Whats wrong in these pictures? Control arm content

the_art_of_desi · 05-12-2009, 06:04 AM

Inherited from the previous owner. Working my way through problems and this one is nnext on the list.

These are Currie adjustable arms, installed within the last few years.

The uppers look ok, but im not too sure about the lowers. They seem way too cranked to one side. Should they not sit with 0 tilt? Do the cam bolts have anything to do with this?

Also, check out where the bump sits in the coil spring on the driver's side. Seems too far forward. Would lengthening the lower solve this? It does not look as bad on the passenger side...

I cannot rotate the lower arms with my hands on the ground so I dont think the cranked control arm end is like that just because thats how it was parked. I think they have always been that way... Would this also cause a rougher ride?

pics are from driver's to passenger side.

BlackBellamy · 05-12-2009, 06:16 AM

That's normal play for CAs with those type of joints after flexing. Just make sure that the two ends are even with each other - if you were to draw an imaginary line through the boltholes on those arms those lines should be parallel.

If you had CA with rubber bushings at one end then yes there should be no tilt.

**mdm** · 05-12-2009, 06:21 AM

Disconnect the track bar and bounce the front of the Jeep a couple of times. See if that makes things sit better. You may be needing to get an adjustable track bar. Before you start adjusting the length of the control arms you need to make sure the axle is centered under the frame and is square to the frame.

the_art_of_desi · 05-12-2009, 06:39 AM

If the axle was not centered (via the trackbar) would it cause this constant tilt on both arms like this? I havent wheeled it yet and have owned it since November... There is a trackbar drop/relocation bracket on the axle that moves it towards the driver's side about 1/4" - 1/2" inch...

**Wheelin98TJ** · 05-12-2009, 07:06 AM

The joint should be centered in the axle mount and in line with each other when the suspension is at the middle of its travel.

For you to correct this, you have to adjust the arms slightly so you can rotate the joints in the brackets.

the_art_of_desi · 05-12-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

The joint should be centered in the axle mount and in line with each other when the suspension is at the middle of its travel.

For you to correct this, you have to adjust the arms slightly so you can rotate the joints in the brackets.

Ya, I knew it didnt look right. I would think it should have re-centered itself by now...

So the fix is simple enough, however, the cause is my concern. I dont want to go through the trouble to re-aligning everything to find out its going to twist again...

**Wheelin98TJ** · 05-12-2009, 07:20 AM

The cause was loose jam nuts or a botched installation.

Or another possible cause is a failed joint, so check and make sure they are all moving freely.

Once you get it set it will be fine.

Do you have adjustable uppers too?

the_art_of_desi · 05-12-2009, 07:23 AM

I do have adjustable uppers as well. They look straight and centered. Its just the lowers that look wrong.

I cannot move the arms (or joints) by hand... Should I just jack them up to inspect the joint? What am I looking for?

Are you thinking the trackbar and axle's position is not affecting the position of the lowers?

**Wheelin98TJ** · 05-12-2009, 07:31 AM

Your lowers appear to be adjusted a little short, but it might just be the pics.

Take a measurement from eye to eye and see where they are at. Stock length is 15 3/4" for both front and rear lowers.

To inspect the joint, unbolt the arm from the bracket and then try to rotate it. Stick a screwdriver through the joint and see if it roates freely.

Do you know how much suspension lift do you have?

Do you have adjustable track bars?

You mentioned a track bar bracket on the axle - is this on the front or rear?

the_art_of_desi · 05-12-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

Your lowers appear to be adjusted a little short.

Take a measurement from eye to eye and see where they are at. Stock length is 15 3/4" for both front and rear lowers. - Is this causing the improper location of the bump stop in the coil spring? Would I lengthen it until the bump is centered?

To inspect the joint, unbolt the arm from the bracket and then try to rotate it. Stick a screwdriver through the joint and see if it roates freely.

