[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by pruneda13

a friend of mine who tows disconnets his front drive shaft form the axel and bunjees it out of the way. never did ask him why. maybe you could try that.

While that might help some non-TJ 4x4 vehicles, that'd do nothing for the TJ. The TJ's front driveshaft is already internally disconnected inside the transfer case when in 2wd.

[vitapimp]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

While that might help some non-TJ 4x4 vehicles, that'd do nothing for the TJ. The TJ's front driveshaft is already internally disconnected inside the transfer case when in 2wd.

doh!!! i am a moron, never put the two and two together. my friend has a YJ. good call jerry.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by pruneda13

never put the two and two together. my friend has a YJ.

Yep that's one of the two main differences between the TJ's and YJ's NP231 t-case. The other being that the TJ's t-case will not leak ATF if the rear driveshaft is removed while the YJ's will.

[BlueFlame]

Ah, but when you put the tcase in N, the front and rear driveshafts are connected to each other, even though both are disconnected from the engine. The rig actually tows better (noticeably less drag) with the Tcase in 2hi and the trans in neutral, but can't do that with an auto. Still wouldn't explain the steering problem though.

[Older Fossil]

I've flat towed my TJ behind a motorhome for many thousands of miles, the last couple thousand with a 4" SA suspension lift. Having the front wheels track properly has never been a problem. I also have a TrueTrac in the front. Currently running 33x12.5 Goodyear MT/Rs.

As I understand it, the main reason for a level tow bar is related to stresses on the bar, particularly under heavy braking. I had to add an inverted 4" "drop receiver" to keep my tow bar level. I use a Blue Ox bar that stays on the motorhome. The towbar connects to a bracket bolted to the frame, below the front bumper.

To me it sounds like a front end geometry issue. What is your current toe and caster? Does your steering return to center on its own when you are driving it? Are the drag link and track bar parallel?

Art

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by BlueFlame

Ah, but when you put the tcase in N, the front and rear driveshafts are connected to each other, even though both are disconnected from the engine. The rig actually tows better (noticeably less drag) with the Tcase in 2hi and the trans in neutral, but can't do that with an auto.

What? Who told you the driveshafts are connected together when the t-case is in neutral? That would be like towing in 4Hi which would cause binding since the front wheels must rotate faster than the rear wheels on even the gentlest of curved roads, let alone during a turn. Personally, I would find it VERY hard to believe the f/r driveshafts are connected together when it's in neutral. The factory service manual makes no mention of that either.

Not to mention that is contrary to Jeep's official instructions to place the t-case in neutral and transmission in gear or Park. Per Jeep, that is to prevent the tranny from possibly burning up from lack of lubrication while towing.

[flhtquick]

i've read the same thing if the t case is in netural the front and rear shafts are conected some how. This needed to be solved as i need to tow mine to colorado soon and was thinking of trailering to avoid problems. My dad has pulled several different grand cher. many thousand miles with the tcase in netural and the trans in park no problems.need a spell checker david

[topfuel83]

The driveshafts are NOT connected together when the tcase is in neutral. To prove it, jack up the front (or rear) of your Jeep so the tires are off the ground. Put the tcase in neutral and spin a tire thats off the ground. You will notice the tire will spin freely, along with the front drivesahft, but the rear driveshaft remains stationary.

[neZZr]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

Personally, I would find it VERY hard to believe the f/r driveshafts are connected together when it's in neutral. The factory service manual makes no mention of that either.

Not to mention that is contrary to Jeep's official instructions to place the t-case in neutral and transmission in gear or Park. Per Jeep, that is to prevent the tranny from possibly burning up from lack of lubrication while towing.

I agree, they are not connected together, at least not on a TJ.

And like you said it is very important that the transfer case is in neutral when flat towing! Unless the transfer case input is turning, the t/case is not getting lubrication.

[knightgambit]

If I were to sit in the Jeep while it was being towed, I am predicting that it really isn't turning left when you turn right - only failing to turn right when you turn right and so it wants to turn left all the time.

I doubt that you have any frame damage that could affect the trueness, so he only things the come to mind are - front end alignment, a dragging brake on the left side, or something else that could be constricting the steering column itself... someone mentioned tire pressure, which is very possible as well.

