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Unlimited04's LJ Build

455K views 724 replies 144 participants last post by  -sean- 
#1 · (Edited)
I try to keep this updated with tech regarding my Jeep. Direct links are imbedded in this first post, and many others. Check the links, read, learn and ask questions

My goal is a fairly capable general purpose Jeep. It sees general utility usage, crowded city parking garages, long highway drives, lots of snow and ice conditions and scenic mountain 4x4 trails in Colorado. It's not a rock crawler...its more of a general purpose expedition Jeep and its going to go be a jack of all trades, master of none.

Index:

The beginning:

My comprehensive 33" tire build:

Mods for 33" tires

Additional Completed Mods:

Still in process:

Off-Road Utility/Camping Trailer Build

Wish List:
  • NV3550 manual trans
  • highline fenders
  • dual rate front sway bar

You don't NEED all this to run 33s, but above is what I would consider a comprehensive 2.5" lift kit to bring all steering, suspension and driveline geometry to where they should be, while still providing an exceptional daily driver and capable off road rig.

Removed mods:
JKS front track bar
Reason: didn't work.
JKS rear track bar
Reason: didn't work.
Riddler Diff covers
Reason: major clearance problems, front track bar & gas tank skid interference.
Homemade 23mm bumpstops
Reason: Removed from front. Welded on 3/8" plate & tapped spring pad for bumpstops. Used in the rear to make 1.3" bumpstop extension.
Homemade t-case drop (6061-T611 aluminum)
Reason: installed SYE/CV shaft.
Zone Off-Road front cam bolts
Reason: installed Rokmen control arms. Caster now at 6.2 with HP D30 swap.
Daystar 0.75" spacers for front & OME 933 front springs
Reason: went with 934 front springs after installing winch.
Homemade Tire Carrier
Reason: weight reduction & trade for Unichip Q (for hi-perf engine mods to come)
Kilby Gas tank skid
Reason: weight reduction - went to Savvy gas tank skid.
2 Explorer fans and 2 "Severe Duty" fan clutches
Reason: Overheating issues while idling, belt squealing at higher RPMs, didn't work as good as stock. More info here in this Explorer fan thread.
Explorer 46mm calipers from Vanco kit
Reason: Upgraded to Explorer Sport Trac 48mm calipers with Black Magic Brake pads and Centric rotors thanks to mrblaine (www.blackmagicbrakes.com)
Currie 1" MML
Reason: Chasing driveline vibes. Replaced with Brown Dog rubber w/ super block brackets. Did not notice a difference in vibes between the two.
JeepMedic engine skid & tummy tuck
Reason: Weight loss program - went to Savvy UnderArmor tummy tuck and engine skid. But the JeepMedic is still a great design.
Rear TrueTrac
Reason: Jeep no longer a daily driver in snow, so went to ARB.
Front TrueTrac
Reason: Jeep no longer a daily driver in snow, so went to ARB.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Suggested Readings

General:

Suspension/Steering:

Engine:

Drivetrain:

Brakes:

Other Build Threads:
 
#3 · (Edited)
Pictures!

Before Lift:


After Lift:


Front suspension:


*See more info here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/unlimited04s-lj-build-778715/index20.html#post11060714


*NOTE: This JKS track bar hit the Riddler diff cover big time...both have since been replaced


*this combination proved to have major clearance issues, resulting in 1.5" less uptravel than stock*
Read here:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tj-front-adjustable-track-bars-0-3-5-does-yours-hit-fit-738948/

JKS Quicker Discos:


*Bumpstops have since changed, see here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/unlimited04s-lj-build-778715/index20.html#post11060714

Ground clearance:
Before:


After:


Rear Driveline Angle:


---------------------------
The biggest problem encountered during the lift install is the passenger side rear shock mount: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778320



I used a 1/16" HSS steel bitt to drill a pilot hole, then followed it with a Cobalt steel drill bit completely drill the bolts out. Tried to chip the weld-nut off with a tool steel chisel, it sure busted up the nut, but isn't doing much to the weld. The weld must be fairly high tensile strength stuff.
 
