[blackcat471]

I'm having a hell of a time with my front alignment. I've been to the alignment shop twice in the last two weeks. The second time after I got it out it pulled a little bit to the right. I'm thinking that might be because I may have a bent track bar or something as the guy who did the alignment told me my toes where aligned and my castor was at 3 1/2 on the left side and 4 on the other side. He said if anything it would be pulling to the left. But anyways the other night I took it off road for a bit. I went down a dirt road, over a few whoops, and then played around in a mud puddle a bit. After driving home that night I noticed that my alignment is off even more. Now instead of hitting the shoulder after about 100 yards it does it in about 25 yards. I don't understand it I didn't rack the steering at all. Do you guys think I should look into some upgraded steering kits. If there is a faulty component in the steering system I would rather just upgrade then to replace with factory parts and such. Also what kits have you guys have luck with. Thanks for any replies.

[MC_NickP]

mine pulls to the left after two alignments!

[BarneyJEEP]

check for play in the unit bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends, steering box...basically every "wearable" part on the front end. what year? how many miles? do you keep your front end components well greased?

[TJineering]

Here's a kit my buddy had luck with, I hope to do this mod soon to. doesnt include a track bar, but theres tons of options for those as well. heres the link
http://www.quadratec.com/products/56116_200.htm

Skyjacker makes a solid replacement track bar I believe

[Tom Hartz]

Originally Posted by slahti12

Here's a kit my buddy had luck with, I hope to do this mod soon to. doesnt include a track bar, but theres tons of options for those as well. heres the link
http://www.quadratec.com/products/56116_200.htm

Skyjacker makes a solid replacement track bar I believe

3 of my friends and myself are running the Currie tie rod kit with no problems to report. I am running the track bar that came with my Rubicon Express lift kit.

Tom

[robncar]

Yep, the Currie HD (CURRECTLYNC) a great kit; I'm happy with mine.

But, you likely have a failing component in your front suspension or steering. As said above, it would be a good idea to give a close inspection to the unit bearings, steering components, front trackbar, and front control arms to locate the source of the issue(s).

[blackcat471]

Is this the same kit that you guys are talking about. There is about 100 dollar price difference then the one at quadratech.

http://www.northridge4x4.com/proddetail.php?prod=CE-9701

[flatlander757]

Originally Posted by blackcat471

I'm having a hell of a time with my front alignment. I've been to the alignment shop twice in the last two weeks. The second time after I got it out it pulled a little bit to the right. I'm thinking that might be because I may have a bent track bar or something as the guy who did the alignment told me my toes where aligned and my castor was at 3 1/2 on the left side and 4 on the other side. He said if anything it would be pulling to the left. But anyways the other night I took it off road for a bit. I went down a dirt road, over a few whoops, and then played around in a mud puddle a bit. After driving home that night I noticed that my alignment is off even more. Now instead of hitting the shoulder after about 100 yards it does it in about 25 yards. I don't understand it I didn't rack the steering at all. Do you guys think I should look into some upgraded steering kits. If there is a faulty component in the steering system I would rather just upgrade then to replace with factory parts and such. Also what kits have you guys have luck with. Thanks for any replies.

The things that normally cause a pull alignment wise are caster and camber. Camber is the angle the tires are angled from top to bottom. Generally slightly negative(top of wheels tilted inwards). Whatever side has the more positive number will pull the vehicle that way.

ie: -0.20 camber on left and +0.40 camber on right, should pull to the right.



As far as caster goes, it will give the feeling of pulling. When you turn your wheels left and right, they do not rotate on a 100% vertical axis. This primarily affects your return to center effect. The upper balljoint should be further back in relation to the lower, resulting in a 4-8 degree tilted axis that the wheels rotate on. Generally when I do alignments, I will set the right side to whatever the left side should be, +0.3-0.5 degrees. What this does is make the wheel slightly easier to turn left than right. It accounts for the road crown. Road crown is the term for how most public roads(at least around here) are tilted towards the right side for water to run off and keep it from pooling where you're driving. Without caster being set a bit higher on the right side, in the right lane on the road the vehicle tends to wander to the right. Your caster difference sounds about right to me. Either way it's non adjustable on Jeeps, all you can adjust(with adjustable upper control arms) is the overall caster. Both steering knuckles are attached to each other with the solid axle, you tilt one backwards, you tilt the other backwards. You could cut the weld on a knuckle and rotate it, but that's not needed, especially in your case.



Toe on a solid front axle vehicle will not cause a pull. You just set it to spec and center the steering wheel with the drag link. You only adjust TOTAL toe since they are both connected, impossible to adjust individual toe as there isn't a separate tie rod on both sides of the steering gear.



Just curious, on the alignment sheet, what is the thrust angle on the rear axle? If it's really excessive(say more than .20 from zero) it could be something bent in the rear. Alignment machines will have you set the toe/center the steering wheel based on the thrust angle so it technically shouldn't be an issue, but it's good to know. It's adjustable provided you have all upper and lower rear control arms.

Have you tried swapping your tires left to right in the front yet? I've been doing alignments for the last 2 months straight doing 10-12 cars/trucks a day(guessing 400+?), and about 6-7 times out of 10, it's a tire that is pulling the vehicle. Also check your tire pressures to ensure they're all the same.

FWIW my tires have a tendency to pull right in the right lane on roads w/ a lot of crown to them, but in the middle lanes on the highway it drives about perfectly straight.

Oh, and the track bar won't affect the alignment as far as pulling goes. All it does is center the axle under the vehicle. Each axle can be offset 1" in either direction and still track straight provided the alignment and tires are good.

