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Unread 12-17-2012, 10:15 AM   #106
GMBNT42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed View Post
thats why you enjoy a TC with less gear reduction?

the simple mod is worth having a 241 over a 231
More gear reduction does not equate to better. Its dependant on needs and other equipment. Read above post. But in short, my lo range crawl ratio with a 231's 2.72:1 ratio is steeper than yours with your 4:1 lo range, even if you switch to 5.13 axle gears. And again, I gear correctly for my wheeling and habits, if anything, even with the 2.72:1 low range Im a bit too low for my taste. The slightly larger 35's Ill be installing this spring should help a bit with that.

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Unread 12-17-2012, 10:21 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by TURBevO8 View Post
He said "modded" so maybe he meant with a Teralow or something? I have read too many stories of guys breaking those. Plus for what you pay for a Teralow you can buy a 241 that is designed for that amount of torque on every single part in the tcase by Jeep. That and I got mine for $700 so that really made the decision easy.
No, no Tera Lo installed, just went with a full JB Conversions upgrade, wide chain kit, master rebuild etc(And even bought a pair of case halves to have as a spare since they are dirt cheap)......I can see running a 241 if your running heavy 37's or larger, or just extreme rock crawling......there are a number of scenarios where a 241 makes sense. But it doesn't in all cases. Its dependant on individual needs and habits. A built up 231 is a very nice option for some.
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Unread 12-17-2012, 10:36 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
More gear reduction does not equate to better. Its dependant on needs and other equipment. Read above post. But in short, my lo range crawl ratio with a 231's 2.72:1 ratio is steeper than yours with your 4:1 lo range, even if you switch to 5.13 axle gears. And again, I gear correctly for my wheeling and habits, if anything, even with the 2.72:1 low range Im a bit too low for my taste. The slightly larger 35's Ill be installing this spring should help a bit with that.
i think your numbers are off on the 5.13's, but i get what you are saying. and you are forgetting about the torque converter in automatics, but again, symantics.

I think you are stretching the numbers and adding a bit of fluff, but its cool.

IMHO, id much rather have the 4:1, most wheeling I am in 1:1 and do just fine, only hit 4lo when needed. and i find it hard to believe your pricing numbers for two modded np231's vs a single np241. and then you get to add a SYE. but none of this matters as its all personal opinions, i've tried both and love the 4:1. seriously looking into a rubi-crawler or a 4 sp atlas to get closer to 11:1, but that will be after the gear change to 5.13's
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Unread 12-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed View Post
i think your numbers are off on the 5.13's, but i get what you are saying. and you are forgetting about the torque converter in automatics, but again, symantics.

I think you are stretching the numbers and adding a bit of fluff, but its cool.

IMHO, id much rather have the 4:1, most wheeling I am in 1:1 and do just fine, only hit 4lo when needed. and i find it hard to believe your pricing numbers for two modded np231's vs a single np241. and then you get to add a SYE. but none of this matters as its all personal opinions, i've tried both and love the 4:1. seriously looking into a rubi-crawler or a 4 sp atlas to get closer to 11:1, but that will be after the gear change to 5.13's
Adding "fluff"? Where?

Here YOU plug in the #'s.

6 speed manual 1st gear: 4.46:1

42rle 1st gear: 2.84:1

231TC: 2.72:1

241TC 4:1

Your axle ratio: 4.10:1

Mine: 4.88:1

Your future axle ratio 5.13:1

Calculator: http://www.nakedjeep.com/Knowledge/J...rawlRatio.html

Even with 5.13's and the 4:1 lo range your crawl ratio isn't quite as steep as mine in LO.

4.46 x 4.88 x 2.72 ='s roughly 60x vs. 2.84 x 4.10(Or change it to 5.13) x 4............. 46x or 58x roughly

As for my HD 231 upgrade, it cost me just over $500 for master rebuild kit, wide chain conversion and HD 6 gear planetary set. I got my SYE and DS for $329 shipped on top of that. Picked up a spare set of new case halves off Ebay for $80. So $900 total which includes a SYE/DS spare case and all the old parts from my old TC which are still in perfect condition.

