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Unread 07-08-2010, 08:45 PM   #31
sh13lds21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
I'm not questioning whether or not it restricts airflow, but whether it can improve the airflow so drastically over the stock system...which, according to a LOT of threads on this forum, it can't. Every bit of solid information that I can find says that the stock intake system is more than adequate for the 4.0's air requirements. Thus, any extra air the cowl intake can bring in...isn't needed or used. Furthermore, since the computer doesn't know what intake is feeding the throttle body, it can't adjust to it. Speed-density computers calculate air intake from readings of air pressure, air temperature and the position of the blade within the throttle body...so changes to the intake will have no real effect.

Now, if we're moving the intake to make room for something else under the hood...well, that's cool. Go for it, says me. I just don't think that it gives noticeable power...certainly nothing detectable without a dyno test.

P.S. If all it took was a cowl intake to increase mileage by 1 to 1.5 MPG, do you not think that Jeep would build them that way and advertise the hell out of it?
i didnt do this mod for more air flow i did it for colder air from outside the engine compartment, which this setup does flow more air than stock because the windstar intake is a straight through design.

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Unread 07-08-2010, 09:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sh13lds21 View Post
i didnt do this mod for more air flow i did it for colder air from outside the engine compartment, which this setup does flow more air than stock because the windstar intake is a straight through design.
I'm not disputing this...it may very well flow more than the stock intake. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how much it flows. Think of it this way...there's a lot more air outside your house than there is inside your house...but your lungs can only take in so much in one breath. So, it doesn't matter whether you're outside or inside...you still have more than enough air to breathe.

And yes, it's a good mod if you want to relocate the air intake. That's a great reason to do it, and I think the cowl intake is a great way to do it. It doesn't make more power, though, until you hit somewhere around 4500 RPM...and even then, we're talking about a 3% increase.

Also, even when you're getting cold air from the cowl, you're still putting it through an uninsulated intake tube (heat gain) and into an aluminum intake manifold (MASSIVE heat gain). If you want to claim some mileage, then okay...your data is your data, and I'll believe you. But the only dyno sheets I've seen all state that there's no practical power gain until well above your practical powerband.

With all that said, I think it's a cool mod to make, and if someone wants to do a real CAI, this is about the only cost-effective way to do it.
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Unread 07-08-2010, 10:34 PM   #33
J03_TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
you're still putting it through an uninsulated intake tube (heat gain) and into an aluminum intake manifold (MASSIVE heat gain).
I swear I read a link that explained why the fast air moving through that new intake tube was enough to keep it cool because of the volume of air vs. the surface area of the intake tube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
With all that said, I think it's a cool mod to make, and if someone wants to do a real CAI, this is about the only cost-effective way to do it.
I think after all my reading it is the only way that makes sense. (I think I read that somewhere too)
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Unread 07-08-2010, 10:57 PM   #34
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If you can get that link for me, I'd love to take a look at it. At least the intake tubing isn't aluminum...that would make the situation worse due to the heat transfer.

In all honesty, I'm planning on doing this mod for space/clearance reasons, and while I don't plan on seeing any power from it at all (or any mileage) I think I can manage to lower the intake temperatures between this and some well-positioned louver action on the hood.
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Unread 07-08-2010, 11:34 PM   #35
sh13lds21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
I'm not disputing this...it may very well flow more than the stock intake. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter how much it flows. Think of it this way...there's a lot more air outside your house than there is inside your house...but your lungs can only take in so much in one breath. So, it doesn't matter whether you're outside or inside...you still have more than enough air to breathe.

And yes, it's a good mod if you want to relocate the air intake. That's a great reason to do it, and I think the cowl intake is a great way to do it. It doesn't make more power, though, until you hit somewhere around 4500 RPM...and even then, we're talking about a 3% increase.

Also, even when you're getting cold air from the cowl, you're still putting it through an uninsulated intake tube (heat gain) and into an aluminum intake manifold (MASSIVE heat gain). If you want to claim some mileage, then okay...your data is your data, and I'll believe you. But the only dyno sheets I've seen all state that there's no practical power gain until well above your practical powerband.

