[spyder6]

Originally Posted by never monday

curb weight is with all the street stuff
doors, windshield, wiper motor and linkage, tail gate, dash, HVAC...etc

2500 is optimistic, 2700 is doable with my weights from the black truck

also, the 6speed is entirely cased in aluminum and is very light as it is. and if im not mistaken the 2.4L is lighter than the 2.5 by like a 100 lbs or something like that

[Jeepster83]

Originally Posted by mudb8

you could always find a daytona with a 300hp 2.6 4 banger, if you insist on Mitsubishi!

there. fixed it for ya'.

[sourskittle]

Originally Posted by adam728

Sorry, I didn't really mean to further this thread off track. I amvery interested in what Never Monday does with this build (I'm a fan of the LCG builds).

I just jumped in because I hate the generalizations made about turbo vs superchargers.
Turbo lag
Turbos only make power at high rpm
Superchargers make tons more torque
Etc etc

Most of these sterotypes became well seeded in the automotive enthusiest communities because they held very true, 25 years ago. Carbureted blow-thru systems and very basic EFI systems severily limited boost/timing/fuel control, and turbo car often had tons of lag. Now variable vane turbos, direct injection, and nearly limitless fuel/timing/boost control has transformed what turbos are capable of.

Superchargers take power to make power. I didn't claim that they don't increase power, I just claimed that there is a threashold that must be reached before they start making power. It's entirely possible for a supercharger to be making boost near idle, but take 10 hp to spin it while only building 7 hp over stock. Net gain? -3 hp. Bring the rpm up a bit and you'll quickly cross that threashold and start making much more power. Not all systems will act this way, but the "superchargers = torque" is just another generalization that doesn't always hold true. Plus, since a supercharger takes power to make power it can never have the usable power potential of a turbo. In general (there's that stupid word again) it takes 1psi more boost from a supercharger than from a turbo to get the same usable hp.

Turbos can spool at quite low rpm. I loosely follow some VW boards because there is a turbo'd Passat sitting in our driveway. Some of these cars will reach max boost (10-12 psi) by 1800 rpm, and be pushing a fair amount of boost (2-3 psi) by 1200 rpm. Some of the nearly stock cars can lay down over 200 ftlbs at the wheels from 2300 rpm to over 5000 rpm in a very flat fashion.

Anyway, I'm about to fall off my soap box. I just wanted to put in my 2 cents against the turbo vs supercharger stereotypes.

On with the build, in whatever direction you chose to take it!!!!!

I agree with every single thing you posted.

As far as the S/C, I still like the idea. I think its great on a 2.5L. When you already have a viable option to turbo the 2.4L with ease, it just doesn't make sense to me to S/C it.

Here is a quote from a guy that actully owns this 2.5L S/C YJ.
" It is a sweet *** way to get 200 hp out of a 2.5 though. Puttin out 5-7 lbs from 2500 to redline."
Here is his YJ. http://chuckstrucks.iforumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=90812&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0&mforum=chuckstrucks

The SRT4 turbo with an aftermarket ( $90 ) wastegate will make boost around 1500-1800RPMs. I actully clipped my turbine wheel on mine to ADD LAG to try and gain some traction and it also adds to the topend.

And when adam posted "Some of the nearly stock cars can lay down over 200 ftlbs at the wheels from 2300 rpm to over 5000 rpm in a very flat fashion." In the quoted post, he didn't mean that it would make 200TQ at 5000rpms, he meant it would make 200TQ STARTING at 2500rpms. That's is also with computer controlled boost. When you manually control the boost on these little bitty turbos ( jetta/SRT4 size ) you can get boost almost off idle. Basiclly when "a load" is added, they will make boost.

The S/C is still cool, I really like that YJ I posted. If you do S/C it, I'll follow the build still.

Ole yea, and if you leave the 2.4L at its stock compression ratio with the turbo, it will spool even FASTER !!! You just won't be able to push as much power or boost through it ( but that goes for the S/C as well ).

As far as weight my 02' soft top, half doors 4.0L with 33s was 3500LBS. Then after the V8 swap, it was 3440LBS. Then after bumpers and 8274 winch and plate its 3700LBS. Hahaha.

[wrangler2007]

How did you lose 60lbs on your jeep with a V-8 swap? Why are there still posts about a turbo when he is going with a S/C?

[Wheelin98TJ]

Originally Posted by wrangler2007

How did you lose 60lbs on your jeep with a V-8 swap? ...

Because the 4.0 I6 is a heavy pig.

I'm loosing about the same amount of weight with my V8 swap.

[never monday]

Let's get a few things on the table.
It's my build. I'm sharing it on the web for fun. I do things differently than most, someone might learn something from it.

About turbo's
My truck has a turbo.
My wife's car has a turbo.
My VW Vanagon camper has a turbo.
I get paid to work on turbo engines.
I want to play with something different. More for the challenge of the build than the power output.