#11 ·
I had the same thing happen when I replaced my shocks. I just took a dremel with a cut off wheel to the welds. I was able to get one side of each nut cut loose. Then I took a chisel to then and knocked them off.

The biggest problem right now is the passenger side rear shock mount: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778320



I bought a Cobalt tipped drill bit that is supposed to be suitable for drilling hardened steel, that's tomorrows project. Tried to chip the weld-nut off today with a A3 tool steel chisel, it sure busted up the nut, but isn't doing much to the weld. The weld must be 7018 or higher tensile strength stuff.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I can't comment on the ride yet because there is no right rear shock and i'm bouncing all over the freakin' place. I can't go over about 40-45mph because it bounces like crazy. Can't comment on vibes yet either because I can't drive highway yet, and when I am driving, I'm bouncing....

But here's somes measurements of the gains:

Before-
Drivers Rear: 33.25"
Pass Rear: 33.25"
Drivers Front: 33.5"
Pass Front: 32.75"

To the Tummy Tuck: 11.125"
Lowest point on the front control arm frame side bracket: 9.25"
Front Bumper: 17.875"
Rear Bumper: 15"

After-
Drivers Rear: 37.25"
Pass Rear: 36.875"
Drivers Front: 36.625"
Pass Front: 36.5"

To the Tummy Tuck: 14.875"
Lowest point on the front control arm frame side bracket: 12.75"
Front Bumper: 21.25"
Rear Bumper: 18.75"

Hopefully it settles a little bit, because its actually about 1" taller than I'd like. It also sits slightly nose high, or level, because of the 0.75" spacer up front, and the fact that I don't have my engine skid on. I'd hoped this nose-high would point the output shaft down a bit more and prevent me from having to install a SYE/CV or t-case drop.

Track bars still need some work. Rear axle is too far left and the front axle is slightly pushed right. Maybe off 3/8" in rear and 1/8" in front. I also put blue Locktite on the track bar, so it should be fun to loosen. Another project for tomorrow after I get the rear shock on.

As I had hoped, the ground clearance with the JeepMedic tummy tuck + 2.5" OME lift is freaking awesome. I can have a party under there :hahaha: I honestly don't know why you would need more than this for a DD.
 
#5 ·
You finally did it. I see you did go with the JKS track bar. It looks like you wont be having any trouble with it hitting, although you might need more bumpstop in the front. You are running a hair shy of suggested bumpstop for 33's on those springs.
 
#8 · (Edited)
In case anyone's interested, here is the laser alignment data from the shop. The uncorrected toe-in and drag-link made for some white-knuckle 30mph driving, thats for sure.

Camber (L/R):
Before: -0.8/-0.8
After: -0.8/-0.7

Caster (L/R):
Before: 4.2/4.5
After: 4.2/4.5

Toe (L/R):
Before: 0.68/0.59
After: 0.15/0.14

EDIT: After dialing the suspension in over many iterations, as described in this thread, I've got a comment about caster & drive-ability.

the road crown around here sucks and at 5° it followed every defect, return to center blew, and the steering felt very dartish with little resistance and no tendency to want to go straight with no hands on the wheel/little input. I also had a harmonic steering vibration feedback (not DW) at certain speeds, which could yield DW if hitting a big enough bump. As I dialed the caster up in 0.5° increments (with corresponding toe adjustments), the vibration incrementally moved into different speed ranges, incrementally decreased, and road crown became less and less an issue. Measured & aligned each time at Firestone, via my lifetime alignment. I finally settled at 6.5° caster and the drive-ability is pretty damn good, with no wobbles, and I can hold straight on uneven road surfaces & high winds. For reference, I had this conversation with -sean-, and IIRC, he ran 7° on 30s, 35s and 37s on his L-TJ. My neighbor has a very custom XJ, he runs 33s w/ 8° caster, after cutting the inner C's off and rotating them. So I don't drink this lower caster with bigger tires Kool-Aid. I say start someplace and dial it higher until you find something you like.
from: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/p...-using-front-spring-pad-1440101/#post14488717

