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Unread 07-20-2011, 09:52 PM   #376
TheSlowDown
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Originally Posted by chris142 View Post
I'm sure you know this but many parts are balanced by drilling holes in the heavy side, grinding material off etc. I'm sure that Ford knows how to balance a fan. I still see lots of Exploders running around town and none of the owners give a hoot about fan blades, pitch etc.

Let us assume that the 10 blade Ford fan with evenly spaced blades moves more air than a 5 blade fan with uevenly spaced blades does. The late model trucks that still use mechanical fans have gone to evenly spaced blades.

If say an Astro van can pull a boat across the desert with a 5/8 inch wide radiator core and an 11 blade plastic fan then our jeeps will be fine tooling around on trails with a 10 blade fan and a 1inch wide radiator core.

Yes you read that right! GM is cooling the 4.3L v6 with a 5/8 thick radiator!
Great if the fan works for its intended purpose. At least that one Ford Exploder owner was concerned enough about it to have a web page dedicated to it - it could be a fluke, I surely don't know.

But it was never intended for the Jeep Wrangler, nor was any plastic fan (not even the TSB solution that was thought up for overheating in the first place).

Will the plastic fan work? Short term the answer seems to be yes for some here so far. Long term? Who knows? Possible consequences? Maybe none, but who knows?

I'm sure most people don't care a lick about their plastic radiator fans until they explode and post it all over the internet (reference previous posts). I couldn't find the same about metal radiator fans (not even a single case for a modern vehicle) - which is why I asked you directly if you had seen it.

You can't just assume that one fan will move more air than the other. There are other design and operational consideration such as noise, fuel economy, differences in air mass in response to temperature (both from the vehicle and from the environment), et cetera. Seems like you may have seem some positive changes with the plastic setup. Fantastic!

For the Astro van to Jeep Wrangler TJ comparison it surely can't be such an easy comparison though can it? Unless you tell me that all of the other variables are the same which I wouldn't think they are.

System specific: Fan shroud, fan shroud coverage, blade width, blade length, blade pitch(variable or not), thermometer, thermometer housing (flow?), water pump flow, water pump design(maybe they have the same water pump?), transmission, radiator details (how many cores, what type of materials, what type of coolant maybe), different engine (materials, compression, programming...)

Usage specific: shock forces exerted (rocking, sudden falls/slips, banging into unmovable objects/different suspension/different tires), engine use/abuse, environment (water crossing/dust/mud/rocks/sand).

Not trying to detract from your hard work. You found something that helped you out and want to share with others. I admire this.

But please consider the whole picture (for example: how would you feel if someone went to a junk yard and got a used plastic radiator fan that explodes on them because they read on here that you picked one up for cheap from a junk yard and it works?).

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Unread 07-20-2011, 10:17 PM   #377
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from the same company that used a breakage prone D35c in multiple models for 18+ years?
You know I ain't gonna let that one slide by. In stock form in the stock vehicle there is hardly a more successful product in the Jeep line-up.

Like everything else we upgrade when necessary, the 35 gets a bad rap that is wholly does not deserve and I dare you personally to develop anything in your lifetime with the success rate of the D-35.

If I ever do, I'll go to my grave an incredibly grateful individual for that gift of creativity.
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Unread 07-20-2011, 10:22 PM   #378
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In my first thread Im posted prices for new fans. I got a JY one for my testing purposes with plans to replace it if it infact worked. I actully got a few different fans and clutches from the JY to try out.

"A new fan is $85 from Ford. They will ask you if you want a 10 or 9 blade fan.

ORiley gets $65 for a new Hayden fan clutch.

The auto parts stores do sell a new 9 blade fan for the Explorer for about $35. It is supposed to replace the 10 blade fan. I'm betting that the 9 blade fan is still an ugrade over the Jeep 5 blade fan."

