal,,i just need documented proof,,and my word of mouth isnt documented proff,,i have to take my jeep back to the dealer ship 1000 kms from now and there going to measure the oil,,after 5000 kms there going to see how much im burning and START
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