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Unread 08-12-2009, 01:47 PM   #76
Why J?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalcloak View Post
For those of you still concerned about the price, I wanted to share this from earlier in this thread:



Note: We also provide replacement battery and package trays, which are needed due to the increased clearance towards the tub.

What does that have to do with the $1000 cost of a bumper?


Not to mention that your fenders are more expensive than my Genright's which came with flares. Your flares are another $259.00. So your cost savings is a mute point because after you buy everything and sell everything you are pretty much the same price point.

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Unread 08-12-2009, 02:40 PM   #77
matsonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Why J? View Post
What does that have to do with the $1000 cost of a bumper?

Not to mention that your fenders are more expensive than my Genright's which came with flares. Your flares are another $259.00. So your cost savings is a mute point because after you buy everything and sell everything you are pretty much the same price point.
LOL! Thank you for the feedback.

Of course, the referenced post WAS about the cost of fenders and flares, not the bumper. The bumper needs work, which we are diligently working on, but really, comparing our fenders and flares with Genrights is like comparing a Kit Car with a Lexus. Sure you think you're saving money, but how much extra cost is there in the actual install and how long will they really last? On their own site they boast how their Hi-Line kit requires professional installation. Besides, it really just comes down to clearance, and we definitely are the all around winners in that race.
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Unread 08-12-2009, 03:02 PM   #78
NahamshaStompa
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Well honestly I dont think its worth arguing about but the thing with getting 200 bucks back from the sale of the stock fenders doesnt pertain to a guy like me who has rust holes in them. But maybe it is like you said your fenders are the "Lexus" of the tube fender world which most of us guys cant afford and for the purpose of off roading just arent worth that kind of expense cuz for that kind of dough I sure as heck aint going to give them any woods type off road abuse. Which is what I do. So for me it would defeat the purpose. Sorry man..I like them...cant afford them...I will look and probably buy elsewhere. Good luck to you and your company and that was just my 2 cents.
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Unread 08-12-2009, 03:09 PM   #79
Why J?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsonian View Post
LOL! Thank you for the feedback.

Of course, the referenced post WAS about the cost of fenders and flares, not the bumper. The bumper needs work, which we are diligently working on, but really, comparing our fenders and flares with Genrights is like comparing a Kit Car with a Lexus. Sure you think you're saving money, but how much extra cost is there in the actual install and how long will they really last? On their own site they boast how their Hi-Line kit requires professional installation. Besides, it really just comes down to clearance, and we definitely are the all around winners in that race.

I don't think I would go so far as to say that Genright's stuff is Kit Car, they produce a very nice product. I'm also sorry to tell you but the Genright high clearence fenders give you 3/4" more clearence than your flares and that's info taken from your web site.

I also wouldn't go so far as to say they they boast about professional install, they say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genright
"THIS IS NOT A DIRECT BOLT ON!!! You have got to really want these fenders on your Jeep! It is going to take a lot of work! If you are not up to the job, have a professional install them or DO NOT buy them!"
Which I would take as if you can't do the work or pay someone to do it then don't buy them.

Now I will give you that your fenders offer more clereance with less modifictions as the typical high line fender. You also offer them in powder coat which I do not think that any high line fender kit offers. I also think you have a nice product. This thread is about the bumper so I will get back to that.

Like I said before the cost is an issue, also if I was designing the bupmer it would do a few things:

1) Tie into the current fenders to add strenght across the entire front of the jeep.

2) Have the same look and feel, and by that they should use the same size tubing, materials, coating and harware that the rest of your line does. Also they need to have the same look, angle and over all feel. If the rest of the line uses stainless then fine, but if not than loose it, I doubt stainless is a big selling point and that just adds to the cost.

If you can do both of those then I think you will have a real winner on your hands, if you can lower the price. Now when the new bumper comes out if you incorpote my ideas I expect compensation.


And please for the love of all that is holy; kill those gawd awful turn signals. They need to die with fire. Please in the name of eight pound baby Jesus.
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Unread 08-13-2009, 08:54 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsonian View Post
LOL! Thank you for the feedback.

Of course, the referenced post WAS about the cost of fenders and flares, not the bumper. The bumper needs work, which we are diligently working on, but really, comparing our fenders and flares with Genrights is like comparing a Kit Car with a Lexus. Sure you think you're saving money, but how much extra cost is there in the actual install and how long will they really last? On their own site they boast how their Hi-Line kit requires professional installation. Besides, it really just comes down to clearance, and we definitely are the all around winners in that race.
Treks (http://www.gotreks.com/page.asp?pageid=113) also offers a replacement tube fender with inner fender for $250 less than the price of yours (MSRP vs. MSRP). You can also re-sell your stock fenders if you go with Treks. Treks also claims they offer "the largest wheel opening possible."

So I see you are claiming, 1) that you can re-sell your stock fenders; and 2) that you offer "the largest" wheel opening, like those are unique claims. As pointed out by me, and others in this thread, those claims are not unique. The only thing unique for MetalCloak are your prices.

I actually like your tube fenders and am considering them, the only reason I have not purchased them is the price. Compared to the competition, it is no competition because you priced yourself out of it, in my opinion.
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Unread 08-13-2009, 01:16 PM   #81
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I am actually in the process of installing the Treks / TnT tube fenders right now, mine have the 6" flare due to state regs. I didn't get any flex shots with my old fenders on ahead of time unfortunately but once I have a chance I will flex it out and start a new thread for it. I do not want to get this thread so far off track as to post other brand pics in it.

