[bebout]

......

[spyder6]

the next one that says shenanigans im pistol whipping in the face

[QuickSilverCon]

"Hey Farva, what's the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy **** on the wall and the mozzarella sticks?"

[never monday]

My delete finger is starting to itch.

Quit screwing up my thread.

[Wheelin98TJ]

What are you trying to accomplish with your threads?

This seems to be a repeat occurrence.

[adam728]

I think at this point you might as well start a new thread once the build is underway, or have the mods delete everything but the very first post in this one (since too many people, like me, didn't thoroughly read everything before butting in).

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

What are you trying to accomplish with your threads?

This seems to be a repeat occurrence.

A build thread should be one persons design and accomplishment documentation.
Not a free for all of 800 other ways to do something.

[Sobie]

i know you are set on what you are doing. i was asking more specific questions on what you are doing with your build. sorry i guess i wasnt clear. didnt mean to tick you off...

[never monday]

Ryan,
All of these were unnecessary

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

What about a turbo from a 2.3L T-Bird?

Originally Posted by never monday

I'd rather have a root canal than use a Ford product.

Originally Posted by bebout

I hear ya.

Originally Posted by Unlimited04

hahaha, somebody doesn't like Ford!

Originally Posted by sourskittle

Its a garrett T-3 smart asses And the 2.3 turbo ford motor is about 17.5 times the motor jeep's 2.5L ever thought of being.

I have a friend that just bought a running/driving turbo t-bird for $350 to swap into a 92' mazda pick-up for "gas mileage", hahaha.

And, I don't care, unless you crap $100 bills every morning after eating pizza, the ford EFI 302 is the best engine swap out there.

For a trail beater in a TJ, I don't see anything wrong with a jeep 4 banger. Essp. if its the 2.4L dodge DOHC 4 banger.

Originally Posted by sourskittle

Then your crazy for looking for a S/C. My dodge 2.4L ( samething ) made 409whp and 505TQ at 2900rpms in my SRT4. Get some SRT4 rods/pistons from dodge ( like $55 a peice rod+piston assembly) swap them in your block. Get that manifold flip plate that "airtonics" or what ever used. Get a STOCK SRT4 turbo-fold ( mistu TD04LR-15G ). And boost the crap out of it. A stock SRT4 motor/turbo will make over 300TQ at the wheels WAY before 3000rpms.

I did read that you had one though, haha...

Of course... The turbo 2.4L would still cost more than a EFI 302 swap If you think its worth it, swap the 2.4L in and leave it stock...

Originally Posted by wrangler2007

What about an sti engine?

Originally Posted by spyder6

here you go monday http://avengersuperchargers.com/ you'll of course have to use the splitsecond splice in computer

have you seen AirSierra's setup? hes running the above mentioned 2.4 SRT-4 internals with the factory turbo setup on 37s i believe. he really likes it.

Originally Posted by never monday

I know about Avenger. I'm not a fan of the compressor they use.
Air Siera did an excelent job for a turbo set up.

Originally Posted by sourskittle

That picture is a Conquest TSi and the 2.6L in it is built by mistu ( aka Starion ). And its a fair motor, just has cylinder head over heating issues.

The daytona turbo 4 banger is pretty good 2.2-2.5L but they have really crappy flowing heads that make them spool fair sized turbos extremely slow, but they can make some serous torque, throttle response is just slow. A very rare Daytona was made in 93' ( I think ). It has a DOHC motor via the "spirit R/T". It used the same common block as the older 2.2L non-cross flow turbo omni, minivans, and daytona. But it also used a cylinder head designed by lotus that was DOHC 16V and cross flow. It was the fastest sport compact car built that year by a HUGE margin. 93' cobra mustangs would run mid-14s, and the spirit R/T and daytona R/T were rumored to run high 14s, which in 1993, that was MOVING. Actully, the king of all FWD cars, the SRT4, only runs low low 14s or MAYBE an extremely high 13sec BONE STOCK. Of course with mods, all bets are off.

I understand if you don't want a V8. I love that. I was just pointing out the price point. If you really want a FI 4 banger, you'd be CRAZY not to use that 2.4L you have sitting around. I think I have enough SRT4 pistons laying around to make a set of 4, but you'd have to take them to a machine shop to get them put on your stock 2.4L rods ( they are something special to put on and take off ), which is why I recommended just buying the assemblies from dodge ( which is what I did when I needed a set ). I have 3 rods/pistons with only 400miles on them.

For what it is, maybe you could score an entire SRT4 wiring harness/ECU and then you'd really be in businuss. 300whp, instant power, insane torque, and broken axles would all be at your big toe with only a few mods.

Only after we bought my wifes 05' did I find out that the newer TJs got the 2.4L and that a 4-speed auto was out there... The SRT4 motor with a RWD/4wd auto tranny would be god. A stock SRT4 weighs right at 3000LBS. ( mine was 2965LBS. without a driver ).

