TJ radiator fan upgrade info.......2000-2006 TJ - Page 24 - JeepForum.com
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post #346 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 06:15 AM
Unlimited04
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Originally Posted by sduncan View Post
the bad zone. Would an oil cooler help in his case in keeping temps down? He seems to have the hottest running TJ I've heard of (although my dad's runs too warm for me, very similiar to Unlimited04s)that doesn't have some mechanical issue. Just thinking out loud again.........
just to be clear, mine doesn't run 230-240 cause I don't let it get there. With A/C off the motor stays between 200-210 with swiss watch precision. Under heavy load circumstances, I turn the heater on, pull over, slow down or something to prevent high temps from happening. With the stock fan & clutch, as long as I was not running A/C idling through heavy traffic the cooling was never an issue. I'm seeing the same issue with the Hayden 2793 + Explorer fan. The Torqflo 2791 was the only thing that kept up with A/C at idle over the long term, but I think that thing was defective & fully engaged all the time.



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post #347 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 01:44 PM
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Looks like if everyone would just go back and read the original post, they might have the fix they need. Everyone keeps changing the original information up trying to make something else work! 2002 TJ Wrangler had it all figured out in the beginning!

Bone stock and starting from scratch... AGAIN!
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post #348 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 01:57 PM
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I like what I read on here about the explorer fans, but my experience is the same as yours unlimited ... Ive tried aftermarket fan clutches and they either dont work or they work because they are defective and engaged all the time.

Bottom line is only oem fan clutch will offer good cooling while keeping noise levels and roaring down.

So, i wonder has anyone tried the explorer fan with a NEW oem ford fan clutch? That would be interesting to see.

I have no problem with overheating really, but the old (97) tj will hit 215* or so on a long hill climb with a good amount of throttle applied. Wouldnt mind keeping it to 210 constant like it was a few yrs ago ... I think the radiator barn rad I got was the worst "upgrade" ever. It never cooled as well as the stock one, and its getting worse with age.

I should have replaced the leaky oem rad wirh another oem one ...
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post #349 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeepTJ View Post
Looks like if everyone would just go back and read the original post, they might have the fix they need. Everyone keeps changing the original information up trying to make something else work! 2002 TJ Wrangler had it all figured out in the beginning!
DISCLAIMER: I am considering manufacturing the original OEM TSB 7 Blade fan. I've confirmed that there is an aftermarket severe duty clutch that works well with it. Although I also have some of the original OEM TSB fan clutches in my possession to offer as well. Just so as I'm not misleading anyone here I AM biased. I don't like plastic radiator fans especially in a a vehicle that might be going offroad & I might be financially linked to an alternate solution.

The information hasn't been changed. Different combinations have been/are being tried & different solutions contemplated.

There's nothing special about the the 2002 TJ versus the 2000 - 2006.

Going plastic is bad enough; going used plastic from a junkyard is a disaster waiting to happen. See my post on Page 23 - pay attention to the Jaguar forum guy who bought used.

Take it a step further, I doubt there are more than a handful of manufacturers in this space. Some may be better than others, some specs may be better than others, some plastics may be stronger, some may be thicker, I'd guess 99.9% of them were not designed with offroading in mind. So when looking at a replacement I'd say it's a crap shoot.

If you look back you will see this Ford Exploder solution is a response to mild/moderate/severe overheating/cheap insurance/replacing worn out parts.

New fan and fan clutch is one solution of many possible available. Maybe some people need all or a few or just one: new fan clutch alone, new radiator, radiator flush, new belt, new thermometers/thermometer housing, new water pump, calibrated cooling liquid mix (nice application of refractometer), et cetera.

Is this Ford Exploder plastic fan solution the best? I don't think so. Will it work? Depends on what the root cause of the cooling 'problem' is.

If I can offer the original 7 blade solution that Jeep came up with for $70 or less ($68 for one of the plastic replacement fans right?) would you not think that a good alternate offering?
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post #350 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 02:32 PM
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You can't see the forest for the trees. Typical of a engineer/manufacturer. I'd prefer metal over plastic, especially in a water crossing, but for those having trouble moving enough air, the first post gives a solution. NO ONE WANTS a used plastic fan. But if the setup first given is duplicated with a new 10 blade fan, with the proper new clutch, from the appropriate listed vehicle it works! The guy who started the original thread says he has a little experience, so stop looking to fatten your wallet. Yes I'd like to have the appropriate 7 blade jeep fan and clutch. If I had the original part numbers, I might be able to find an aftermarket cross that is still available. I do it all the time!