[sourskittle]

Originally Posted by wrangler2007

How did you lose 60lbs on your jeep with a V-8 swap? Why are there still posts about a turbo when he is going with a S/C?

Yea, 5.0L V8 is 65LBS. lighter, and fits WAY WAY further back between the axles, which helps traction and sability.

If you swap in the all Alum LSx motor ( vs the truck versions with iron blocks ) you drop an insane amount of weight over the 4.0L.

Just trying to help him make the best choice of power adder. Either way it gonna be cool. If I posted up that I was going to swap in a suzuki sammy 1.3L motor into my TJ with a 150shot, I'd hope people would try to change my mind. Either way I'd make 200LBS of torque at 2500rpms. Its a clear cut answer that a turbo is better in everyway other than pumbing the exhuast to the turbo, which on the 2.4L, its already been taken care of via the SRT4. We're just trying to provide information so he will know all the facts. If I needed info on building a carb or rebuilding a tranny, I'd be asking people that know. Adam and I odvously know the "turbochagers vs S/C" debate. And I used to be a sponsored product tester for a major SRT4 parts builder ( and one of my best friends actully builds the upgraded turbos they sell ). I've built two 2.4L SRT4 motors. I have a V8 swap. I also own another 4.0L. I'd say as far as "knowing", when it comes to making power with the 2.4L, I have the back ground to give advise. Like I said, if I said I was going to rebuild my first manual tranny or build a 4-link, I'd ask people that know.

Weither or not he chooses to travel the path that's tried and true or to make his own way with a 2.4L S/C is upto him. Either one will be cool. But its not just my opinion, its a FACT that turbos make torque. Its a FACT that a properly sized turbocharger will make power FASTER/lower in the RPM band. Its a FACT that turbos make more power with less stress on the motor.

It used to be true, that lag and other problems with turbos happened, but digital FI pretty much cleared that up. What's the first real fast turbo car ? Buick grand national. What was so speical about it ? V6 ? No. Intercooled ? No. SFI ( sequental fuel injection ).

Go test drive a new VW GTi 2.0T or a BMW 335i. They will show you that turbos can be seemless and create extreme torque. You can't even tell the cars are turbocharged, they are just quick with perfect power delevery.

[sourskittle]

Originally Posted by never monday

Let's get a few things on the table.
It's my build. I'm sharing it on the web for fun. I do things differently than most, someone might learn something from it.

About turbo's
My truck has a turbo.
My wife's car has a turbo.
My VW Vanagon camper has a turbo.
I get paid to work on turbo engines.
I want to play with something different. More for the challenge of the build than the power output.

Cool then. I'll let you know if I come across a roots blower for cheap. I always find them when I'm not looking for one, haha. I think craigslist would be an easy place to find one.

[never monday]

The next person who posts about a turbo, SRT4 or damn double wide motor. I'm going to ask the mods to ban.

This is. 2.4SC build using an Eaton M62 blower.

[Jeepster83]

found some decent deals on ebay. nothing too hot but a couple of luke warm deals on ecotec superchargers. that blower does some really good things in my stepmoms cobalt with an underdrive kit.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=m62+eaton+supercharger&_armrs=1&_from= &_ipg=&_newu=1&_sop=1

[Jeepster83]

just curious. are you dead-set on the eaton M62 or would you consider a different name/style? im sure youve seen the RIPP supercharger thread on here but to my knowledge its only for a 4.0. i havent done any research on them so i dont know if they have a 2.5/2.4 supercharger.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Jeepster83

just curious. are you dead-set on the eaton M62 or would you consider a different name/style? im sure youve seen the RIPP supercharger thread on here but to my knowledge its only for a 4.0. i havent done any research on them so i dont know if they have a 2.5/2.4 supercharger.

yes. I have a decent amount of experience with the smaller M45 and a touch with the M62.

[Sobie]

whats your plans for internals on the 2.4? are you going to go with srt-4 rods and pistons? what about the head, are you going to get it opened up at all? if not i might suggest going to junkyard and finding a head off a 1995-1999 DOHC neon. im 95% sure that the DOHC 2.0 head flows more than the 2.4 head. the 2.0 and 2.4 are, for the most part, the same engine but the 2.4 has a 1 inch taller block. you may want to look around on neons.org for that too, the DOHC's were kinda rare. but thats where im remembering this info from.

cant wait to see the build come out!

[Bennettj13]

Awesome Pat. I've been too busy screwing with my own Jeep, and spending time with the family since I got home to look at the Tech section lately, but I am REALLY glad to see you getting back behind the wheel of a Jeep. Maybe we'll get to wheel together after all. Good luck brother. Sounds like it will be awesome.

[never monday]

Neon experts please go away

I could care less about HP, drift or drag racing performance.
This Jeep is being built to drive 60 feet per min.
5000 RPM horsepower isn't going to help. The only reason for the forced induction is for altitude compensation.