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Unread 11-19-2012, 02:35 PM   #46
757hokie83
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Peyts, that's pretty much the same as what i want to do to my '04. I've had it since March and been ready to do so since March, lol....unfortunately my bank account is not yet ready...

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Unread 11-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ View Post
Some people think bumpstops cripple the suspension because they limit travel.

Some people are more used to stiff leaf springs that do not allow the tire to stuff all the way so the bumpstops never come in to play.

Those same people will usually tell you that sway bars are useless too.
You got that right, with my YJ, (Leaf Springs) the sway bars and track bars went into the trash years ago. Now I would never take them off of a coil sprung jeep, that is a total different story altogether.
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Unread 11-19-2012, 04:56 PM   #48
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Peyts,

Man that thing is coming a long nicely. I bet you are saying what I told you that you would say about now.. " That was not that tough of a job"..

As for the bumpstops, I would measure the travel distance from the axle to the bumpstops and them measure your shock travel distance. If the axle travel is greater than the shock distance you may want to get some before you get to rough on it.

Looks like you recruited some help with it. That is good, but now just imagine what you can do to it. I think when I put my first lift kit on is when i really got addicted to doing mods to them. It has been a bank account breaking adventure every since..
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Unread 11-20-2012, 05:21 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattJeep View Post
A torch is 1000x more effective than any lubricant. Not sure why no one mentions that. Good luck with the install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evi1genius View Post
What, no pictures of the fire?
MattJeep... its funny you should say that a torch is more effective, as we found it to be quite useful at certain times throughout the process. However, as Evi1genius has mentioned, someone may have also be a bit of a pyro during the install!
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Unread 11-20-2012, 06:24 AM   #50
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It was a small fire but good enough for an oh Sh#@ moment and a few laughs after.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 08:08 AM   #51
Peyts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 757hokie83 View Post
Peyts, that's pretty much the same as what i want to do to my '04. I've had it since March and been ready to do so since March, lol....unfortunately my bank account is not yet ready...
Hey there, Hokie! Regarding the bank account, I hear where you're coming from. I found some ways to save a few bucks here and there, which may help you. I'll give you a breakdown of what I spent & from where I bought/ordered.

BDS Suspension 2" Lift
The best price I could find was ordering it from Jim MacDonald at Rock Spyder (Markham, Ontario)... the kit was $400 even. Bought four black shock boots... which cost $20 total. I also bought the BDS cam bolt kit, which cost an additional $38 or so... though I've since learned that I may not need that cam bolt kit, and hence could up up returning it for a refund.

Spidertrax Wheel Spacers
The best price I found was $99 per pair, and you obviously need two pair. I ordered mine from Rickie Bordelon at Light Line of Louisiana, in Baton Rouge, LA... Rickie will ship them anywhere in Canada and the US (not sure of shipping, though... I picked them up directly from Rickie when I was visiting the area). He's a fantastic guy to deal with.

You can also order them through Quadratec... if you contact the vendor on here via the forum, he'll likely give you free ground shipping within the US on your order... they'll also price match, so do some digging on prices.

31x10.5-15 Tires
I ended up going with the Goodyear Wrangler Territory tires... they are a very good tire, which are made exclusively for Canadian Tire (and Walmart in the US, I believe)... they are almost identical to the Duratrac. I was also looking at BFG A/T2s and General Grabber A/Ts... my decision was ultimately made based on price (as all three are great tires!). I was able to pick up two used Territory tires, but with very minimal useage, for a mere $100... also, a fellow member of the Ottawa Jeep Club gave me his used Territory as a spare at no charge... which meant I only had to buy two new tires, for which I waited until they went on sale for $175 each (vs. $255 each) at Canadian Tire. As such, I ended up getting five tires for about $500, once taxes were added.


Installation
Price quotes to install the lift kit ranged from $300 (a mechanic friend of a friend) to $600 or more at a 4x4 shop. Further, installing and balancing the tires would typically cost about $100.

But having someone install it wasn't just a matter of cost... I also figured that I needed to learn more about my Jeep and how to maintain/repair it.

That's where I reached out to some new friends at the Ottawa Jeep Club... several members were more than happy to volunteer for a Club "Wrench Day". I supplied the frosty cold beverages and the pizza, they supplied the tools, the garage and their time. I learned A TON (it was a HUGE learning opportunity for me!) and had a hell of a fun day while installing the lift & wheel spacers... least I could do was supply a couple flats of lager and 3 big pizzas.

As for the tire installation & balancing, a Club member and buddy of mine managed to take care of that for me as well. The cost? Some off-roading near his neck of the woods.

