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Unread 10-24-2013, 08:19 PM   #16
cloakedwillys
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Here might be a better way to look at adding the bracket. Our track bar is designed for 3.5-4.5"of lift and a CV, the bracket will be designed for the same thing. That is correction for 8" of lift and a lot of pinion angle correction. I speak from experience when I say it is a bad idea to combine the two.

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Unread 10-24-2013, 08:57 PM   #17
biffgnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakedwillys View Post
Here might be a better way to look at adding the bracket. Our track bar is designed for 3.5-4.5"of lift and a CV, the bracket will be designed for the same thing. That is correction for 8" of lift and a lot of pinion angle correction. I speak from experience when I say it is a bad idea to combine the two.

sent from phone
OK, I'll play along with this new way of thinking. OP will be at approx. 6" (thanks to his clarification) for his driveline and your trackbar alone is designed for 3.5-4.5", how can you be sure he will be fine? Admittedly, combination of your bar with bracket may be too much adjustment but having a hard time understanding how you are so certain of your advice. Almost sounds like he needs somebody else's trackbar designed for less lift together with a bracket.

Oh, and 8" of effective driveline lift is actually not as hard to end up with as you might think.
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Unread 10-24-2013, 09:14 PM   #18
Sobie
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How does the TB address binding against the factory bracket at full droop?
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Unread 10-24-2013, 09:16 PM   #19
The_Dealer
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Matson, where are u?

The bar is designed for 3.5"-4.5" of lift, the bracket is designed for 2.5-3.5" of lift. The height of the bracket moves the mounting point closer, thus making the bar act like its longer. Also it is open top, so the bar doesn't hit the top of the factory bracket at droop. With that being said, if that bar is good for 8", isn't the same as 3.5" suspension, and adding the tt clearance. Ex: say the tt gains me 2.5", add that to my 3" lift, that's 5.5" worth. BUT, that 2.5" isn't affecting the suspension at all. So technically not the same. It may center the axle with that much lift, but will it allow the rotation. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, I've never done a tt before. Maybe someone can post a pic of 3-4" lift, a tt, and a bar without bracket and with bracket.
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Unread 10-24-2013, 09:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobie View Post
How does the TB address binding against the factory bracket at full droop?
beat me to it. The stock bracket is enclosed/braced at the top, aftermarket brackets aren't. I haven't put on my straight relocation bracket yet, and I have twice as much droop on the passenger side as the drivers side
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Unread 10-24-2013, 09:30 PM   #21
cloakedwillys
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You are over thinking ita bit. The bends in the bar allow it to work full cycle. Our LTSA kit gets full travel out of a short arm and the track bar does not bind.

I know that we have more then a few customers that are running close to the same setup that you are with no issues.

I found a post that shows our track bar full cycle in our 99 shop TJ. This jeep has a cv drive line.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showt...php?p=15515501



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Unread 10-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakedwillys View Post
You are over thinking it. The bends in the bar allow it to work full cycle. Our LTSA kit gets full travel out of a short arm and the track bar does not bind.
Or perhaps you are under thinking it. Your bar may very well work well with 3.5-4.5" of lift, but when he starts at 6" of effective lift the axle will be rotated a material amount more at ride height. When you start getting into this range of effective total lift details like this matter.

Also what do you consider "full travel out of a short arm"? Stock length shock travel? More?
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Unread 10-24-2013, 09:56 PM   #23
cloakedwillys
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For full travel I mean putting 20" under 2 of the tire on opposing corners on a cti. The rear shock is 25" fully extended and 12" of travel.

You still only have 3.25" of lift. You angles on the drive line are like that of a 5" lift but the axle to frame relationship is still only 3.25" of lift.

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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakedwillys View Post
You still only have 3.25" of lift. You angles on the drive line are like that of a 5" lift but the axle to frame relationship is still only 3.25" of lift.
Frame to axle generally? Yes. Frame side bracket to the axle side bracket? No.

The greater driveline lift will require more axle rotation in connection with properly orienting the pinion thereby rotating the axle side bracket backward and down and putting the bar closer to being in a bind in that direction when the axle cycles. If the bar/joint starts at neutral perhaps it can move though 12" of travel, but the point is its not going to start at neutral with OP's setup so it may or may not work. The answer is just not as clearcut as you'd like it to be.
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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:26 PM   #25
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He is not the first one to run a tt with a 3" lift and a CV driveline and our track bar. The added angle does not affect the length of the track bar more then what about half an inch of lift would. So he is still within the realm of what we designed the track bar for. The bracket will factor for about 20° of pinion angle. So will our track bar. I doubt that his pinion will be above 25-30°. If it is the pinion bearings will not be happy for to long.

