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Unread 12-10-2007, 10:47 AM   #46
ChadCielencki
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Man, I miss home...
New Braunfels/ San Marcos/Antonio/ Austin area...

NICE rig! I hope all your wheel issues get resolved quick...

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Unread 12-14-2007, 10:21 PM   #47
Tommy R
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Got my fifth valve stem from Trailready this week so I built my final wheel/tire combo. Went pretty smoothly. After giving it a garage "shoestring" alignment (it was WAY toed in) I took it for a test drive. I was hoping the toe was the cause of the DW and that the extra width/offset of the wheels accentuated it.

Nope. It still death wobbles like mad. At least now it doesn't seem to do it without some sort of provocation, but it's still way worse than it ever was before the bigger, heavier, wider wheels were installed.

Desparate, I ordered up a set of Centramatic wheel balancers. They came in today and I installed them. Well, I had to file the holes for the wheel studs 'cause they didn't quite fit. Anyway, I got them on and took it for a test drive. Fortunately, there's lots of construction going on outside my neighborhood so I could hit some bumps that are ideal for inducing DW. Sure enough, even at just ~37 mph it death wobbled.....on the first damn bump I hit.

Took it on a very brief stint to about 70 mph and while the wobble in the wheel didn't disappear it seemed that it was better than without the balancers.....but not by much.

I'm about fed up. I need to get it professionally aligned, but other than that, I'm out of ideas. The next step is to build the long arm suspension. Hopefully going to a radius arm setup will help out. Does anyone know if guys who go with long, radius arm setups have DW as badly after the mod?

Tommy
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Unread 12-16-2007, 11:53 PM   #48
mjstranz
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My RE kit has radius arms and the only time I had DW was when my front track bar came very loose...

Those rims you got were not designed for the street. Thats why they arent true, likely due to the manufacturing process...
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Unread 12-17-2007, 01:43 AM   #49
mikevsgeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjstranz
My RE kit has radius arms and the only time I had DW was when my front track bar came very loose...

Those rims you got were not designed for the street. Thats why they arent true, likely due to the manufacturing process...
I 2nd the tracebar issue, more than likely the cause as that is always what causes me to have death wobble, even without hitting a bump.

there are only a few DOT approved beadlocks on the market, a quick search on google tells me that the TR wheels are NOT, meaning they probably were not designed with road use in mind.. simply cant blame them for that
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Unread 12-17-2007, 06:08 AM   #50
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Balancing beads didn't work for me. I put them in 36" swampers, shook bad.
Took the beads out of the front and had them weight balanced. One tire took 19.5 oz. before 0-0 balance. It was obvious to me that 8-10 oz. of beads would not work on a wheel that needed 19.5 oz. of weights. Test drove, every thing was fine.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 06:54 AM   #51
Tommy R
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I appreciate the input, y'all. I researched a TON about beadlocks and have several friends who run them (TR and homemade versions) and they've very streetable. So I'm not going to say that this is the wheels' fault. FWIW, I expected a "less than ideal" ride and am willing to accept that. This is far, far from acceptable and I suspect the wheels aren't really the problem. They just made the problem visible. So I'm back to square one with my DW issue and will not give up until I get it resolved.

DRAGON, thanks for the info. I put in 10 oz. of Dynabeads into each tire. I've rotated them all around in every possible configuration to see if any one tire(s) is worse than others. I've not experienced anything different from doing so. So no one or two wheel/tire combos is worse than another.

So I installed those Centramatics and really didn't experience an improvement. Now I'm wondering if, like you said, it's just not enough and that I should get them balanced at a shop, too. The other thing I've wondered about is if the bag the beads are in have busted open or not. They say in the instructions to seal the bag (it's not 100% sealed anyway) and the beads will work themselves out. Maybe that hasn't happened to mine yet and I've got a big 10 oz. bean bag floating around in there?

I'm in the middle of moving from my house and buying another so any work on the Jeep will have to wait awhile, unfortunately.

Tommy
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Unread 12-17-2007, 07:06 AM   #52
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Big tires ( mudders ) are a problem to make. They take two halves and stick them together. Every tire will balance different.One of mine took 8.5 oz. the other took 19.5. I couldn't drive @45 without a desath grip on my wheel, took the beads out, let go of the wheel @ 70, no problem.
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Unread 12-23-2007, 10:30 PM   #53
Tommy R
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Well, I had no death wobble issues with my older set of wheels with these tires so I know the tires are capable of running 70+mph comfortably. HOWEVER, they were also balanced normally with lead weights. When I installed the beadlocks, I used dynabeads. When that didn't work, I added the Centramatics. They didn't help, either. Yesterday I found my track bar mount (chassis end) very loose so I torqued it down confident I resolved the problem. Nope. No improvement.

Now I'm beginning to suspect ball joints. I also plan on breaking the tires down again, vacuuming out all the dynabeads, and trying it like that. I'm suspecting that the dynabead bags didn't open up and that now I've just got essentially bean bags in my tires.

I've got two weeks to play around with it while I'm on holidya break. Hopefully I can get this resolved. I'm sick of driving my Civic everywhere!
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Unread 12-28-2007, 08:38 PM   #54
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I've got good news and bad news..... But first some history.

