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Unread 10-17-2011, 08:57 PM   #1
Puddlejumper87
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2010 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Key West, florida
Posts: 9
I just experienced the worst Jeep dealership and services that I have ever received f

On 13th of October at 10:00am, my wife and I dropped our 2005 Jeep Liberty off at Duncan's Auto Sales, Inc. on 1618 N. Roosevelt Blvd., Key West, FL 33040 for a State of Delaware vehicle safety inspection. Shortly after we dropped off the car we received a call notifying us that the brakes needed to be replaced because the breaks were worn into the rotors. My wife okayed the replacement of the brakes and rotor's. Later that evening after receiving a call from the Service Adviser, Mr. JC Schooler, telling us that the car was available and ready for pick up. At around 3:00pm we arrived at Duncan's Auto Sales, received our copy of the SF634208 Motor Vehicle Repair Sheet, paid our bill and retrieved our keys. We proceeded to drive the vehicle to my place of residence at , Key West, FL 33040 ; 1.9 miles away from the dealership. Upon arriving home I noticed that there was grayish black smoke rolling from the rear tires, on closer inspection I could not touch the tires or the surrounding area because the surface was too hot and I was afraid of getting burned. As we had just retrieved the car from Duncan's Auto Sales dealership for a Delaware State Safety inspection and brake replacement my wife and I thought it was odd to be hot and smoking. We did not address the issue right away due to the fact that I am a military member in the US Coast Guard and needed to deploy on a Coast Guard Cutter that evening waiting for my arrival to depart at 4:00pm.

The car was not driven until the next evening of October 14th, when my wife (Jackie) drove 0.6 miles to pick up my children (9 yr old Briar Beckman and 12 month old Charles Beckman) from the MWR youth center and child development. Once the children were in the car my wife drove 3.4 miles to retrieve me from my deployment and than another 3.4 mile return to our home on omitted. Once again when we returned home the brakes were smoking and we thought that the dealership might have put a cleaner on the brakes and that was what was causing the issue.

On the 15th of October my wife drove our car with my 12 month old Charles to Winn-Dixie 1.4 miles away from the house to help a friend who had a car issue with their child aboard and returned the 1.4 miles home.

On the 16th of October my wife took my 9yr old and 12 month old to church at address 5727 2nd Avenue, Stock Island, FL 3.2 miles and returned home after services driving another 3.2 mile once again the brakes were smoking and at this point I was concerned for the safety of my family and determined that it was not a cleaner or solvent that was placed on the brakes.

On Monday October 17th at 10:00am my wife and I drove our Jeep back to Duncan's Auto Sales 1.9 miles away from our house to put it in the shop for the Brakes smelling, the rims heating, and generally to hot to touch anything in that area. The brakes were smoking when we arrived.

At 1:45pm on October 17th we received a call from Mr. JC Schooner (The Service Adviser) for Duncan's Auto Sales notifying us that the calipers were stuck and repeatedly saying that it was nothing that they had done on the 13th of October when we had dropped it off. Mr. Schooner offered to replace the brakes and rotors free of charge but quoted us $500 to replace both rear calipers. My wife stated to the adviser that this issue should have been found during brake replacement, or the test drive, or during the inspection. Prior to us dropping the 2005 Jeep Liberty off to the dealership we had had no issues with the car, and had no previous reports of problems on prior inspections. There was no brake or caliper issue at the time of drop off to our knowledge, and I have never had the brakes smoke or the area on the rims be so hot that I could not touch them. At 2:30pm my wife called to find out more information about the car and Mr. JC Schooner called her back shortly after and told my wife to remove the car from the dealership's lot or he would charge us a storage fee. Once again Duncanís Auto Sales endangered the lives of me, my wife and my children if we were to retrieve the car with the issue not fixed.

The basis for my legal action would be that Duncan's Auto Sales either blatantly did not inform us of a possible life threatening problem with the car or they did not do a proper inspection on the car and potentially put our lives at risk again. At this point I can not even confirm that a proper inspection was done, or that any work was preformed on the vehicle. My confidence is lost in this Jeep Dealership and I will never do business there again. If the problem is not dealt with by the close of business on the 18th of October I will be seeking legal counsel. I have always loved the Jeep brand and have been a long supporter as has many military members, but this may have changed my mind due to the horrible customer service and the blatant disregard for human life and safety.