Also check to see if you have a brake caliper not releasing or dragging excessively on the rotor.

[blackcat471]

Originally Posted by flatlander757

The things that normally cause a pull alignment wise are caster and camber. Camber is the angle the tires are angled from top to bottom. Generally slightly negative(top of wheels tilted inwards). Whatever side has the more positive number will pull the vehicle that way.

ie: -0.20 camber on left and +0.40 camber on right, should pull to the right.



As far as caster goes, it will give the feeling of pulling. When you turn your wheels left and right, they do not rotate on a 100% vertical axis. This primarily affects your return to center effect. The upper balljoint should be further back in relation to the lower, resulting in a 4-8 degree tilted axis that the wheels rotate on. Generally when I do alignments, I will set the right side to whatever the left side should be, +0.3-0.5 degrees. What this does is make the wheel slightly easier to turn left than right. It accounts for the road crown. Road crown is the term for how most public roads(at least around here) are tilted towards the right side for water to run off and keep it from pooling where you're driving. Without caster being set a bit higher on the right side, in the right lane on the road the vehicle tends to wander to the right. Your caster difference sounds about right to me. Either way it's non adjustable on Jeeps, all you can adjust(with adjustable upper control arms) is the overall caster. Both steering knuckles are attached to each other with the solid axle, you tilt one backwards, you tilt the other backwards. You could cut the weld on a knuckle and rotate it, but that's not needed, especially in your case.



Toe on a solid front axle vehicle will not cause a pull. You just set it to spec and center the steering wheel with the drag link. You only adjust TOTAL toe since they are both connected, impossible to adjust individual toe as there isn't a separate tie rod on both sides of the steering gear.



Just curious, on the alignment sheet, what is the thrust angle on the rear axle? If it's really excessive(say more than .20 from zero) it could be something bent in the rear. Alignment machines will have you set the toe/center the steering wheel based on the thrust angle so it technically shouldn't be an issue, but it's good to know. It's adjustable provided you have all upper and lower rear control arms.

Have you tried swapping your tires left to right in the front yet? I've been doing alignments for the last 2 months straight doing 10-12 cars/trucks a day(guessing 400+?), and about 6-7 times out of 10, it's a tire that is pulling the vehicle. Also check your tire pressures to ensure they're all the same.

FWIW my tires have a tendency to pull right in the right lane on roads w/ a lot of crown to them, but in the middle lanes on the highway it drives about perfectly straight.

Oh, and the track bar won't affect the alignment as far as pulling goes. All it does is center the axle under the vehicle. Each axle can be offset 1" in either direction and still track straight provided the alignment and tires are good.

Also check to see if you have a brake caliper not releasing or dragging excessively on the rotor.

Thanks for taking the time to type all of that out. I know about the crown of the road pulling the vehicle to the right unfortunately it pulls me to the right when I'm driving in the left lane too. I also checked the air pressure and that was alright as well. I did notice the day that I got my new tires my brake started pulling a small amount to the right. It did that the moment I pulled out of the tire shops driveway. My guess is that it was too small to notice with my older smaller tires. I'm going to change the calibers probably tomorrow or Saturday when I have the day off see if that makes any difference. I'll also rotate the tires around. I tugged and pulled on the tie rods and they all look to be in order nothing seems lose or anything. I do get a bit of a shimmie when hitting small bumps it's really a small amount and I'm blaming that on the 31" tires. Anyways thanks again hopefully I can avoid the alignment shop.

[flatlander757]

Good luck with that! Also, here's another bunch of info I had tried to edit into that last post last night, but my stupid internet went down before it was submitted:
edit: I don't personally know the alignment specs for a TJ, the numbers used in examples are strictly what I generally see in cars I align on a regular basis.

Here are the specs from a 98 TJ service manual:

Caster: 7 Degrees, plus/minus 1 degree
Camber: -.25 Degrees, +/- .63 degrees
Total Toe: .30 Degrees, +/-.15 Degrees
Thrust Angle: 0, +/- .15 Degrees

Just FYI, when bigger tires are put on, I think about 5 degrees of caster is what should be the target for 35s. Based on this, I think 31s would be ideal anywhere from 6.5-7.0 degrees.

With your caster at 3.5 and 4.0, your Jeep won't want to return to center as easily, and thus the steering wheel is easier to turn at speed on the highway and will be more likely to follow what the road wants it to do. It can produce a wandering feeling, and with the road crown that could be why you are drifting off the road.

Look at the alignment sheet that the shop gave you, in the alignment machine it is possible to change the specs just so that they show up in the green. It's a sneaky way that some people will use to make the customer think there is no problem with caster or camber. Usually it's done because on some vehicles it is a PITA to do, and for mechanics on flat rate time is money. I'm guessing the guy screwed you over and did this because it's technically not adjustable without adjustable UCAs. If you didn't know the real specs then you wouldn't know anything was ever wrong.


Post up the rest of your alignment specs, I'd like to see what else is up.

edit #2, looked at my 03 FSM, only main difference is that the rear thrust angle is okay up to 0.25 degrees off. I'd be worried about anything over 0.20 though.

[reelfaith]

I am a ase master tech and that is the best description of a front end alignment I have seen good job flatlander.

[Pillswoj]

Flatlander -

Best overall alignment explanation I have seen. Perhaps a Mod could put it in the Faq.

[flatlander757]

Originally Posted by reelfaith

I am a ase master tech and that is the best description of a front end alignment I have seen good job flatlander.

Originally Posted by Pillswoj

Flatlander -

Best overall alignment explanation I have seen. Perhaps a Mod could put it in the Faq.

Thanks guys

Gotta watch out for the road clown also, road crown's evil brother