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Unread 02-07-2011, 10:16 AM   #1
mrblaine
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Vanco Brake Kit owners, pay heed.

If your Vanco Kit is acting less than stellar and you are not extremely impressed with the performance, something is wrong with the install 99.9 times out of 100.

I've had several tech calls of which the vast majority are from shops. The last one was because the knuckles were limiting the steering by 50%. I told them to install both knuckles and then take it off the lift so the draglink would quit running into the swaybar link mount.

I followed up with a call to find out how the break in went and if the customer was pleased. The answer I got? What break-in?

I then told him that the folded up white piece of paper in the box with the brake pads was not packing material.

The point of all of this drivel is if you are not impressed, contact me and I will walk you through finding out what's wrong and how to fix it.

Most of the time it's as simple as making sure you ground enough off the unitbearing flanges so the rotors don't wobble.

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Unread 02-07-2011, 10:23 AM   #2
Fropleyqk
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It always amazes me how accredited shops that are supposed to be experts in their fields make the most basic errors.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 11:12 AM   #3
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Did you get that ABS issue resolved with that one shop?
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Unread 02-07-2011, 11:19 AM   #4
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question for you blaine - is there any concern for the rear brakes not doing enough work with the vanco kit? as in should some extra proportioning be done to bias slightly more braking to the rear (vs stock)?

Asking since it's slick as a cartoon banana peel out and I've been able to play with the brakes a bit more. If I bury the pedal to the floor the fronts lock up, but the rears barely will. Rears only lock on ice, but any sort of snow for traction and the rears are still turning. This correct? testing on hard snow pack and/or hard packed ice. very happy with how it stops & behaves though.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 11:26 AM   #5
mrblaine
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Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
question for you blaine - is there any concern for the rear brakes not doing enough work with the vanco kit? as in should some extra proportioning be done to bias slightly more braking to the rear (vs stock)?

Asking since it's slick as a cartoon banana peel out and I've been able to play with the brakes a bit more. If I bury the pedal to the floor the fronts lock up, but the rears barely will. Rears only lock on ice, but any sort of snow for traction and the rears are still turning. This correct? testing on hard snow pack and/or hard packed ice. very happy with how it stops & behaves though.
If you increase the bias to the rear on hard pack and pavement they will lock up sooner due to the higher efficiency of the fronts.

If you want to know what that's like, toss your rig in neutral in a turn on ice and hammer the brakes. Try not to hurt yourself when the back comes around on you.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 11:33 AM   #6
TJeeper
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If I bury the pedal to the floor the fronts lock up, but the rears barely will.
It sounds perfect to me. I am assuming this is on flat ground? Try it again while driving downhill. I bet you the rear brakes lock up much quicker than before. More weight will be on the front of the vehicle than on a flat road. This effect is exaggerated with our lifted Jeeps. I would leave the braking bias where it is.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 11:42 AM   #7
SuperWade2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
If you're Vanco Kit is acting less than stellar and you are not extremely impressed with the performance, something is wrong with the install 99.9 times out of 100.

The point of all of this drivel is if you are not impressed, contact me and I will walk you through finding out what's wrong and how to fix it.

Most of the time it's as simple as making sure you ground enough off the unitbearing flanges so the rotors don't wobble.


To add another recent Vanco success story...

I went 2ish years with only feeling "OK" about my Vanco Kit, I was never ever "wow'ed"...I didn't have a frame a reference for good/bad or otherwise as far as TJ Braking other than stock and it felt maybe somewhat better than that. Recently after a number of conversations with Blaine, he helped me troubleshoot my setup.

As Blaine mentions above, I didn't grind enough unit bearing flanges and the Rotors were not seated properly. Completely my fault, I didn't follow the directions carefully enough and didn't do the correct troubleshooting steps (was not smart enough to know I had to problem to troubleshoot actually)

After we got that issue rectified, and new Black Magic Pads installed and broken in, I was instantly and painfully "WOW'ed"! I was leaning my head out of the window to try to listen to a brake lockup (wasn't sure about my F/R Bias), and stopped pretty aggressively from about 40-45mph and it just STOPPED, nearly instantly and I slammed my head pretty hard against my hard door window frame

Maybe it will knock some sense into me and know to call Blaine if something isn't as "amazing" as folks say it should be. It's most likely something I screwed up during the install.

BTW, Thanks again for the help Blaine...You've always been gracious with your time and patient in answering all of the questions regardless of how simple or silly, and I greatly appreciate it!
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Unread 02-07-2011, 12:10 PM   #8
JeffBowser
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I'll say from experience, my shop guy didn't even bother opening the directions pack until he called me and said my rotors were wrong, then my unit bearings were wrong. Needless to say, I told him to read the directions, and all went well from there. My big problem, down here in snow-bird alley, was finding a piece of road I could safely do the break-in. As it was, I got one horn blower, and one ******* with a finger. And this was late at night on a 4 lane hwy where were were the only two vehicles on the road for miles.
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Unread 02-08-2011, 08:25 AM   #9
REDLYNER
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Hmmmmm....

