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Unread 07-07-2015, 05:43 PM   #1
73azbronco
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2013 3.6 startup noise after sitting a few days

So my 2013 3.6 makes what I'll describe as valve train tapping/clacking for a few seconds after startup if the jeep has sat more than a few days. If I drive it every day or so, no noise. Only happens after sitting. Been doing it pretty much since new. Dealer says no worries. I use Mopar synthetic, whatever that is. It is not piston/rod slap, or other noises associated with a motor.

Google search reveals all the usual answers: wrong filter (which none have a backflow valve BTW), it's normal, to it's going to explode. Dealers all say it's normal. No one has had a motor die as a result of this.

I'm a mechanic, and engineer, and it just doesn't seem right to make this noise.

My thought, is anyone using 5-30 mobile one and have this startup noise? I'm thinking the mopar syn is just not quite right.

It seems Fiat allows 5-30 oil instead of the 5-20 in the book. Fiat 9.55535-S1


My 2012 had the valve tap bad head noise, the bad water pump noise, the bad alternator noise, the bad pulley noise. I know the noises. , hence that's why I now have a 2013.

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Unread 07-07-2015, 05:47 PM   #2
Moezer
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That's not the problem the problem is the oil is too thin so when it sits the pats aren't really lubricated like with thicker oils

What u could do is just crank the engine over once or twice before starting that should flow the oil first
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Unread 07-07-2015, 06:00 PM   #3
73azbronco
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I think since this is a computer controlled startup, once you hit the key it really doesn't crank like old school, it goes into start mode which means it's going to try and start and you may actually cause some bad codes by interrupting the start cycle. I might try it though. but, need to wait till next week

I agree on oil thinness, we don't need 5-20 here in AZ. Ever. A BMW I had with a slightly more advanced motor.... uses 10-60.
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Unread 07-07-2015, 08:37 PM   #4
Moezer
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The Jk does not start as soon. As u turn the key it doesn't have an auto start like in other cars not sure about urs but mines a manual so I can just pop the clutch and cut it lol
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Unread 07-07-2015, 08:54 PM   #5
ncb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moezer
The Jk does not start as soon. As u turn the key it doesn't have an auto start like in other cars not sure about urs but mines a manual so I can just pop the clutch and cut it lol
The JKs with automatic transmissions have the tip start feature. The six speed models do not.
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Unread 07-07-2015, 09:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ncb View Post

The JKs with automatic transmissions have the tip start feature. The six speed models do not.
Ahhh good to know
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Unread 07-08-2015, 12:34 AM   #7
rich6700
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I would try a different weight oil. My 2012 doesn't like 5w30, it was using a quart every 1500 miles. I switched to 10w30 Mobil 1 and have not had any more issues.
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Unread 07-08-2015, 02:07 AM   #8
73azbronco
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Thanks, im waiting for next oil due in a few months and try the thicker 10-30 at that time. May even try some Lucas additive.
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Unread 07-08-2015, 04:10 AM   #9
TheBoss
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Originally Posted by 73azbronco View Post
Thanks, im waiting for next oil due in a few months and try the thicker 10-30 at that time. May even try some Lucas additive.
Fwiw my 2012 auto does this as well I use Penzoil Platinum synthetic 5w30. It currently has 59, 000 miles on it and has pretty much done it since it was new. Sometimes if I turn the key to the on position leave it for a few seconds and then slowly turn it to crank it doesn't make that horrific valve noise. I wonder if it has anything to do with the variable valve timing sequence?
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Unread 07-08-2015, 05:17 AM   #10
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Are the cam phasers going to be OK long term if you're using oil with considerably higher viscosity like that? Hmm...I don't know guys....

These engines have dual stage oil pumps and a few other fancy features. Mine in particular sounds like it's going to fly apart upon cold starting in the winter. But it seems to be normal across lots of brands these days due to the technology in these things. Note that by "normal" I just mean that they all do it, not that an engine should necessarily.
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Unread 07-08-2015, 12:35 PM   #11
73azbronco
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A viscosity bump of that minor a difference, especially tempered with it's location, here in AZ where I kid you not, when I get in to start my "cold" car the temp gage is already two or three needle widths off the bottom, should not matter even with the closer tolerances in the valve train. I submit it will help. Remember, the viscosity is the manufactures way to get "most" operating environments covered. If I was in Nome AK in the winter, I may want to go to 0-w20.

I think the issue is leakback out of the lifters or even the cam tensioner losing prime. Hence my desire to see if different oils would solve the issue. Seems as a previous post notes, 10-30 did not help.

Anyone use an old school molly additive?

If the startup noise was normal, why doesn't it make the noise when you start it up within a day or minutes of driving it?

Right, it's not normal.

I've owned no other vehicle that makes this startup racket. BMW, Mini, Ford, Honda, VW. None.


Jeep cares, what have you heard on this?
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Unread 07-08-2015, 01:01 PM   #12
jwmbishop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73azbronco View Post
I've owned no other vehicle that makes this startup racket. BMW, Mini, Ford, Honda, VW. None.
Cant compare to non VVT. just by nature of how the VVT works and uses oil flow regulated in both volume and PSi - makes for each design to be a completely different animal. And as it can take time to drain enough to make noise - it doesn't surprise me its nice and quiet after 4 days but noisy after 5.
And remember - the temp gauge does NOT show actual temp like the older direct read gauges - only NORMAL (low, high or over) as the computer determines for the current conditions.
I'd be scared to run moly - I've seen it clump up in lifters and galleys. Being VVT that would be a bad thing as moly cling takes away the lifter's usable volume and would make them hyper sensitive.
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Unread 07-08-2015, 05:59 PM   #13
73azbronco
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Agreed on the molly, but just thinking out loud.

My BMW was VVT the S54 M3 motor, the mini is VVT, and the VW 1.8T is VVT. I ford duratec is VVT .

None of those motors make a tink during start.

Well, except for the VW, but only if it was three quarts low...... Son learned that lesson.




Hello, Jeep cares???????
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Unread 07-08-2015, 06:13 PM   #14
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I'll chime in here as well my 2013 rattles as well on startup, but just like the op only after it has sat for a few days. Sounds similar to an old engine with a lifter that bleeds down. Dealer isn't worried but I don't like it. I have mopar oil and filter, they engineered the engine with the oil and filter I'm using, so this adds to my confusion. Seems common but as others have stated doesn't seem like it should be "normal". Will stay subscribed in case someone comes up with a solution.
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Unread 07-08-2015, 06:40 PM   #15
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Why not hold the accelerator at WOT and crank it to prime the oil pump, if it's been sitting for a while. Oil will naturally bleed out of the lifters and even the check valve in the oil filter after a few days. Completely normal. Thought OP was a mechanic...
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