I hope this Email opens your eyes to an issue in your company that I believe that you were unaware of. I will be posting this on the Jeep Forums as well as creating a Review site of my experiences to notify others of the issues that I experienced. If you have any further questions my contact information is below.

Very Respectfully,

Gregory A. Beckman


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Unread 10-18-2011, 11:03 AM   #2
Puddlejumper87
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Before I update on the events that have unfolded today, I would like to thank you all for taking the time to read my post and respond. Now on to the good stuff.

18th October 2011

Duncan Auto received my letter this morning and called my wife Jackie's phone at 0953 am, we missed the call and Duncan Auto did not leave a message. Shortly after at 1013 am we received a phone call on my phone. I was unable to answer due to the fact that I was driving, although my wife took the call from the passenger seat of my 4 door JK Wrangler Unlimited. This is a paraphrase of the conversation (I would have got it ord for word if i was not driving and had a pin and paper).

Greg (from Duncan Auto) "I received your letter this morning and I spoke with the technician and he said that they said the brakes and rotors were rusted and so where the calipers"

Jackie (my wife) stopped him mid sentence "The technician never told me that the calipers were rusted when I was told I needed new brakes and rotors" She proceeded to tell him that the right caliper had been replaced 2 years ago and that left was replaced by warranty shortly before that."

At this point Greg was taken back from this new information that we were never informed of the possibly life threatening issue with the Jeep.
Greg (From Duncan Auto) "I will over see them work on the car today"

Jackie (my wife) "I refuse to pay for the caliper replacement when I was not told about the error to begin with. Will there be a charge for the repairs?" My wife restated that Duncan Auto not only did not inform us of the issue that they knew about but that the potentially put our lives at risk by allowing us to drive off the lot with a Jeep in that condition.


Greg (From Duncan Auto) "I will call u back when i find out if they are replacing it at no cost"

Greg hung up the phone. At no time did we state that it was ok for them to proceed with maintenance or replacement of parts on our vehicle, And my wife clearly stated that we will not pay for any repairs done. If I find out that the have touched the car and are going to try to charge me I will take legal action immediately. We are currently waiting on a call from Greg (from Duncan Auto) on if there is a charge, and if they have touched my car.

Gregory Beckman
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Unread 10-18-2011, 11:56 AM   #3
bobjp
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They're lying. They screwed something up when replacing the pads and rotor that caused the drag issue you're having. Come on, BOTH rear brakes were smoking? BOTH?!?! There is no coincidence here.

I'd guess they either didn't installed the pads correctly, or they didn't adjust the parking brake correctly.

It's unfortunate that you didn't investigate the issue further before taking it back in. Because you have no evidence (and it doesn't sound like you've done brake work before), it's going to be difficult for you to argue against knowledgable liars. You're just going to have to stand firm.
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Unread 10-18-2011, 12:02 PM   #4
MONSooNmonkey
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Sounds like they forgot to adjust your wear spacer after installing new pads.
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Unread 10-18-2011, 02:44 PM   #5
Puddlejumper87
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Bobjp,

I have installed brakes before on both of my jeeps, The only reason that the issue was not corrected and I did not have the time to look at it was due to the fact that as soon as we picked up the vehicle I jumped on the cutter and was deployed. My wife knowing no better thought nothing of it, and come on it was just in for a brake change and safety inspection! I should not have to worry about there being issues when it comes back from the shop, and for the most mundane and easy task of changing the brakes!! I am highly upset with the level of un willingness that this shop has had to admit that there was a mistake made.

I think that you missed the part where i was not home for a couple of days in my original email, and post. This email went not only to the dealership, the dealerships owner, the regional HQ and the district HQ offices. As well if the issue is not dealt with then this will also be sent to the local and state news. I will build countless websites, an add campaign, and make it my life goal to revoke there ability to ever work on a Jeep again.

Today they admitted to knowing about the problem and blatantly put my family and myself at risk by not warning us and having us take it off the lot. I take this blatant and udder disregard for human life very seriously!!! It is my job as a USCG member and a law abiding citizen to serve and protect the people in this country!!! if this means raising hell and pointing out a brake down in the system then that is what I am willing to do.

By going to them for service on our vehicles we are putting our lives and the lives of our family's in there hands, and they clearly can not handle this responsibility and do not deserve to keep it if there practices are not changed or fixed.