Lastly...
I also did not go out and buy all these parts/pieces in one fail swoop... I saved a few bucks here and there, and bought a piece when the right opportunity presented itself... meaning I had some coin and I found the right item at the right price.

I'd suggest checking around at local Jeep clubs and used goods websites such as kijiji (you may not have that in the US), Craigslist or whatever. You may be surprised what you find for a great price, especially on tires. Though I wouldn't cheap out on wheel spacers (like crappy Chinese ones on eBay, etc)... I would also suggest the BDS kit over any others, for the reasons mentioned in the first post on this thread.

Good luck, buddy! Cheers!
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Unread 11-20-2012, 10:22 AM   #52
Kyle_TJ
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Wow Peyts, pictures of me wrenching your jeep on Jeepforum!! I'm a celeb now
Your jeep is coming along nice for sure. And one quick correction from your earlier post... my shocks are skyjacker nitros (not RC) and I love them It's the BB spacers that I'll quickly be replacing with lift coils because my stockers are sagging an inch. But your jeep is toight!! Wheel it for a while and it'll start to feel like mine hahaha
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Unread 11-20-2012, 10:41 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Kyle_TJ View Post
Wow Peyts, pictures of me wrenching your jeep on Jeepforum!! I'm a celeb now
Your jeep is coming along nice for sure. And one quick correction from your earlier post... my shocks are skyjacker nitros (not RC) and I love them It's the BB spacers that I'll quickly be replacing with lift coils because my stockers are sagging an inch. But your jeep is toight!! Wheel it for a while and it'll start to feel like mine hahaha
Nah, you were a celeb well before those pictures!

My apologies on messing up your shock type... honestly thought they were Rubicon Express. My bad.

Stoked you gave the on my TJ, bro. As for wheeling... that's while I'll only do the tame stuff, not like the batsh*t crazy stuff I see you doin!

Cheers, brother! And THANKS AGAIN so much for your help... truly appreciated.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 10:50 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by HanksRide View Post
Peyts,

Man that thing is coming a long nicely. I bet you are saying what I told you that you would say about now.. " That was not that tough of a job"..

As for the bumpstops, I would measure the travel distance from the axle to the bumpstops and them measure your shock travel distance. If the axle travel is greater than the shock distance you may want to get some before you get to rough on it.

Looks like you recruited some help with it. That is good, but now just imagine what you can do to it. I think when I put my first lift kit on is when i really got addicted to doing mods to them. It has been a bank account breaking adventure every since..
Hey, HanksRide! Good to hear from you, buddy! The lift installation came along VERY nicely... really appreciated your input and your thread, which helped a lot. There's no way I could've done it without the Jeep Club guys... was def in over my head, especially considering that we have to deal with rust & corrosion here, which I doubt you get much of in your neck of the woods. (Not that I'm jealous at all. ) The guys had all the tools and the knowledge to help me out... was a great learning opportunity.

I'll take a look at measuring, as you mentioned... I think Kyle_TJ and I will be taking a look at that in the Spring, once I can get doing some wheeling with the Club.

Cheers!
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Unread 11-20-2012, 10:51 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by evi1genius View Post
It was a small fire but good enough for an oh Sh#@ moment and a few laughs after.
AGREED!
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Unread 11-20-2012, 11:51 AM   #56
HanksRide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyts

Hey, HanksRide! Good to hear from you, buddy! The lift installation came along VERY nicely... really appreciated your input and your thread, which helped a lot. There's no way I could've done it without the Jeep Club guys... was def in over my head, especially considering that we have to deal with rust & corrosion here, which I doubt you get much of in your neck of the woods. (Not that I'm jealous at all. ) The guys had all the tools and the knowledge to help me out... was a great learning opportunity.

I'll take a look at measuring, as you mentioned... I think Kyle_TJ and I will be taking a look at that in the Spring, once I can get doing some wheeling with the Club.

Cheers!
I wouldn't wait to long on checking you shock travel. If in fact they are bottoming out, I suppose it could happen just speeding down a rough road. That would not be good for your shocks. One good time of bottoming out on them could cause some damage. Makes me want to check that on my daughters TJ, can't remember if we did bump stops or not.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 06:00 PM   #57
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Hi, Guys. Peyts sent me a PM about his track bars, and I thought I'd post my thoughts here for him in his thread.

First of all, great write-up! I'm going to forward it to the marketing gargoyles to see if they can include it on our blog. I love all the 2" pics that the OP and others have posted here- it's great to see the variety of things that people can make a 2" lift do.