Also from that thread, I mentioned I've tried multiple tricks with a digital angle finder that is about +/- 0.1°. What I've noticed on the two housings I've had is a good +/- 1° variation, and that it doesn't necessarily measure the same twice in row. For example, using the socket on the ball joint or lower-C tricks, today might show 6°, but next Tuesday may show 5° and the next Tuesday may show something totally different...and none of those necessarily equal what the rack says.

If you're looking to measure caster in your garage, the best I've found is getting it on a laser alignment rack at least once, then relate that to pinion angle measured from a machined surface. Now, for future reference you know you can change the caster and watch pinion angle, and the delta will be the same. This will also allow you to calculate your caster/pinion angle separation.

For example, I recently tried to used two different angle finders to measure caster at ride height by cleaning off the top of the ball joint, and putting the ball joint insertion tool over top of it, and then putting the angle finder on top of that. This is akin to the socket on the ball joint trick, is a pretty tight fit and one would think it will give accurate readings. Nope. The angle finder showed 9° caster (and sometimes 10°), which is completely wrong. The laser alignment rack has shown 6.5° caster repeatably over several months...so the garage method was off by at least +2.5° that day.

Basically if you're looking for a correct caster measurement...the only way to know that is start with the alignment rack to get a baseline measurement.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Front: 933 (TJ HD)
Rear: 949 (LJ Specific)

Decided against the ZJ 934 fronts after talking with OME. My friend that helped me install all this has 934 fronts with 949 rears, and he needs 1" rear spacers to sit level.

And if I'm thinking of the bumpstops correctly, I should be good. Baseline is 2" for 33s w/o BL. 2"-1.25" for BL. Leaves 0.75"-0.9" for the homemade bumpstop...which gives me 0.15" extra clearance. Plus theres a spacer in front which gives an extra 0.75".

EDIT-after adding a winch, I went to 934 springs. I'd recommend the 934/949 combo for LJ's, the 933's will work if you're keeping a stock front end with no extra weight.
 
#13 ·
Am I the only person in the world that hasn't broken those off? Even at 120,000 miles when I did my lift, the bolts came out no problem. And they were the original shocks...

You pretty much have the build sheet of what I wanted to do to my TJ. I'm probably going that same route when I get back into one too. Maybe even get into an LJ if theres one in my price range.:shhh:
 
#15 ·
Unlimited04 -
Looking very nice, hopefully you will get that shock in today.
 
#20 ·
The ZJ tie rod is in the "Next on the List" section. I've been doing mods methodically in stages with a finally goal in mind, but funds are short right now.

BUT...the GOOD NEWS...FINALLY got the rear shock in!

It took 4+ hours and several idea attempts, chisels, BFH's and a case of beer, but one weld-nut is busted off and one is drilled through and mangled pretty good. I didn't have enough Class 10.9 or Grade 8 washers, so we ended up stacking a bunch of Grade 2 or less washers to get me home. The bolts torqued just fine to ~25 ft-lbs, the recommended spec, so I'm going to run it like this for a while and watch for problems.

Got 400+lbs of tools in the back right here (still sits level!):

I've decided to drive around with all my tools in back for a week to try to settle the springs a bit.

I also re-centered the rear axle today. Its still slightly pushed to the drivers side, but I don't think I can get it much better. One more turn on the JKS track bar may push it too far the other way.

The BAD NEWS - I've got vibes and a steering shimmy. I'm going to get the tires balanced and re-torque the front track bar some more tomorrow.