Ever piece of paper in that office and that I received from them has the phrase "Customer satisfaction guaranteed" But there is no need for this if they die due to there shotty service.

Respectfully
Greg
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Unread 10-20-2011, 02:38 PM   #6
gmiller0737
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I am not sticking up for the dealership,but as a Master Technician I can tell you it's likely nothing they did wrong when the calipers were retracted they stuck it's not something you can see as it's inside the caliper,about the only thing that they may not have done is not test driving it far enough,The plastic pistons are known for being more prone to sticking,As the old pads wore the pistons in the caliper gradualy extended, To install new pads the piston needs to be retracted, One or more things that could have caused them to stick is Debris built up in the caliper due to moisture absorbtion,A swolen plastic piston,Debris built up underneath the dust boot from being from a area that uses road salt,the only fix is to replace or rebuild the calipers.
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Unread 10-20-2011, 02:47 PM   #7
Boodyrider
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I guess my question is why you would continue driving a vehicle after the initial drive home if you "feared for your safety" and were "afraid to touch the wheel" because it was so hot.

A test drive should have found the problem.

Didn't know one could have a Delaware safety inspection done in Florida
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Unread 10-20-2011, 04:19 PM   #8
phase888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boodyrider View Post
I guess my question is why you would continue driving a vehicle after the initial drive home if you "feared for your safety" and were "afraid to touch the wheel" because it was so hot.
When I first read this I was kind of thinking the same thing. I certainly hope things work out in the OP's favor but I'm not sure if in the same situation I would have driven it any further than the first problem moment. Or, well, admitted to the dealer that I'd driven it any further if I had to drive it. That's a pretty touchy situation there!

I'm not fond of my local dealer where I bought my latest Jeep. They did a refresh (oil, air filter, etc.) on it from what I can tell when it came in and used a number of non-HO parts on the 4.7HO. I still need to pull the spark plugs before it gets too cold and check them! The parts guy is still pretty adamant there is no difference at all between the two engines.
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Unread 10-20-2011, 05:38 PM   #9
kg4kzv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmiller0737 View Post
I am not sticking up for the dealership,but as a Master Technician I can tell you it's likely nothing they did wrong when the calipers were retracted they stuck it's not something you can see as it's inside the caliper,about the only thing that they may not have done is not test driving it far enough,The plastic pistons are known for being more prone to sticking,As the old pads wore the pistons in the caliper gradualy extended, To install new pads the piston needs to be retracted, One or more things that could have caused them to stick is Debris built up in the caliper due to moisture absorbtion,A swolen plastic piston,Debris built up underneath the dust boot from being from a area that uses road salt,the only fix is to replace or rebuild the calipers.

Another thing comes to mind.

I worked at a brake and muffler shop for a while. The Master tech showed me to put the caliper over the rotor to retract it. As a shade tree I was taught to use the old pad and a c-clamp. This as you know I am sure is to prevent the piston from cocking in the bore and getting stuck.

But I had gotten the correct tool to do this job. and I was told by a Master Technician was a waste of my money.

Also during that time we had one return with the tires near on fire. I did the tear down to find what went wrong because I was the only one the boss knew for sure had not done the original brake job on as there was 4 of us trusted to do this type of job. only the one was a certified tech. the rest of us were in training. The tech was supposed to double check our work.

I found that both rear calipers had the pads loaded backwards in them. Needless to say the tech. and another guy were sent home that day never to return.

To satisfy the customer we replaced everything in the rear brakes right down to new brake hoses free of charge.


To the Op it is possible as gmiller0737 posted that a caliper can freeze up or even leak from being retracted but not do so for a while after driving the vehicle. I have seen this a few times myself. But I have never seen 2 do this before if properly cleaned and retracted...

I don't know if anyone remembers when the ceramic pistons first came out those thing would stick if you did everything right. Use something to pry them back and you could be guaranteed it would hang up. We always replaced them as part of a brake job.

If the plastic ones are this bad seems like they should have included them as part of the brake job.

Something did just come to mind. We are assuming the pistons stuck. But it could be the slide pins. I have not done a brake job on a Liberty or any new Jeep. But I would say there has to be some type of slide pins in there.

If these are hanging up the caliper then this is a real issue with the mechanic. These should always be inspected and lubed with every brake job. In areas where the roads are heavily salted it would not hurt to check them every year!!!

Either way I would think the dealership should be handling this better since their hands where the last things put on these brakes.

Chris
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