[BlueFlame]

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford

What? Who told you the driveshafts are connected together when the t-case is in neutral? That would be like towing in 4Hi which would cause binding since the front wheels must rotate faster than the rear wheels on even the gentlest of curved roads, let alone during a turn. Personally, I would find it VERY hard to believe the f/r driveshafts are connected together when it's in neutral. The factory service manual makes no mention of that either.

Not to mention that is contrary to Jeep's official instructions to place the t-case in neutral and transmission in gear or Park. Per Jeep, that is to prevent the tranny from possibly burning up from lack of lubrication while towing.

Okay, I'll come clean, I have never actually checked my jeep.
BUt that is the case with every other 4wd part time system I've even owned or had anything to do with (21 years in the RV business.) When you go from 2hi to 4hi, the front and rear output shafts connect. Then going to neutral disconnects the input shaft, but does nothing to the 2 locked outputs. Looking at the pattern of the tcase shifter I have no reason to assume the 231 is any different. We've been towing 'brand T's" in 2hi with (manual) trannies in neutral for years with no tranny issues at all, even though that isn't what the mfr recommends. (I do however, recommend following your manufacturers suggestions for towing.)

[olonam1016]

I would check the tow bar is not binding. If it's binding when you turn left it will push the the jeep to the right. Check the tow bar if its' s all aligned or the adjustable is locked in placed.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by BlueFlame

Okay, I'll come clean, I have never actually checked my jeep.
BUt that is the case with every other 4wd part time system I've even owned or had anything to do with (21 years in the RV business.) When you go from 2hi to 4hi, the front and rear output shafts connect. Then going to neutral disconnects the input shaft, but does nothing to the 2 locked outputs. Looking at the pattern of the tcase shifter I have no reason to assume the 231 is any different. We've been towing 'brand T's" in 2hi with (manual) trannies in neutral for years with no tranny issues at all, even though that isn't what the mfr recommends. (I do however, recommend following your manufacturers suggestions for towing.)

I just went and checked a complete working 231 I have in the garage. In neutral, all 3 shafts are disconnected.

All can be turned independantly without turning the others. You can even spin them in different directions with zero resistance.

[duke04]

I would have to wonder how far apart the legs of the towbar are, I'm thinking the wider the better. Also I would level the towbar if for no other reason than during hard stops the Jeep will either dive under the towbar or jump over it, depending on the position of the bar,

[jeeplj]

Originally Posted by knightgambit

If I were to sit in the Jeep while it was being towed, I am predicting that it really isn't turning left when you turn right - only failing to turn right when you turn right and so it wants to turn left all the time.

I doubt that you have any frame damage that could affect the trueness, so he only things the come to mind are - front end alignment, a dragging brake on the left side, or something else that could be constricting the steering column itself... someone mentioned tire pressure, which is very possible as well.

It is definitely turning left. The wheels turn all the way to the left and lock. I have to get out of the tow vehicle, run back to the Jeep and straighten them out.

I have resolved myself to the fact that 6" of lift has altered the geometry enough to cause this problem. I have felt all along that there is a problem with the caster. But after taking it in for an alignment, you would assume that the caster is OK. Apparently not. If I am reading the printout from the shop correctly, it states that the caster should be between 6.0 and 8.0 degrees. Mine is -1.2 on the left and -1.0 on the right. Camber should be between -0.9 and 0.4. Mine is at -1.1 on both sides. The printout also talks about "cross caster" and "cross camber." I have no idea what that means but it shows that I am within the specified range. The steering wheel does return to center, but the sharper the turn, the less eager it is to re-center.

I did think of one other possibility: bumpsteer. I don't feel like there is any bumpsteer when I drive it but maybe there is and I have grown accustomed to it. The drag link is slightly flatter than the trackbar but they are very close to parallel.

Someone asked about how wide the towbar is spread. I don't know the exact measurement but it is mounted to the bottom of each framerail. And I'm not sure how it would be binding. It's mounted with pins at each frame rail. The arm on the driver's side is fixed and the passenger's side moves to allow for different mounting point widths. There is nothing adjustable. I'm sure there are better tow bars on the market but I don't see how this one would be causing this problem. And as I said earlier, I towed my previous 2 YJ's extensively with never a moment's trouble.

I really wanted to tow it to the Rubicon this year but I guess I'll be driving it again.