The vibe symptoms - slight steering wheel shimmy/wobble under 40mph - very tolerable. BUT - as soon as you hit 48-50mph the steering wheel shimmy hits, the vehicle doesn't become uncontrollable, but its definitely two hands on the wheel and annoying as hell. I didn't get over 55mph - and its worse under throttle, 3rd gear or OD don't matter - vibes the same. Steering wheel just shimmy's and vibes side to side rapidly. Goes away after getting below 45mph. DEATH WOBBLE? OR SYE/CV?? :brickwall

Update on steering: caster adjustment was required. Click here for more info.

Until this thing settles, I'm getting ~3.5" of lift from the 2.5" lift kit, and I've got a TT :brickwall.
 
#21 ·
Oh, and on the ride - I think it rides BETTER than stock. Thats right...BETTER. Its softer, and the shocks control the axle awesome on bumps...it GLIDES over washboards that used to shake the crap outta my Jeep just a week ago. I ain't making that up either - I've driven this 04 since new.

The center of gravity feels a bit high...I want to put my wheel spacers back on once I get the shimmy/vibes figured out.
 
#22 ·
Looks like you need SYE/CV and have symptoms of pre DW. A good balance will most likely fix your wobble. The increased angles because of the lfit has made your slightly unbalanced tires more noticable (I would be willing to bet). Discount Tire is the only place I could find that gave a good enough balance to stop my wobble. And its a lifetime balance.
 
#23 ·
ya might end up stuffing in some cam bolts to get some more caster...
 
#30 ·
it might drip a little... use a zip tie on the boot.
 
#35 ·
only the slip shafts like the rubi or cv shafts. they need to be in phase, not necessarily marked tho.. the wranglers are fixed and slide in and out of the extention housing of the t-case

Isn't he talking about the rear axle?...
yep, and the front has a wobble that may be needing some caster to fix... that's the stink I was making about the cams.. In the rear they are a real PITA..
 
#37 ·
I'd also check the control arms as a cause for any wobble. I know that once I added my lift after about two years of wheeling it stock, the bushings in my stock arms were shot and were the sole cause of death wobble. After I installed my Currie arms, problem solved. The way you describe your problem is exactly how mine started, FWIW.

I would also add rocker guards ASAP, assuming you plan on wheeling it places like Spring Creek, Wheeler Lake or Holy Cross. I know that even with 3" of lift and 33s, those three trails routinely abuse the rocker guards on my Unlimited.
 
#39 ·
I have the same steering wheel shaking problem as you I believe. Atleast it sounds the same. I got back from Rausch and my steering wheel wasn't centered so I think I messed up the alignment. :dunno: I'll wait until I get my front track bar before I get it aligned though. Not enough shaking to be a problem yet...
 
#41 ·
I had the same lift and front diff cover, but different track bar, but mine did the same thing. It was the track bar hitting the diff cover. (that's one of the many reasons I ditched the OME springs as well).

Did you loosen any control arms when you added the lift? If so, did you re-torque them?
 
#42 ·
did not loosen any control arms. I'm pretty sure its not the track bar hitting the diff cover - no signs of hitting my diff cover, no paint marks - and my stock track bar did hit the diff cover, so I know what to look for. I also added bumpstops to the front, which should help keep the track bar off the diff cover.

Maybe shocks? I had no idea what the torque spec is on the upper shock mounts, OME's instructions just said three turns past the poly beginning to compress, whatever the heck that means. Give me a quantitative spec and I'll hit it, this qualitative spec sucks. I just compressed them till there was over 1/2" of stud thread sticking out.
 
#45 ·
it has bolts for the early and late tj's... I'd have to measure the spacers, I don't remember how tall they are. It's been sitting around since 03 when I put the rancho on my rubi..
 
#46 ·
1 3/16" drop...
 
#47 ·
interesting. how long are the bolts??? I've got a 1" tcase drop I made...just need to buy the bolts from McMaster.

This makes me wanna cry! Called around & priced stuff on the internet yesterday - ~$440 labor for a SYE install, $160-230 for the SYE itself, $290 for the driveshaft...then I'll still need adjustable uppers and shock relocators to rotate the pinion angle. But, I'm soooo close to no vibes...course thats with a hard top, 400lbs of tools, a full tank of gas and a bike hanging off the hitch - but the vibes are very minimal.