Do you know how much suspension lift do you have? - brand new 2.5" OME springs and shocks

Do you have adjustable track bars? - No

You mentioned a track bar bracket on the axle - is this on the front or rear?

- This is on the front (to reloacte the trackbar) and I have one on the rear to account for the lift

**Wheelin98TJ** · 05-12-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_art_of_desi

Is this causing the improper location of the bump stop in the coil spring? Would I lengthen it until the bump is centered?

Its not really an improper location.

Do not let the bumpstop location determine how to adjust your control arms.

The front lower control arms are adjusted for caster changes when doing an alignment. They also adjust wheelbase. And at the same time, they effect pinion angle too, so you have to adjust the uppers if you do any big changes to the lowers.

Judging by the pics, the bumpstop being slightly off center inside the coil spring is a result of the front axle being off center like the others mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_art_of_desi

This is on the front (to reloacte the trackbar) and I have one on the rear to account for the lift

The front track bar bracket you have is on the axle? I have never seen a setup like this.

Could you take a pic of that?

Have you checked to see if the front axle is centered? There are several ways to measure this, but for this purpose and just for a start, measure from the flare to the outside of the tire on both sides in the same location.

the_art_of_desi · 05-12-2009, 08:01 AM

I have lunch in a few hours so I will snap a pic of the bracket then. I will also do a quick measurement of the edge of the tire to flare

**mrblaine** · 05-12-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_art_of_desi

Ya, I knew it didnt look right. I would think it should have re-centered itself by now...

So the fix is simple enough, however, the cause is my concern. I dont want to go through the trouble to re-aligning everything to find out its going to twist again...

Why would you listen to the answer that is not correct only because it agrees with your incorrect assessment of what you looking at? There is exactly zero wrong with the way those arms are sitting in the mounts. That arm rotates 30° on a ball that is inside the end joints that are on both ends.

There is no way to make it sit at any orientation other than what you see in the pics because there is nothing to make it stay there unless you were to crank one end opposite the other.

Get a grease gun and start working some grease into the ball while you rotate the arm with a wrench. That will free it up so that you will be able to turn it by hand if there is no load on it.

That way, everytime you stop, you can get out, reach down and rotate the arms back to wherever makes you happy, but just know they won't stay there because they rotate by design.

The only thing you need to be careful of is to have both ends roughly pointed the same way or you run the risk of breaking the jam nut loose when the axle articulates. Other than that, grease 'em and run 'em.

**mdm** · 05-12-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_art_of_desi

...I will also do a quick measurement of the edge of the tire to flare

I wouldn't be concerned with this measurement, it is strictly visual. You want the axle to be centered on the frame not the flares. Actually most of the time I prefer the axle to find its own "center" by centering the steering wheel, disconnecting the track bar, and bouncing the suspension a couple of times. Adjust the control arms as necessary to square the axle to the frame. Adjust the track bar to match this location. This allows the axle to position itself. Unless there is something really wrong with the suspension components this normally will put the axle very close to where you would put it with any measuring you might do. It will also usually put the axle in a position where there is minimum static stresses on the suspension compontents. If the axle is "forced" to an unnatural "center" the components are already stressed when in a static position and when the axle flexes these stresses can be magnified limiting flex and possibly causing unnecessary damage.

**mrblaine** · 05-12-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdm

It will also usually put the axle in a position where there is minimum static stresses on the suspension compontents. If the axle is "forced" to an unnatural "center" the components are already stressed when in a static position and when the axle flexes these stresses can be magnified limiting flex and possibly causing unnecessary damage.

There is no such thing as an unnatural center. There is no such thing as a natural center.

There is only centered or not centered based on the relationship of the axle to the frame and square or not square based on the same relationship.

Putting the axle in the center and holding it there with the trackbar does not stress anything any more than it not being centered. That is the pure function of the trackbar, to maintain the correct relationship between the axle and the frame throughout the axle's range of motion.

The only correct way to center the axle is to do it dimensionally.