I have a video on my SRT4 on low boost, without the nitrous running a 487whp procharged 05' mustang GT. The GT was fresh off the day that morning. He beat me by 1/2 car lengh. Then we ran b/c he said "no way that was off the bottle ", and the second race I put about 10 cars on him. Its a sick motor. I sold mine for a G35... Sometimes, FWD is just too big of a handicap.

Originally Posted by wrangler2007

What about twin turbo? Make a custom kit

Originally Posted by wrangler2007

Going avenger then sense they have the new self contained oil? I hope they have a gauge to see the oil like my whipple...

Originally Posted by That1guy

Not a damn thing as long as they're hot.

Originally Posted by Unlimited04

so never_monday, have you thought about doing a turbo on your 2.4L? Air Sierra did a nice turbo build using PT Cruiser parts.









sorry so many people aren't paying attention, I couldn't resist

Originally Posted by adam728

Which is possible with a turbo if setup that way.

On a supercharger you could be making boost at 1K, but using more hp to drive the supercharger than it is adding to the engine. This creates a situation where being supercharged will actually yeild less power than stock!

If it were my Jeep and I wanted forced induction I'd go turbo, personally. Especially since you can rob well engineered factory parts to make it happen.

Originally Posted by adam728

Sorry, I didn't really mean to further this thread off track. I amvery interested in what Never Monday does with this build (I'm a fan of the LCG builds).

I just jumped in because I hate the generalizations made about turbo vs superchargers.
Turbo lag
Turbos only make power at high rpm
Superchargers make tons more torque
Etc etc

Most of these sterotypes became well seeded in the automotive enthusiest communities because they held very true, 25 years ago. Carbureted blow-thru systems and very basic EFI systems severily limited boost/timing/fuel control, and turbo car often had tons of lag. Now variable vane turbos, direct injection, and nearly limitless fuel/timing/boost control has transformed what turbos are capable of.

Superchargers take power to make power. I didn't claim that they don't increase power, I just claimed that there is a threashold that must be reached before they start making power. It's entirely possible for a supercharger to be making boost near idle, but take 10 hp to spin it while only building 7 hp over stock. Net gain? -3 hp. Bring the rpm up a bit and you'll quickly cross that threashold and start making much more power. Not all systems will act this way, but the "superchargers = torque" is just another generalization that doesn't always hold true. Plus, since a supercharger takes power to make power it can never have the usable power potential of a turbo. In general (there's that stupid word again) it takes 1psi more boost from a supercharger than from a turbo to get the same usable hp.

Turbos can spool at quite low rpm. I loosely follow some VW boards because there is a turbo'd Passat sitting in our driveway. Some of these cars will reach max boost (10-12 psi) by 1800 rpm, and be pushing a fair amount of boost (2-3 psi) by 1200 rpm. Some of the nearly stock cars can lay down over 200 ftlbs at the wheels from 2300 rpm to over 5000 rpm in a very flat fashion.

Anyway, I'm about to fall off my soap box. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents against the turbo vs supercharger stereotypes.

On with the build, in whatever direction you chose to take it!!!!!

Originally Posted by Jeepster83

there. fixed it for ya'.

Originally Posted by sourskittle

I agree with every single thing you posted.

As far as the S/C, I still like the idea. I think its great on a 2.5L. When you already have a viable option to turbo the 2.4L with ease, it just doesn't make sense to me to S/C it.

Here is a quote from a guy that actully owns this 2.5L S/C YJ.
" It is a sweet *** way to get 200 hp out of a 2.5 though. Puttin out 5-7 lbs from 2500 to redline."
Here is his YJ. http://chuckstrucks.iforumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=90812&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0&mforum=chuckstrucks

The SRT4 turbo with an aftermarket ( $90 ) wastegate will make boost around 1500-1800RPMs. I actully clipped my turbine wheel on mine to ADD LAG to try and gain some traction and it also adds to the topend.

And when adam posted "Some of the nearly stock cars can lay down over 200 ftlbs at the wheels from 2300 rpm to over 5000 rpm in a very flat fashion." In the quoted post, he didn't mean that it would make 200TQ at 5000rpms, he meant it would make 200TQ STARTING at 2500rpms. That's is also with computer controlled boost. When you manually control the boost on these little bitty turbos ( jetta/SRT4 size ) you can get boost almost off idle. Basiclly when "a load" is added, they will make boost.

The S/C is still cool, I really like that YJ I posted. If you do S/C it, I'll follow the build still.

Ole yea, and if you leave the 2.4L at its stock compression ratio with the turbo, it will spool even FASTER !!! You just won't be able to push as much power or boost through it ( but that goes for the S/C as well ).

As far as weight my 02' soft top, half doors 4.0L with 33s was 3500LBS. Then after the V8 swap, it was 3440LBS. Then after bumpers and 8274 winch and plate its 3700LBS. Hahaha.