I had bad death wobble when I first bought the Jeep in April. It was in need of bushings, tires, and suspension work so the DW wasn't really a surprise. I replaced pretty much all the bushings up front of the Rubicon Express lift (using OEM rubber bushings). I also got it aligned. Turns out I only had 2 degrees of caster! What the *$%@??

I have adjustable uppers so I removed them to shorten them. They were bottomed out and couldn't get shorter. So I called RE and asked them about this. First of all, they suggested between 4 and 7 degrees of caster. Secondly, they said that the Rubicon models require longer uppers. So what they do is sell everyone the longer uppers and non-Rubicon owners can just cut some threads off in order to get the uppers short enough to get the caster into spec.

So that's what I did. I cut the uppers as short as I could and re-installed them. Well, for the most part my DW was pretty gone after all this work....and new tires.

Fast forward to today. I decided to get an alignment for the first time in awhile. Turns out my cutting and shortening of the uppers only netted me an additional degree so now I'm "up" to 3 degrees of caster. So I feel confident now in saying that the lack of caster is really the reason I'm getting DW, not because of the new wheels. That's the good news, i.e. I have a culprit for the DW.

I can't shorten the uppers any further, though. That's the bad news. What else can I do in the meantime until I have time to build my long arm suspension? I decided to remove a 1" spacer from my front coils in order to lower the suspension and likely get some caster back. Turns out it helped. The slight wobble I get is lessened and is now at a different speed. So at the very least, it made a difference. That's encouraging.

Now the Jeep is driveable, but isn't great. But it's good enough to wait another 2 weeks until I'm in the new house and can start fabbing up the suspension.
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Unread 12-28-2007, 09:26 PM   #55
Greg_Volkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy R
Got my fifth valve stem from Trailready this week so I built my final wheel/tire combo. Went pretty smoothly. After giving it a garage "shoestring" alignment (it was WAY toed in) I took it for a test drive. I was hoping the toe was the cause of the DW and that the extra width/offset of the wheels accentuated it.

Nope. It still death wobbles like mad. At least now it doesn't seem to do it without some sort of provocation, but it's still way worse than it ever was before the bigger, heavier, wider wheels were installed.

Desparate, I ordered up a set of Centramatic wheel balancers. They came in today and I installed them. Well, I had to file the holes for the wheel studs 'cause they didn't quite fit. Anyway, I got them on and took it for a test drive. Fortunately, there's lots of construction going on outside my neighborhood so I could hit some bumps that are ideal for inducing DW. Sure enough, even at just ~37 mph it death wobbled.....on the first damn bump I hit.

Took it on a very brief stint to about 70 mph and while the wobble in the wheel didn't disappear it seemed that it was better than without the balancers.....but not by much.

I'm about fed up. I need to get it professionally aligned, but other than that, I'm out of ideas. The next step is to build the long arm suspension. Hopefully going to a radius arm setup will help out. Does anyone know if guys who go with long, radius arm setups have DW as badly after the mod?

Tommy

Centramatics will only balance on the center of the wheel...most imbalance problems are side/side. They balance on the center line. I have champion beadlocks and the centramatics made the DW worse. I took them off and just balanced them normally and i deal with the little tiny bit of wobble I get now.
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Unread 12-28-2007, 10:06 PM   #56
Tommy R
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Thanks, Greg. I'll certainly try with and without the Centramatics to see what kind of difference there is. I've already decided I want to vacuum out the dynabeads.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 12:35 PM   #57
tamersinger
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at this point have you balanced the tires and wheels yet?....make sure you watch them like hawks when you do.....Id recommend going to a americas tire or a discount tire (used to work at one) you can try and get them road forced and see if one tire is out of round and they can also move the tires around on the wheel so you can counter act the heavy spot on a wheel and a heavy spot on the tire.....

most of my dw was cause the trackbar jam nut wasnt full tightened down...make sure you give it hell....

love the buildup and I saw your bronco on another website Im sure...
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Unread 12-30-2007, 09:25 PM   #58
Tommy R
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Well, I haven't gotten them balanced yet because I have the Dynabeads in there. I need to vacuum those out before paying to get them balanced....which I'll do soon.

I'll double check the track bar jam nut. Thanks for the thought.

Tommy
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Unread 01-14-2008, 09:25 AM   #59
Tommy R
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A bit of an update... I picked up some eccentric bolts for the front lower control arms. I maxed out the caster which according to the hash marks means I added 5 degrees. I should be near 8 degrees of caster, which may be too much when considering front driveline angle.

So it hasn't death wobbled since adding the caster. That's the good news. The bad news is it still has a noticeable vibration coming through the steering wheel, but unlike death wobble, it's not affected in the least by bumps in the road. I'm suspecting this vibration/wobble is a result of the driveline angle since my pinion is at such a steep angle. The vibes are most noticeable around 40 mph and again at 60 mph.

I let a friend drive it the other night. He's got a lifted CJ-7 on 35's. He said he felt the shimmy in the wheel, but thought it was minor and compared to his CJ it "drove like a dream." That was encouraging to hear. So I think the death wobble may finally be gone, but I'm still going to work to get rid of this shimmy. It may just need a true tire balance. It might be driveline angle. But at least it's driveable for now.

Tommy
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Unread 02-15-2008, 03:12 PM   #60
Tommy R
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I ordered some Rancho RS9000 shocks today. I also ordered some of these to help with my "Clayton-copy" long arm build:

http://www.4wdfactory.biz/osc2.2/pro...roducts_id=242
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