I have not tried the aftermarket fan and so far there are mixed feelings about the 9 blade fan. I know that the Ford 10 blade fan works in my application.
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Unread 07-20-2011, 10:33 PM   #379
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I dare you personally to develop anything in your lifetime with the success rate of the D-35.
workin' on it....
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Unread 07-20-2011, 10:39 PM   #380
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workin' on it....
Which means you understand the challenge then.
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Unread 07-20-2011, 10:45 PM   #381
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Which means you understand the challenge then.
I absolutely do

I always remind myself & fellow colleagues: There is no perfect design - everything can be improved.
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Unread 07-21-2011, 04:46 AM   #382
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Sorry, not sure if anyone has asked if everyone has all the air seals in place around the a/c condenser/radiator? I noticed with a couple of condensers most did not come with the foam one that goes right on top to plug the long gap between the radiator and condenser. Just checking.
THIS is a good question! I have even a small gap 2-3 mm between shroud and upper radiator edge. When I did my MML in march maybe a dry rotted strip of foam rubber was ignored by me ?
FIRST thing I will do is to seal/reseal my fan shroud where it is sitting against the rad! I can imagine that to much air is NOT pulled through the rad

I think my idling/slow crawling problems (no overheat ... but slight increase to 215-220 according to the crappy dash temp gauge) started right after my MML ... I was even thinking that the slight change in angle could be a reason... but now I think you got the right hint

The thing is : there was a time everything was perfect. The 5 Blade fan was OK. Only 3 months ago I seem to have slightly less efficient cooling. Checking the clutch and the waterpump are on the plan as well besides the sealing stuff. My 06 TJ has 60K km's on the clock...
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Unread 07-21-2011, 07:02 AM   #383
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Here is my 2 cents worth, first off I do not have a cooling problem, never did, runs at 208~210 all the time. But I wanted to try this mod to help the AC efficiency, which it did to a small extent. But for me the noise and drag on the motor wasnít worth. I took the JEEP into some JEEP only mechanics to have my AC checked and they have never seen this mod done and they were all impressed with the amount of air it was moving and said it will help with engine cooling even at idle. I think CHRIS still came up with a good modification for those who have cooling problems and that was all. Good going CHRIS.
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Unread 07-21-2011, 08:35 AM   #384
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I absolutely do

I always remind myself & fellow colleagues: There is no perfect design - everything can be improved.
that's the engineer's motto! good one to live by
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Unread 07-21-2011, 09:00 AM   #385
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Here is my 2 cents worth, first off I do not have a cooling problem, never did, runs at 208~210 all the time. But I wanted to try this mod to help the AC efficiency, which it did to a small extent. But for me the noise and drag on the motor wasnít worth. I took the JEEP into some JEEP only mechanics to have my AC checked and they have never seen this mod done and they were all impressed with the amount of air it was moving and said it will help with engine cooling even at idle. I think CHRIS still came up with a good modification for those who have cooling problems and that was all. Good going CHRIS.
Glad it's working for you. My Jeep only from a Jeep dealership mechanics couldn't even properly change a light bulb (literally) or install wheels & tires without issue. I wouldn't trust them to change anything unless it was covered by warranty and didn't cost me anything... Jeep service writers however are by far much worse than the actual mechanics. Inflated prices are the norm at dealerships, but some of the quotes I've received have been absolutely ludicrous.

My experience has been less than stellar at 4 different Jeep dealerships in 3 different states... Some things they got right without a hitch some... not so much. Example: $192 to replace a burnt out LED in the dash (before I knew better) & then they put the completely wrong color LED in. Then when I brought it back they took the wrong color LED out and gave it to me with another LED burned out.

Another time I bought new wheels and tires directly from the dealership ($$$ mistake there). OEM wheels & accompanying tires. They installed them but didn't check the balance of the tires on the wheels. I had a brand new stock Jeep which was handling just fine before the wheels and tires that was now shaking & pulling hard to the left.

I actually had to argue with them to balance the tires & wheels (they wanted to charge me extra for that after I had already bought the tire & wheel "upgrade" package from them).

Another time I had my gas tank replaced under warranty. There was a long delay (they claimed they forgot to order some necessary plastic tubing they needed to finish the job) although they had weeks to order the necessary parts before I brought it to the dealership.

Then they give me a call and say my 4x4 is not engaging properly or something's wrong with the switch & they want to replace a few things here and there. I say NO and they say ok. Found it REALLY strange that they would have to engage 4x4 mode to replace my gas tank. Then they fixed it without my permission and forgot to charge me for it.
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Unread 07-21-2011, 09:10 AM   #386
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Glad it's working for you. My Jeep only from a Jeep dealership mechanics couldn't even properly change a light bulb (literally) or install wheels & tires without issue. I wouldn't trust them to change anything unless it was covered by warranty and didn't cost me anything... Jeep service writers however are by far much worse than the actual mechanics. Inflated prices are the norm at dealerships, but some of the quotes I've received have been absolutely ludicrous.