With all that said, I think it's a cool mod to make, and if someone wants to do a real CAI, this is about the only cost-effective way to do it.
i agree with you about that the stock system flows enough air but imo its pretty restrictive, but i dont agree with you about the power part IMO it made my jeep have better throttle response and it feels torqueyer, im not saying it made a huge difference at all im just sayin it did make a difference lower in the rpm's. and i heard the same thing about the air flowing fast enough not to get heat soak idk if is true or not but i did see the same post where someone said it
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Unread 07-09-2010, 11:35 AM   #36
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Incidentally, here's a quote from another thread, from someone that insulated their intake tubing with header wrap and then checked the manifold temperature with a scan tool:

One quick way to reduce intake and manifold temps is to wrap the intake tube with header wrap or a insulated foil backed product from Thermotec. That right there dropped my intake temps 50*.

So, the "velocity through the intake" idea is questionable, it seems...

By the way, how can an intake flow enough air but also be pretty restrictive?
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Unread 07-09-2010, 12:01 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post
Incidentally, here's a quote from another thread, from someone that insulated their intake tubing with header wrap and then checked the manifold temperature with a scan tool:

One quick way to reduce intake and manifold temps is to wrap the intake tube with header wrap or a insulated foil backed product from Thermotec. That right there dropped my intake temps 50*.

So, the "velocity through the intake" idea is questionable, it seems...

By the way, how can an intake flow enough air but also be pretty restrictive?
im talkin about the box with the intake tube sucking air from one side of the box and it getting air from the other side of the box. im just saying that that thing cant really be that free flowing. and i believe the intake temp drop i never said i didnt we were just saying that we did see in another post where someone said it didnt get heat soaked, but when i was calling around to different companies they said not to use header wrap because it doesnt radiate the heat away or something like that
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Unread 08-15-2010, 11:39 AM   #38
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i finally got the intake wrapped i used thermo tec thermo shield it was pretty easy to do just time consuming cause i didnt wrap the sections with one continuous piece i just used strips and put the seme on the back side so its not noticable.
so tell me what you guys think



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Unread 08-16-2010, 07:54 AM   #39
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Very cool! This is definitely on my list of things to do.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 10:02 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sh13lds21 View Post
i finally got the intake wrapped i used thermo tec thermo shield it was pretty easy to do just time consuming cause i didnt wrap the sections with one continuous piece i just used strips and put the seme on the back side so its not noticable.
so tell me what you guys think



Update everyone on your continued mileage increases?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 10:09 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sh13lds21 View Post
im talkin about the box with the intake tube sucking air from one side of the box and it getting air from the other side of the box. im just saying that that thing cant really be that free flowing. and i believe the intake temp drop i never said i didnt we were just saying that we did see in another post where someone said it didnt get heat soaked, but when i was calling around to different companies they said not to use header wrap because it doesnt radiate the heat away or something like that
You are intentionally missing the point that it does NOT matter how restrictive it flows as long as it delivers more air than the motor needs for adequate combustion.

You could take the lower half of a five gallon bucket, cut a 3" hole in the bottom of it and set that on top of the throttle body, torch a 12" hole in the hood and tape some door screen over the top to keep the big chunks out and your engine would not run better.

As long as it flows enough air at any opening the throttle body butterfly has, it's all the same.

It's like saying you get better gas mileage or more power with a 30 gallon tank than a 10 gallon tank because you have more fuel available.

For the record, I run a cowl intake and have since 00.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
You are intentionally missing the point that it does NOT matter how restrictive it flows as long as it delivers more air than the motor needs for adequate combustion.

You could take the lower half of a five gallon bucket, cut a 3" hole in the bottom of it and set that on top of the throttle body, torch a 12" hole in the hood and tape some door screen over the top to keep the big chunks out and your engine would not run better.

As long as it flows enough air at any opening the throttle body butterfly has, it's all the same.

It's like saying you get better gas mileage or more power with a 30 gallon tank than a 10 gallon tank because you have more fuel available.

For the record, I run a cowl intake and have since 00.
i totally agree with you that it flows enough cause if it didnt flow enough you would probably notice a difference if you added a better flowing filter, but as we all no it doesnt so obviously it flows enough, my point was is the stock box just doesnt seem that its very free flowing. and i just took a trip from northern California to southern Washington and that drive is not flat at all until you get closeer to washington and i got a high of 19.2 mpg and no lower than 18.6. so imo thats good enough for a brick, and the cowl intake did make a difference
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:39 PM   #43
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Update everyone on your continued mileage increases?
i already did
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ncbluetj View Post
Very cool! This is definitely on my list of things to do.
thanks its a pretty simple mod the hardest part which is still pretty easy was cutting the back part of the box down that doesnt hold the filter.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 02:41 PM   #45
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Where did the air box come from?
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