Any word on the flex pics with 35s and no lift?
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Unread 08-20-2009, 01:12 PM   #82
JOXJ87
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Bump for 35s and no lift pics???

Cole
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Unread 08-20-2009, 06:35 PM   #83
Kenbo-Slice
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I would say that its more like comparing a Lexus and a Toyota..... Genrite is a toyota (for their quality and price), Metalcloak is lexus. (The same as a toyota, but much more expensive.... for no reason.) At first I liked the fenders, but based on your attitude and thinking you guys are the cream of the crop I am changing my views quickly. I would take Genrite products any day of the week. Sorry guys but you aren't what you think you are.......
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Unread 08-20-2009, 07:11 PM   #84
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its expensive and ugly, but if ya give me one ill do some advertising
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Unread 08-21-2009, 10:42 AM   #85
matsonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenbo-Slice View Post
I would say that its more like comparing a Lexus and a Toyota..... Genrite is a toyota (for their quality and price), Metalcloak is lexus. (The same as a toyota, but much more expensive.... for no reason.) At first I liked the fenders, but based on your attitude and thinking you guys are the cream of the crop I am changing my views quickly. I would take Genrite products any day of the week. Sorry guys but you aren't what you think you are.......
I feel humbled. It was just one of those days...

That was definitely not the best choice of words, and, once again, I received the best education I can from you and the rest of this great forum.

I will be starting a new thread with the diagrams promised before (look for it later today) since this was supposed to be about the bumper.

Thanks again and thanks for keeping me in place!
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Unread 08-21-2009, 12:17 PM   #86
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Well, there's a lot of interesting human nature and marketing stuff involved there. It may not have been the most politically savvy choice of words, but it does reveal a conviction that you are the cream of the crop, or at least that you offer a more...luxurious product. Confidence, a certainty that you're better than the competition, isn't a bad thing, but it can definitely put people off if it comes across as arrogance--especially if it's undeserved. If it's been earned, then it may be resented by competitors, but if others haven't yet bought into it, then it's resented (or at least disliked) by prospective customers, which is far more important. As a buyer in this industry, I've witnessed an incredible amount of chest-bumping, penis-measuring, frat-like competition where people will talk up their own product and absolutely bash the competition. Sometimes it has more merit than others, but it can still be somewhat off-putting, depending on the attitude of the buyer.

I don't think it's necessarily fair or accurate for Kenbo-Slice to say that a Lexus is more expensive for no reason. It's definitely for a reason. The question is whether that reason is important to you, whether you value the reason enough to pay for the higher-end product. Whether the Metalcloak fender is truly the higher end product I can't say for sure, yet, but if the claims are true, then there are certainly features and advantages to the Metalcloak fenders that may significantly increase their value in the eyes of potential buyers. If they're truly as easy to install as claimed, for instance, that can make a huge difference in my mind, as I'm not somebody who relishes cutting up and welding on the Jeep if it can be avoided. Someone who loves to do that kind of thing, though, would feel differently. If on top of that they truly give the added clearance, then that alone increases its value, especially if you're someone like me who'd like to stay at 3" of lift (plus 1" for body) even with 35's and still maximize useful flex. And if they arrive neat and polished and are of a high quality of workmanship, then hey, that's even better.

So a case can certainly be made (again, if we assume the braggadocio is merited) that these fenders are superior in a number of ways. The question would be whether those points are of enough value to a buyer for that buyer to pay the premium required. A lot of people may not be able to justify it, while for others it's a no-brainer. And for some may just boil down to how they feel about the aesthetics of it. While a lot of self-proclaimed hardcore wheelers won't admit it, the look still matters to them, and if they think they can achieve enough with something that looks better (and may be cheaper), then it's just not the right product for them.

I have a pair of these fenders on their way to me, and I'll be documenting the install process and the results and testing it on some varying trails, and I'll render my own judgment after it's all said and done. I'll put that in the new thread that matsonian says is coming about.
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Unread 08-21-2009, 07:46 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsonian View Post
I will be starting a new thread with the diagrams promised before (look for it later today) since this was supposed to be about the bumper.
The New Thread has been started and the diagrams posted at:

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/me...6/#post7796604

We look forward to your feed back.

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Unread 08-30-2009, 10:05 PM   #88
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It's unique. But how will it help me if I am tipping forward coming off a rock and facing down? It's as if you guys wanted to make it a stinger, then decided to just roll the tip of the stinger back towards hood. I feel like this bumper would roll me into an end over end.
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Unread 08-30-2009, 10:15 PM   #89
Kenbo-Slice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
At the current market, stainless is around 350% percent higher than HRPO.
I am surprised that I missed that from Blaine......

I understand the price difference between stainless and hot rolled steel, but the ammount of stainless that is being used in this front bumper DOES NOT in any way justify the price.
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Unread 08-31-2009, 07:28 PM   #90
matsonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCJ View Post
It's unique. But how will it help me if I am tipping forward coming off a rock and facing down? It's as if you guys wanted to make it a stinger, then decided to just roll the tip of the stinger back towards hood. I feel like this bumper would roll me into an end over end.
CCJ, honestly, I didn't do a good job on this thread of showing all the options. We are about to start a new thread on the improved bumper, based on all the feedback, and will show the options for the hoop, which includes a stinger, winch guard, and full grill guard.
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