My experience has been less than stellar at 4 different Jeep dealerships in 3 different states... Some things they got right without a hitch some... not so much. Example: $192 to replace a burnt out LED in the dash (before I knew better) & then they put the completely wrong color LED in. Then when I brought it back they took the wrong color LED out and gave it to me with another LED burned out.

Another time I bought new wheels and tires directly from the dealership ($$$ mistake there). OEM wheels & accompanying tires. They installed them but didn't check the balance of the tires on the wheels. I had a brand new stock Jeep which was handling just fine before the wheels and tires that was now shaking & pulling hard to the left.

I actually had to argue with them to balance the tires & wheels (they wanted to charge me extra for that after I had already bought the tire & wheel "upgrade" package from them).

Another time I had my gas tank replaced under warranty. There was a long delay (they claimed they forgot to order some necessary plastic tubing they needed to finish the job) although they had weeks to order the necessary parts before I brought it to the dealership.

Then they give me a call and say my 4x4 is not engaging properly or something's wrong with the switch & they want to replace a few things here and there. I say NO and they say ok. Found it REALLY strange that they would have to engage 4x4 mode to replace my gas tank. Then they fixed it without my permission and forgot to charge me for it.

It didn't, that's why I went back to the stock 5 blade setup. Also, I never go to the stealership, they are idiots who only want your money. I just went to a place that works only on JEEPS to get the AC checked out. Other than that I do all my own work on all of my JEEPS.
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Unread 07-21-2011, 09:25 AM   #387
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It didn't, that's why I went back to the stock 5 blade setup. Also, I never go to the stealership, they are idiots who only want your money. I just went to a place that works only on JEEPS to get the AC checked out. Other than that I do all my own work on all of my JEEPS.
Ah, totally missed that you went back to stock 5 blade. Sounds like I'm not the only one that's had a bad experience at the stealership.
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Unread 07-21-2011, 01:12 PM   #388
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Has anyone tried a electric pusher fan in front of radiator, most newer trucks have one, my 09 Nissan Frontier and my 02 Fleetwood motorhome has one, was installed by manufacturer and turns on when running a/c, sure keeps the temp down during the summer months, would this not be a better idea and keep the stock fan and clutch..
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Unread 07-21-2011, 02:34 PM   #389
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Has anyone tried a electric pusher fan in front of radiator, most newer trucks have one, my 09 Nissan Frontier and my 02 Fleetwood motorhome has one, was installed by manufacturer and turns on when running a/c, sure keeps the temp down during the summer months, would this not be a better idea and keep the stock fan and clutch..
The biggest improvements that will make your a/c system more efficient is to insulate your top and tint your windows.

The less heat that you're trying to remove from the interior is that much less heat that you're dumping out in front of your radiator.

Many people insulate their tops here in Phoenix and report great results in their a/c performance.

People with soft tops just use rigid wall foam insulation stuffed between their roll bar and top. Guys with hard tops do a variety of different things to get better sound proofing and insulation.

And here's a profssional solution with some data about the subject.

http://www.insul-liner.com/
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Unread 07-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #390
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The biggest improvements that will make your a/c system more efficient is to insulate your top and tint your windows.

The less heat that you're trying to remove from the interior is that much less heat that you're dumping out in front of your radiator.

Many people insulate their tops here in Phoenix and report great results in their a/c performance.

People with soft tops just use rigid wall foam insulation stuffed between their roll bar and top. Guys with hard tops do a variety of different things to get better sound proofing and insulation.

And here's a profssional solution with some data about the subject.

http://www.insul-liner.com/
Now see there you go. Too bad itís for hard tops. I tried the fan mod to help the AC system which it did not. Even though after adding some refrigerant to the system cause it was a bit low and now blows 37degree air out. The inside of the cab just will not cool down. I do have a soft top and that is the problem. There is just no way the factory AC can cool down all of the radiant heat that is trapped inside. Wish there were some thing that looked good and worked to insulate the top.
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