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Unread 09-29-2013, 10:44 AM   #1
Tagg
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2007 JK Starter keeps starting

I have this problem with the starter, sometimes maybe 1 out of 25 times that I turn the key and the starter keeps wanting to stay energized for about 5-6 seconds. Is there something called a tip start ? I talked to someone and they said it sounds as the tip starter is going bad. I'm not sure what they were referring to, is it the auto start from the key switch assembly ? Has anyone else seen this problem or is it a problem that may be repaired by replacing the ignition key assembly ? Thanks.

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Unread 09-29-2013, 11:29 AM   #2
VEGASROBBI
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Is your tachometer working when it overcranks or is at 0?
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Unread 09-29-2013, 12:30 PM   #3
zjilla
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Mine does the same depending on which key fab i was using. I have 3 diffrent set of keys. Figured out which one it was and quit using it. Never had a problem since. It felt like the key fob got stuck in the crank position.

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Unread 09-29-2013, 01:46 PM   #4
VEGASROBBI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjilla View Post
Mine does the same depending on which key fab i was using. I have 3 diffrent set of keys. Figured out which one it was and quit using it. Never had a problem since. It felt like the key fob got stuck in the crank position.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using JeepForum
Tip start incorporates an anti-grind feature so it will disengage the starter even if the key sticks. Many JK's do not have one touch start.
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Unread 10-01-2013, 11:44 AM   #5
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Here's a Service Bulletin that may (or may not) be applicable:
NUMBER: 08-023-07
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: October 06, 2007
SUBJECT:
Long Crank Time Due To Possible Contact Of Camshaft Sensor To Camshaft Gear
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the engine camshaft sensor.
MODELS:
2007 (JK) Wrangler
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 3.8L engine (sales code
EGT).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience one of the following conditions:
a). Long engine crank time.
b). Two engine start attempts prior to engine starting.
c). Due to the “TIP Start Feature” on automatic transmission equipped vehicles, once the
ignition key / switch has been released from the “START” position, the starter may stay
engaged for up to 10 seconds while the engine attempts to start.
The above conditions may be due to the position of the camshaft sensor to the camshaft
gear. The sensor spacer gasket may have come loose during engine assembly and
caused the camshaft sensor to be adjusted too close or in contact with the camshaft gear.
DIAGNOSIS:
If the above condition is present perform the Repair Procedure.
PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description
1 04686353 Sensor, Camshaft
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. Disconnect and isolate the negative battery cable from the battery.
2. Disconnect the camshaft sensor electrical connector (Fig. 1).
3. Clean the area around the camshaft sensor and bore.
4. Remove the camshaft sensor mounting bolt.
5. Remove the camshaft sensor from engine with a pulling and rotating motion.
6. Verify that the old o-ring on the camshaft sensor was removed with the old camshaft
sensor.
7. Apply a couple of drops of engine oil to the new camshaft sensor o-ring.
NOTE: Verify that the paper spacer is in position at the end / tip of the camshaft
sensor.
8. Install the new camshaft sensor to the engine and rotate into position.
9. Push the new camshaft sensor down until contact is made with the camshaft gear.
10. While holding the new camshaft sensor in position against the camshaft gear, install
and tighten the camshaft mounting bolt. Tighten the bolt to 14 Nm (125 in. lbs.).
11. Connect the camshaft sensor lead to the engine harness connector.
12. Connect the negative battery cable to the battery.

Fig. 1 CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR 3.8L
1 - Camshaft Sensor To Engine Harness Connector
2 - Camshaft Sensor Electrical Lead
3 - Camshaft Sensor
4 - Camshaft Sensor Mounting Bolt
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Unread 10-02-2013, 02:59 PM   #6
11JKGIRL
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I had this same problem when I got my 07 JK. The dealer didnt believe me, cause Im a girl, tried to tell me it was normal! NO It's not normal for the ignition to continue turning when the engine is running. I wanted to tell him he's a moron and few other words but I held my tongue. It took several trips back to the dealer until it finally did it when Serv. Mgr. started it up. Then they finally looked it up and found the bulletin. It is a factory defect and they will fix it.
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Unread 10-02-2013, 04:24 PM   #7
ronjenx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagg View Post
I have this problem with the starter, sometimes maybe 1 out of 25 times that I turn the key and the starter keeps wanting to stay energized for about 5-6 seconds. Is there something called a tip start ? I talked to someone and they said it sounds as the tip starter is going bad. I'm not sure what they were referring to, is it the auto start from the key switch assembly ? Has anyone else seen this problem or is it a problem that may be repaired by replacing the ignition key assembly ? Thanks.
Are you saying the starter stays engaged for 5-6 seconds AFTER the engine fires up and is running on its own?
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Unread 10-02-2013, 11:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronjenx View Post
Are you saying the starter stays engaged for 5-6 seconds AFTER the engine fires up and is running on its own?
That's right Ron. For tip start to work properly several things must happen. One you must have a valid crank signal(CKP). Two you must have a valid cam signal(CMP). When I say valid I mean within 2-3% variation of the learned trigger wheel or the PCM will reject it.

Then you must have CKP - CMP synchrozation, the relationship between the CKP and CMP signals. The CKP - CMP synch is a PITA for tuners and engine swappers alike. I believe it is leftover from the K car timing belt days so when the T-belt slipped the engine would stop running to prevent damage. Chrysler puts a lot, to much weight into the CKP - CMP synch IMO.

Then after this valid CKP and CMP signals are received and verified synched the engine must pass through a predetermined rpm and so many milliseconds later the starter is disengaged.

That is why if the CMP sensor or trigger wheel(timing gear) is damaged the engine continues to crank after it is already running. The PCM will look for a valid CMP signal for several seconds until it determines the signal is corrupt or missing then it stops looking and reverts to the CKP sensor for engine operation.

An interesting side note, the A/C, charging system, cooling fans, Tip start and many other functions are disabled until a valid CKP - CMP is reached or the CMP signal is rejected.

The tachometer will not read until the above conditions are met; therefore, does the tach work while it is overcranking?
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Unread 10-03-2013, 07:13 AM   #9
Lenny7
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Hill assist?
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Unread 10-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjilla View Post
Mine does the same depending on which key fab i was using. I have 3 diffrent set of keys. Figured out which one it was and quit using it. Never had a problem since. It felt like the key fob got stuck in the crank position.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using JeepForum
nvm. it did it again to me today
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Unread 10-03-2013, 01:26 PM   #11
11JKGIRL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjilla View Post

nvm. it did it again to me today
Sounds like you may have a bad ignition switch if it's sticking. Totally different problem. When I had the issue the key would turn back but the ignition would keep turning over for a few seconds with the engine running. The dealer replaced the defective part as per the service bulletin.
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