I have been running the Vanco 15" BBK for 10 months now and while it is better than stock, I never got the "hard stop" sensation that people brag about with their Vanco kits. I hit the brakes and it will stop, but it doesn't throw you forward or come close to skidding the tires. I still have a hard time getting the rig to stop fully on waterfall rock descents too.

I followed the break in to a T. I felt like we grinded enough off the hub flange, but maybe not? How much clearance should be between the hub and the rotor?

I'm running very heavy 37" tires (93lbs each) and my wheels are about 30lbs each, so I know that is a lot of rolling weight, but I was certainly hoping for more stopping oomph.


Any thoughts here? Am I asking too much of the kit with my wheel and tire size? Or does it sound like something was messed up during install?
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Unread 02-08-2011, 08:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLYNER View Post
Hmmmmm....

I have been running the Vanco 15" BBK for 10 months now and while it is better than stock, I never got the "hard stop" sensation that people brag about with their Vanco kits. I hit the brakes and it will stop, but it doesn't throw you forward or come close to skidding the tires. I still have a hard time getting the rig to stop fully on waterfall rock descents too.

I followed the break in to a T. I felt like we grinded enough off the hub flange, but maybe not? How much clearance should be between the hub and the rotor?

I'm running very heavy 37" tires (93lbs each) and my wheels are about 30lbs each, so I know that is a lot of rolling weight, but I was certainly hoping for more stopping oomph.


Any thoughts here? Am I asking too much of the kit with my wheel and tire size? Or does it sound like something was messed up during install?
I'm sure Blaine will jump in, but I finally realized I didn't grind enough, nor chamfer the edge of my Unit Bearing appropriatly when I looked on the inside of the rotor hat... there was obvious contact, like what's shown on the updated Vanco Kit directions (step 17 from PDF link below)



Another step I missed (which I'm not sure is needed with the updated kits) is removing a little bit of material from the lower side of the Caliper Brackets so it would sit flush with the knuckles. Not sure if this is needed in all installs or just with certain configs.

BTW, the updated directions can be found on Van's Site HERE and are a good deal more complete and understandable than the directions that came with the kit a couple years ago.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 10:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWade2 View Post
I'm sure Blaine will jump in, but I finally realized I didn't grind enough, nor chamfer the edge of my Unit Bearing appropriatly when I looked on the inside of the rotor hat... there was obvious contact, like what's shown on the updated Vanco Kit directions (step 17 from PDF link below)



Another step I missed (which I'm not sure is needed with the updated kits) is removing a little bit of material from the lower side of the Caliper Brackets so it would sit flush with the knuckles. Not sure if this is needed in all installs or just with certain configs.

BTW, the updated directions can be found on Van's Site HERE and are a good deal more complete and understandable than the directions that came with the kit a couple years ago.
O.K., I can honestly say I didn't miss any steps as I now see there are several changes that weren't in my instructions......With Van's help I did figure out the banjo bolt mod though.
Van's kit was clearly an improvement over stock but I'll never say it left me breathless. When the Black Magics came out I looked into the Sport Trac calipers, along with the new pads to give me the brake performance I'm looking for. Again a noticeable improvement.

I'm curious now with this new information, to see how well the brakes work once I chamfer the unit bearing, check to see if there is any interference with the debris shield, and move the 4 spacers to where they belong.....hmmmph
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Unread 02-10-2011, 10:35 PM   #12
SuperWade2
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I think Blaine is out at KOH with Gerald, so I'd expect he will pop back in once they are back to the "real world"...

I "lost" my dust shields as I didn't want to mess with cutting them... I'm sure they serve a purpose, but 2+ years and I don't think any negative impact.
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Unread 02-10-2011, 11:18 PM   #13
Jeepster83
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ive got some kind of glitch going on here. im trying to search what size wheel will work with the vanco kit and i get this message saying im not a registered user. can someone help me out with that? the wheel size question i mean. not the searching glitch.
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Unread 02-11-2011, 01:17 AM   #14
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I'm glad Blaine posted this. I am one of the original 15" Vanco kit users and have recently upgraded to the 48mm calipers with centric rotors and black magics. In both instances, I had to make MINOR adjustments to get them working great. As Blaine designed and built this kit, I'd venture to say that nobody knows it better than he does, other than Van of course. I can't stress this enough-if you have any of the Vanco kits and are not 100% satisfied with the improved feel, you need to call Blaine right away and discuss your issues. Even SLIGHT adjustments can make a huge difference in how the setup responds.

Also, after testing MANY sets of pads, these black magics are far and away the best I've run. Nothing else has come close-in either cold braking or hot.

Best of Luck,

Mike
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Unread 02-11-2011, 05:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SuperWade2 View Post
I "lost" my dust shields as I didn't want to mess with cutting them... I'm sure they serve a purpose, but 2+ years and I don't think any negative impact.
Most likely when I get there that's what mine will look like
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