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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:33 PM   #26
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Ok. So I just re read the posts. So his 3.25" lift is 2" of suspension and 1.25 body. The driveline will see angles that match a 4.5 " lift. Our track bar is designed for a 3.5-4.5" lift with a cv. I can not find any reason to run the bracket.

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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:37 PM   #27
The_Dealer
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That's the part I was thinking about. Ride height, yea it could work. But what about full droop? I'm at the point to where I've built enough rigs(albeit this is my first coil f&r rig) that I know I want to buy quality stuff once. From this point on, I want to be able to keep the quality parts that I buy. I am going to do an 8.8 swap around tax time (if there is one this year), and I can address the tb mount then. But for now, I haven't had a chance to really wheel this thing , as I'm trying to piece together things right before I really take it out. With the high mileage of my rig, the Po's maintenance, and finally working out the bugs from the stroker...i want to get the suspension and sye finished so I can enjoy it. Its getting pretty old doing a mod, then it not working how I want, then having to do 6 more things to get it right. The tt/sye/track bars is the next step, and I want to make sure there isn't any surprises. When I'm done I want to be able to drive strait to uwharrie, wheel the **** out of it, and be able to drive back, without the guess work. Like I said, full coils are new to me, and I'm still learning. I know mc makes quality stuff with good prices, and I'm working on a budget. I just want to be able to do it right the first time and it work
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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakedwillys View Post
Ok. So I just re read the posts. So his 3.25" lift is 2" of suspension and 1.25 body. The driveline will see angles that match a 4.5 " lift. Our track bar is designed for a 3.5-4.5" lift with a cv. I can not find any reason to run the bracket.

sent from phone
no, it must've gotten confusing. I don't have 2" rear coils anymore. I have springs that net me 3.25" of lift. I also run a 1" body lift, but that doesn't even matter. Suspension is 3" bds front with .75" spacers, rear springs end result is 3.25" . That's 3.75" f/3.25" rear suspension
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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:44 PM   #29
biffgnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakedwillys View Post
He is not the first one to run a tt with a 3" lift and a CV driveline and our track bar. The added angle does not affect the length of the track bar more then what about half an inch of lift would. So he is still within the realm of what we designed the track bar for. The bracket will factor for about 20° of pinion angle. So will our track bar. I doubt that his pinion will be above 25-30°. If it is the pinion bearings will not be happy for to long.

sent from phone
All along I've said it might work, but I'll be honest its your explanations that have ranged from vague to outright wrong.

Even in the above post you start talking about length of the trackbar where that isn't the point at all. Length is much more a factor of the frame to axle relationship generally that you tried to point us to in your last post. The point here is the orientation of the brackets to one another and what position that puts the bar and joint at. I'm going to bed so not going to bother with a right triangle calculator but I bet you'll find that the extra approx. 2.5" of driveline lift from the TT add something like 6-8" to his pinion angle. With a regular SYE, that's going to get him over 20 degrees and probably getting close to 25. Thus the recommendation that I and others made earlier in the thread that he really should have a super short SYE which would bring him back under 20 because I completely agree that being at 25 plus at ride height is not good, although not because of pinion bearing issues actually (gear oil sloshes around plenty in an axle - think about high pinion axles for example) but because if he starts in the 25 area or greater his driveshaft will likely bind at droop with even normal amounts of down travel.

It's great that you are here representing MC on the forums and engaging with customers but you really need to be a little more thoughtful and precise in your thinking and your posts. Good night.
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Unread 10-24-2013, 10:47 PM   #30
biffgnar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloakedwillys View Post
Ok. So I just re read the posts. So his 3.25" lift is 2" of suspension and 1.25 body. The driveline will see angles that match a 4.5 " lift. Our track bar is designed for a 3.5-4.5" lift with a cv. I can not find any reason to run the bracket.

sent from phone
You must not have reread them all as he clarified that the 3.25" is suspension lift (with a bl also but that doesnt figure in obviously).
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