No number stretching, no added fluff.
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Unread 12-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
Adding "fluff"? Where?

As for my HD 231 upgrade, it cost me just over $500 for master rebuild kit, wide chain conversion and HD 6 gear planetary set. I got my SYE and DS for $329 shipped on top of that. Picked up a spare set of new case halves off Ebay for $80. So $900 total which includes a SYE/DS spare case and all the old parts from my old TC which are still in perfect condition.

No number stretching, no added fluff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMBNT42 View Post
In fact for the price of 1 used 241TC I can have 2 built up 231's and plenty of money left over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBevO8 View Post
That and I got mine for $700 so that really made the decision easy.
so, for the price of 1 used 241, $700, you can build two 231's for how much?

no number stretching or added fluff there
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Unread 12-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed View Post
so, for the price of 1 used 241, $700, you can build two 231's for how much?

no number stretching or added fluff there
How often do you find Jeep 241's for $700? That less than half normally. And for used. My 231 is basically upgraded/new.
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Unread 12-17-2012, 02:17 PM   #112
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oh ok, well i found em for $900 back when i had my last jeep, and that was a quick internet search. you are good at back talking out of things and exaggerating your point, which has nothing to do with the topic and all because you made a wild claim. i'm done feeding this troll, have fun. maybe in a few days you'll be back to telling everyone how good new england is

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Unread 12-17-2012, 02:18 PM   #113
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btw, the uhc skid went in very easily, even without a lopro and the big, beastly, oversized 241 TC and a 42RLE
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Unread 12-17-2012, 02:19 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBevO8 View Post
The 1.5" would've given enough fan clearance but would it have moved the entire drive train up, includinding the fact that the rear of the drivetrain (tcase side) is now moved up, so much that I would hit something else on the tub? Idk. It was an easy enough fix to make it all work.



He said "modded" so maybe he meant with a Teralow or something? I have read too many stories of guys breaking those. Plus for what you pay for a Teralow you can buy a 241 that is designed for that amount of torque on every single part in the tcase by Jeep. That and I got mine for $700 so that really made the decision easy.



If no BL then you are doing this for drivetrain angle? If not, I'd stick with stock. What I did yesterday was remove the washer bottle first. There are 2 tabs and one round "plug". I just pushed on the top of the bottle toward the fire wall and it flexed and popped right out. It seems impossible to remove the shroud without removing the rad and I didnt feel like doing that. So I took the Dremel with a little grinder bit and slotted all the holes vertically up about 1/2". Then pushed the shroud down until it almost contacted the lower coolant hose and tightened the bolts back up. No more fan hitting so I am happy.

Turb I had the same issue on my install with the 241 contacting the tub in the exact same place you did. I lowered the TC down and tried to dimple the tub by stacking SS washers and then jacking the TC into the tub, also tried some hard wood pieces in the same spot with no luck. Going to try again this weekend with a pneumatic air hammer and spade tip and get some clearance in that area. Not sure how yours sounds with the rubber pad but before I put a buffer in there you could hear all of the gear noise in the cab.

I did the same quick fix with my dremel and the shroud. I would not go with a higher BL or MML. Just clearance the tub and you will be good to go, the 241 is a bomber TC, 231 is not worth putting money into...
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Unread 12-17-2012, 02:35 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by rusty762 View Post
Turb I had the same issue on my install with the 241 contacting the tub in the exact same place you did. I lowered the TC down and tried to dimple the tub by stacking SS washers and then jacking the TC into the tub, also tried some hard wood pieces in the same spot with no luck. Going to try again this weekend with a pneumatic air hammer and spade tip and get some clearance in that area. Not sure how yours sounds with the rubber pad but before I put a buffer in there you could hear all of the gear noise in the cab.