On the bump stop question, you should not be able to top out the shocks we provide before even the stock bump stop is compressed- I hope. Your results may vary depending on weather or not you try to make your TJ fly (not recommended for Dana 30 axle longevity, BTW) Typically there should be at least an inch of shock left at full compression. Full droop disconneceted the shock will be your limiting strap with aftermarket control arms- with stock control arms, you may or may not be hanging from the shocks, depending on condition and age of your bushings, etc...

Even if you are using your shocks for a limiting strap, it is not the end of the world with a Hydro shock. I will confess to using my front hyrdos for limiting straps for several years, UNTIL I bought our fancy new Fox shocks. I would not use those for a limiting strap, they are way higher tech, and expensive, but not really as forgiving as limiting straps.

As far as needing longer stops, it depends on tire size and driving style. The best thing I can say is to disconnect the front and stuff the tires one at a time, and if possible both at the same time (ratchet straps can help make that happen), and see if the lower pad hits the bump stop before the tire hits the fender, as that is one of the two things you want- Tire to stop short of the fender, and more importantly, full contact with the bump stop pad, as the Dana 30 is kind of bendy, and improper bump stops can exacerbate that.

If you do not have contact, then it might be worth your while to purchase bump stops. When the 2" kit was released it was long before the LCG thing really caught on, and that kit got installed more at dealerships looking to put slightly larger tires on Jeeps on the lot- hence the lack of them in the kit. With the way tings are now in Jeepdom, do you guys think we should include them?

This brings me to the original intent of this small book- Peyts asked about Track Bars- it sounds like he may have need of them after installing the kit. Someone (Kodiak? I think??) mentioned earlier in the thread that all Jeeps are different. In my career behind the counter in an Off Road shop prior to working at BDS, I installed a virtually endless number of 2" lifts of one style or another, be it BDS, RE, OME, Spacers, Springs, ACOS, whatever, on both the TJ and LJ, 4cyl and 4.0 and what I've found is that the vast majority of Jeeps with a 2" lift are well within spec side-to-side without the need of any additional track bar love.

That vast majority does not cover all Jeeps, however. Some of them end up with more of a "dog track" than others, sometimes even to the point that it's actually noticeable outside the vehicle. It is uncommon, but not unheard of. What I tell people is this: it's up to you if you want to do them or not- the small amount that the axles are off is really not a big deal as far as functionality goes, especially with the wheel spacers that Peyts is running, or with aftermarket wheels. The people that have issues are the ones that have stock wheels with wider tires- they find that the rear tires, especially the passenger rear are VERY close to the coil bucket on the axle.

Peyts also asked about a rear bracket as opposed to a rear adjustable track bar- if you must do a bracket, weld it on, don't just bolt it. I have had one welded to my rear 44 for about 5 years of real abuse, and it has not moved a millimeter. I just used the existing holes and did not drill any new holes in the factory bracket, as it's pretty cheesey to begin with, and it's been fine welded on. That being said it's a pain in the butt to reattach the stock track bar with the opposing angles of the frame and new axle bracket.

That's about all I've got- I'm :30 seconds from done with my day, but I hope I helped a little bit.

-Jason
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Unread 11-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDS-Tech View Post
Hi, Guys. Peyts sent me a PM about his track bars, and I thought I'd post my thoughts here for him in his thread.

First of all, great write-up! I'm going to forward it to the marketing gargoyles to see if they can include it on our blog. I love all the 2" pics that the OP and others have posted here- it's great to see the variety of things that people can make a 2" lift do.

On the bump stop question, you should not be able to top out the shocks we provide before even the stock bump stop is compressed- I hope. Your results may vary depending on weather or not you try to make your TJ fly (not recommended for Dana 30 axle longevity, BTW) Typically there should be at least an inch of shock left at full compression. Full droop disconneceted the shock will be your limiting strap with aftermarket control arms- with stock control arms, you may or may not be hanging from the shocks, depending on condition and age of your bushings, etc...

Even if you are using your shocks for a limiting strap, it is not the end of the world with a Hydro shock. I will confess to using my front hyrdos for limiting straps for several years, UNTIL I bought our fancy new Fox shocks. I would not use those for a limiting strap, they are way higher tech, and expensive, but not really as forgiving as limiting straps.

As far as needing longer stops, it depends on tire size and driving style. The best thing I can say is to disconnect the front and stuff the tires one at a time, and if possible both at the same time (ratchet straps can help make that happen), and see if the lower pad hits the bump stop before the tire hits the fender, as that is one of the two things you want- Tire to stop short of the fender, and more importantly, full contact with the bump stop pad, as the Dana 30 is kind of bendy, and improper bump stops can exacerbate that.