Originally Posted by sourskittle

Yea, 5.0L V8 is 65LBS. lighter, and fits WAY WAY further back between the axles, which helps traction and sability.

If you swap in the all Alum LSx motor ( vs the truck versions with iron blocks ) you drop an insane amount of weight over the 4.0L.

Just trying to help him make the best choice of power adder. Either way it gonna be cool. If I posted up that I was going to swap in a suzuki sammy 1.3L motor into my TJ with a 150shot, I'd hope people would try to change my mind. Either way I'd make 200LBS of torque at 2500rpms. Its a clear cut answer that a turbo is better in everyway other than pumbing the exhuast to the turbo, which on the 2.4L, its already been taken care of via the SRT4. We're just trying to provide information so he will know all the facts. If I needed info on building a carb or rebuilding a tranny, I'd be asking people that know. Adam and I odvously know the "turbochagers vs S/C" debate. And I used to be a sponsored product tester for a major SRT4 parts builder ( and one of my best friends actully builds the upgraded turbos they sell ). I've built two 2.4L SRT4 motors. I have a V8 swap. I also own another 4.0L. I'd say as far as "knowing", when it comes to making power with the 2.4L, I have the back ground to give advise. Like I said, if I said I was going to rebuild my first manual tranny or build a 4-link, I'd ask people that know.

Weither or not he chooses to travel the path that's tried and true or to make his own way with a 2.4L S/C is upto him. Either one will be cool. But its not just my opinion, its a FACT that turbos make torque. Its a FACT that a properly sized turbocharger will make power FASTER/lower in the RPM band. Its a FACT that turbos make more power with less stress on the motor.

It used to be true, that lag and other problems with turbos happened, but digital FI pretty much cleared that up. What's the first real fast turbo car ? Buick grand national. What was so speical about it ? V6 ? No. Intercooled ? No. SFI ( sequental fuel injection ).

Go test drive a new VW GTi 2.0T or a BMW 335i. They will show you that turbos can be seemless and create extreme torque. You can't even tell the cars are turbocharged, they are just quick with perfect power delevery.

Originally Posted by bebout

......

Originally Posted by spyder6

the next one that says shenanigans im pistol whipping in the face

Originally Posted by QuickSilverCon

"Hey Farva, what's the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy **** on the wall and the mozzarella sticks?"

This is post #9

Originally Posted by never monday

absolutely! I have a 2.4 and NVG sitting on the shelf that might get installed.

it was sold.

and post #13

Originally Posted by never monday

no clue. I think they are home made....


anyone have one of these laying around?

[Wheelin98TJ]

Originally Posted by never monday

Ryan,
All of these were unnecessary

That is the beauty of an online forum.

You get varying opinions and ideas.

If you do not want opinion and ideas, why start a thread? You might as well have a discussion with yourself.

[bradthebard]

Originally Posted by never monday

Ryan,
All of these were unnecessary

So you posted them all up again?

[JDGreen04TJ]

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

That is the beauty of an online forum.

You get varying opinions and ideas.

If you do not want opinion and ideas, why start a thread? You might as well have a discussion with yourself.

yes it is, but when he already told everybody the way the build was going to go, everyone insists that he has to go about doing in one way. that is the beauty i think of this, he is going to do something different. isn't that what this is all about? Sorry to Hi-jack, but i am really interested in how he is going to go about doing this, seeing as how i haven't seen one done. and i will watch this avidly. Best of luck Monday.....

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ

That is the beauty of an online forum.

You get varying opinions and ideas.

If you do not want opinion and ideas, why start a thread? You might as well have a discussion with yourself.

so wasting 9 pages of inconsequential drivel is a good thing?

Originally Posted by JDGreen04TJ

yes it is, but when he already told everybody the way the build was going to go, everyone insists that he has to go about doing in one way. that is the beauty i think of this, he is going to do something different. isn't that what this is all about? Sorry to Hi-jack, but i am really interested in how he is going to go about doing this, seeing as how i haven't seen one done. and i will watch this avidly. Best of luck Monday.....

thanks

Since I don't get out of TJ tech much. Is there a better place to blog the build?

[sourskittle]

Originally Posted by adam728

I think at this point you might as well start a new thread once the build is underway, or have the mods delete everything but the very first post in this one (since too many people, like me, didn't thoroughly read everything before butting in).

+1
Just make yourself a webpage or myspace or something and link everyone else to it, that way, its only your content.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by sourskittle

Just make yourself a webpage or myspace or something and link everyone else to it, that way, its only your content.

Wow talk about flopping to the exteram opposite.

WTF is wrong with having a discusion about how the Jeep owner wants their truck and why.
What makes the owners ideas important to them. Instead of bragging about how much you know about your topic. Or flat out derailing the thread with ideas the owner has no interest in.

:shock: kind like me going in a thread about building a mud truck and pushing an LCG build.