I did the same quick fix with my dremel and the shroud. I would not go with a higher BL or MML. Just clearance the tub and you will be good to go, the 241 is a bomber TC, 231 is not worth putting money into...
And why wouldn't you recommend a slightly higher MML or BL? Instead lets hack away and beat the tub into submission to get it to fit. There is no issue with doing a 1.5" or 2.0" MML or BL vs. a 1" MML/BL. In fact its just the opposite. By doing so you give yourself the proper room and clearance between components and keep the original drivetrain angles in tact. Instead of having the front of the engine nosing down slightly with the TC case tail jacking up into the tub of the body.
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Unread 12-17-2012, 07:49 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Ironhead_Jed View Post
oh ok, well i found em for $900 back when i had my last jeep, and that was a quick internet search. you are good at back talking out of things and exaggerating your point, which has nothing to do with the topic and all because you made a wild claim. i'm done feeding this troll, have fun. maybe in a few days you'll be back to telling everyone how good new england is

I just did a search on Craigs, Ebay, here etc......average price for a used 241 was in the $1400-1500 range. I have seen them in the $1k range as well, Ive seen em even cheaper.....just not typical. Regardless a TC case with a 4:1 ratio isn't always optimal.

BTW, please tell me what points here I "exaggerated" on, or the wild claims?

Point them out and expand on them please.


Oh and off topic talk about Football is a different story.

NE is still the team to beat though. But we can leave that for the other thread.
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Unread 12-17-2012, 10:35 PM   #117
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GMBNT42
Your profile says you run 3.73's and you just bought 4.56's maybe this is what he means by "exaggerated" ?
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Unread 12-18-2012, 06:32 AM   #118
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GMBNT42
Your profile says you run 3.73's and you just bought 4.56's maybe this is what he means by "exaggerated" ?
My profile is beyond outdated and incomplete.......
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Unread 12-18-2012, 01:58 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by rusty762 View Post
Turb I had the same issue on my install with the 241 contacting the tub in the exact same place you did. I lowered the TC down and tried to dimple the tub by stacking SS washers and then jacking the TC into the tub, also tried some hard wood pieces in the same spot with no luck. Going to try again this weekend with a pneumatic air hammer and spade tip and get some clearance in that area. Not sure how yours sounds with the rubber pad but before I put a buffer in there you could hear all of the gear noise in the cab.

I did the same quick fix with my dremel and the shroud. I would not go with a higher BL or MML. Just clearance the tub and you will be good to go, the 241 is a bomber TC, 231 is not worth putting money into...
I tried beating on the tub with a pipe and 5# sledge with little luck. I was afraid the air hammer would potentially put a hole or tear in the tub. At any rate I got everything done and drove it work today. No issues or crazy noises at all and overall love the upgrade and am content with it as is (pending getting the speedo working again). I will see how it all does in the rocks this upcoming weekend. Hopefully will not regret going aluminum over steel. Only comment on the 231, for me personally, it spun the tires too fast for the type of terrain I do. Now I can let the clutch out, giving it no gas, and it just crawls. And this is only on 33s and 4.56s. When I go to 35s I think this will still be very nice in the rocks while lowering my RPMs on the highway (35s and 4.56s) which will be a win-win for me.
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Unread 12-18-2012, 02:08 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by TURBevO8 View Post

I tried beating on the tub with a pipe and 5# sledge with little luck. I was afraid the air hammer would potentially put a hole or tear in the tub. At any rate I got everything done and drove it work today. No issues or crazy noises at all and overall love the upgrade and am content with it as is (pending getting the speedo working again). I will see how it all does in the rocks this upcoming weekend. Hopefully will not regret going aluminum over steel. Only comment on the 231, for me personally, it spun the tires too fast for the type of terrain I do. Now I can let the clutch out, giving it no gas, and it just crawls. And this is only on 33s and 4.56s. When I go to 35s I think this will still be very nice in the rocks while lowering my RPMs on the highway (35s and 4.56s) which will be a win-win for me.
And thats wut matters....the 241 works best for your style of wheeling...all the power to ya....but imo with that 241.....go with a 1.25" bl and 1.5" mml if u still can....just better suited overall.....im changing out my 1" mml and bl for a 1.5" mml and a 1.5" bl if i can find a good one.....just a better solutuon for the ucf and savvy high tuck skids
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