If you do not have contact, then it might be worth your while to purchase bump stops. When the 2" kit was released it was long before the LCG thing really caught on, and that kit got installed more at dealerships looking to put slightly larger tires on Jeeps on the lot- hence the lack of them in the kit. With the way tings are now in Jeepdom, do you guys think we should include them?

This brings me to the original intent of this small book- Peyts asked about Track Bars- it sounds like he may have need of them after installing the kit. Someone (Kodiak? I think??) mentioned earlier in the thread that all Jeeps are different. In my career behind the counter in an Off Road shop prior to working at BDS, I installed a virtually endless number of 2" lifts of one style or another, be it BDS, RE, OME, Spacers, Springs, ACOS, whatever, on both the TJ and LJ, 4cyl and 4.0 and what I've found is that the vast majority of Jeeps with a 2" lift are well within spec side-to-side without the need of any additional track bar love.

That vast majority does not cover all Jeeps, however. Some of them end up with more of a "dog track" than others, sometimes even to the point that it's actually noticeable outside the vehicle. It is uncommon, but not unheard of. What I tell people is this: it's up to you if you want to do them or not- the small amount that the axles are off is really not a big deal as far as functionality goes, especially with the wheel spacers that Peyts is running, or with aftermarket wheels. The people that have issues are the ones that have stock wheels with wider tires- they find that the rear tires, especially the passenger rear are VERY close to the coil bucket on the axle.

Peyts also asked about a rear bracket as opposed to a rear adjustable track bar- if you must do a bracket, weld it on, don't just bolt it. I have had one welded to my rear 44 for about 5 years of real abuse, and it has not moved a millimeter. I just used the existing holes and did not drill any new holes in the factory bracket, as it's pretty cheesey to begin with, and it's been fine welded on. That being said it's a pain in the butt to reattach the stock track bar with the opposing angles of the frame and new axle bracket.

That's about all I've got- I'm :30 seconds from done with my day, but I hope I helped a little bit.

-Jason
This is how I found out I needed longer stops up front. Thats the 2 inch kit with 31s. As you can see, it pushed up the fender




The back was perfect though.



And just because.



I think you should include extended ones up front. I haven't found the rear to be an issue.
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Unread 11-20-2012, 07:01 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by BDS-Tech View Post
Hi, Guys. Peyts sent me a PM about his track bars, and I thought I'd post my thoughts here for him in his thread...

...If you do not have contact, then it might be worth your while to purchase bump stops. When the 2" kit was released it was long before the LCG thing really caught on, and that kit got installed more at dealerships looking to put slightly larger tires on Jeeps on the lot- hence the lack of them in the kit. With the way tings are now in Jeepdom, do you guys think we should include them?...

...What I tell people is this: it's up to you if you want to do them or not- the small amount that the axles are off is really not a big deal as far as functionality goes, especially with the wheel spacers that Peyts is running, or with aftermarket wheels. The people that have issues are the ones that have stock wheels with wider tires- they find that the rear tires, especially the passenger rear are VERY close to the coil bucket on the axle...

That's about all I've got- I'm :30 seconds from done with my day, but I hope I helped a little bit.

-Jason

To start... SEE WHAT I MEANT IN THE FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD?! I reckon I commented, "As such, I also like the quick, no-nonsense message replies from the BDS vendor here on the forum... I like that BDS takes the time to get back to you, and in a timely manner. Further, the vendor is honest... instead of trying to sell additional items, he advised me of things I did NOT need."

I believe the above post left by the BDS rep demonstrates what I meant.

Jason... I'll check the stops in my Jeep for sure. In the meantime to respond to your question, I think that they should be included in the kit... when I was initially looking at spacer kits, I was most drawn to those who were most complete, that is with everything I should need (shocks, boots, spacers & bump stops) for that kind of lift. However, if bump stop extensions are really not needed (or in the vast majority of cases are not needed) with a BDS lift kit installation, then I reckon it best to not to include them. It really comes down to the question: does the Jeep need them or not? If needed, then consider including them. My 2 cents, anyway.

As for the track bar and whether or not my rear tires are within spec... I'll send you some pics & measurements later this week... let me know what you think once you get a chance to view them. Cool?

Thanks again for all the info... as well as for your time. Cheers, Jason!
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Unread 11-20-2012, 07:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by 2006_Sport View Post
This is how I found out I needed longer stops up front. Thats the 2 inch kit with 31s. As you can see, it pushed up the fender

I think you should include extended ones up front. I haven't found the rear to be an issue.

Great post, brother... thanks a million for including the pics... makes it pretty clear how to test and how to identify if you need the extensions!
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