I just don't want to polish a turd - for the $1300-1500 w/ tax I'd have in the NP231, I could get a used Rubicon NV241OR w/ a double cardon shaft & adjustable uppers.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Homemade T-case drop -

Material: 6061-T611 solid 1" x 2" aluminum <--use T6 or better only!!!

I didn't radius the edges like shown in the drawing, I simply didn't care that much. It would make it a little more 'pretty' tho. I ended up having to overbore the front two holes to allow for wiggle room.

Installed:


New driveline angle:


No more vibes!! Kinda sucks that I have a tummy tuck w/ a t-case drop...but at least I've got a much beefier-than-stock setup. Haven't tried 4wd yet, but I'll probably need to adjust the shifter linkage. Muffler & tailpipe does hang down lower, but I don't care unless it causes problems...so I'm going to leave it for now.

*** I'd like to thank scotch740 for his flat t-case build thread linked here. I used his drawing to determine the bolt pattern to make this t-case drop. And I used 4x4xplor for the procedure.

EDIT: oh yea, bolts I got from www.mcmaster.com. They are Grade 10.9 M12x1.75, 60mm long, fully threaded. Used 1/2" Grade 8 washers. Nutserts were no problem thanks to suggestions from this forum...PB Blaster + propane torch + 2 ft cheater bar. Some bolts were fine but some were rusted bad.
 
#49 ·
sorry I missed that question.. I still have the stinking box with the bolts laying next to my chair!

looks good...
 
#52 · (Edited)
its all good :thumbsup: thanks:)

Unlimited04, do you know how the LJ specific springs compare to the HD springs on the OME lift? The reason I ask is because I just got an LJ on monday, and I'd like to put my OME HD lift from my TJ onto it.
If you've got a LJ, you want at least the 949 rear springs (LJ specific) to get 2.5" of lift, especially if you've got heavier accessories or plan to add them. I've got a Kilby gas tank skid (~80lbs) and a heavy tire carrier (~120 lbs), and I like to be able to haul lots of heavy gear.

member "-sean-" has an LJ with OME's soft springs, but take a look at his rig, he's going to for a specifc Low Center of Gravity on big tires look.

Another popular option for those front accessories (winch + bumper) is to add 934 ZJ springs, but these will yield more than 2.5" of lift. My friend has this setup, with a lot of heavy accessories - he added 1.5" spacers to the rear to sit level when towing a trailer.

I am fairly surprised you are getting vibrations. I have nearly the same setup in the terms of height differences, but different brands of parts.

It furthers proves how every Jeep is different.

How do you like the new brake pads and rotors? I am considering those as well even though they cost so much.
First, You have a RC 2.5" lift. I highly doubt you really got 2.5" or more out of it. Its designed for TJ's, not heavier LJ's. Secondly, I have a JeepMedic tummy tuck which gains 2.5" of clearance over stock. So like I mentioned before, I'm seeing about 5" of lift (6" before settling) at the driveshaft before the t-case drop - well into the SYE/CV territory for an LJ. Clearance at the t-case skid after settling was 14.125", now with the drop its 13.125", giving 2" of clearance with the t-case drop over stock w/ TT.

New pads and rotors have been on for nearly 15k now, working awesome. gotta heat them up in the morning with some quick stops as I pull out of my complex, but the hotter they get the better they grip. If you don't warm them up before driving in cold winter (< 30*F) they can be a bit worrysome if you have to panic stop from 50mph. The complete opposite happens on hot days in traffic - because you're heating the brakes up...you get up to 50mph and panic stop and your face will be on the windshield.
 
#51 ·
I am fairly surprised you are getting vibrations. I have nearly the same setup in the terms of height differences, but different brands of parts.

It furthers proves how every Jeep is different.

How do you like the new brake pads and rotors? I am considering those as well even though they cost so much.
 
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