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post #351 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GeepTJ View Post
You can't see the forest for the trees. Typical of a engineer/manufacturer. I'd prefer metal over plastic, especially in a water crossing, but for those having trouble moving enough air, the first post gives a solution. NO ONE WANTS a used plastic fan. But if the setup first given is duplicated with a new 10 blade fan, with the proper new clutch, from the appropriate listed vehicle it works! The guy who started the original thread says he has a little experience, so stop looking to fatten your wallet. Yes I'd like to have the appropriate 7 blade jeep fan and clutch. If I had the original part numbers, I might be able to find an aftermarket cross that is still available. I do it all the time!
I'm not an engineer or a manufacturer. I just love Jeeps & I drive a Jeep. This forum has helped me prevent many mistakes. Thought it was time I try to help out as well... My family is full of engineers and they manufacture all sorts of precision parts. I want a 7 blade fan myself. So my thought was: I can't find it. Wonder if its feasible to MAKE IT for myself.

The guy who originally started this thread... didn't come up with this on his own, and completely ignored the other guy who he was collaborating with (NOT ME). Not wise to talk when you don't know the full background...

People have been looking for the 7 blade TSB OEM fan for YEARS. I'd be surprised if you could fine a genuine brand new TSB OEM fan... if so, I'd buy it from you for $75 and shut the hell up. If no one wants the original Jeep TSB solution for a fair price I will exit stage left.

As I said, there are numerous other solutions. Even just an appropriately matched fan clutch to the STOCK 5 blade fan can improve the cooling efficiency - especially if it is old. A fan clutch can work under SPEC even without showing obvious signs (via hand rotation test and similar).

About fattening my wallet... everyone tries this yes? This is America?

I probably need to make anywhere between 50 & 200 of these fans JUST TO BREAK EVEN. Primarily because of shipping & customs. If I can sell 200 - 250 I'm happy. If it turns into something more - even better. What is the harm in this??? I'm not talking inflated prices. I'm talking the same prices you can find the off-application plastic fan for the Ford F'ing Exploder. Oh yeah, without all the possible worries of using an off-application fan such as resistance to shock, bad/worn out plastic mold, durability, debris impact resistance, etc.

If you have any sense of what it takes to make a precision part, you would know that scale is vital to keeping costs down. Making a few hundred of such an inexpensive item will yield almost no profit (which is why no other manufacturer would probably even TRY to reproduce the TSB fan - the numbers just aren't high enough a profit).

It's just something that would be easy for me & my family to do. I have prior import experience into the US through another business venture of mine & my family can do the manufacturing with their eyes closed. Simple equation.

I don't get your attitude.

Lastly, I think you're dead wrong about plastic fans... If I could find a proven high-grade plastic fan which can deal with the same abuse as well as a metal fan (if not better), tied to a good electronic controller (ala DC Control - they Rock! But are waaaay to expensive) I would not hesitate for a nanosecond to disconnect the metal radiator fan from the water pump.

In fact there are some on this very forum that have switched to plastic + electric so they can turn the fan off in water crossings/try to free up some horsepower/try to get better cooling/try to free up space in he engine bay/et cetera - all to varying degrees of success.
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post #352 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 03:37 PM
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Well if you do this count me in for 2 of them. Even though I have swapped the Explorer fan onto both my 98 and my dad's 03 I would not hesitate to have a spare 7 blade or two sitting on the shelf. Please let us know if/when you get this in production.

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post #353 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 04:03 PM
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I'm very happy with the OP's mod and I stand behind his test 100% after testing it out on my 05 Jeep Wrangler. Anyone that spends $8.00 for an 18 year old junk yard fan is just asking for trouble. The blades could be cracked, the fan itself could be bent from being in a accident! A brand new replacement 9 blade fan is $26.00 and it only makes sense to get a new one.

A new 7 blade fan and OEM TSB fan clutch would be nice, but this mod works and it's way cheaper. All the Land Rover's I owned had plastic fan blades and not a one of them ever failed. I'm not saying they don't fail (anything can fail), but I'm saying out of 6 Land Rover's from 94-03 not a one ever failed on me from my experience.

If the fan blade fails or the water pump fails (sending the fan flying free under the hood) I'd rather have a plastic one under the hood vs a metal one because I'm pretty sure a metal one would do a lot more damage vs a plastic one.

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post #354 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post

There's nothing special about the the 2002 TJ versus the 2000 - 2006.
This is not a true statement with regard to the TSB that calls for the 7-blade fan as a solution.

If you read the TSB it states specific conditions that the dealer should use in order to diagnose an extended idle overheatig problem. One of the conditions is the 32RH (3spd) Automatic transmission. The other condition is to place the transmission into park or neutral and see if the temperature drops. If it does, then put the bigger fan and clutch on.

It also states that if the vehicle is driven, and the temperature decreses, then put the bigger fan and clutch on.

The TSB and bigger fan/clutch was never intended to fix any other overheating problems except "High Engine Temperatures Due To Extended In-Gear Idling In Hot Ambient Temperatures"

In 2003 the 32RH was no longer offered and was replaced by the 42RLE (4spd) automatic transmission. A superceding TSB has never been released to include the 42RLE.

This would lead one to believe that the DC engineers felt the cause/solution for the existing TSB was not pertinent to the 42RLE transmission equiped Wranglers. The TSB never applied to Wranglers with a manual transmission and only applied to 2000-2001 model years with a certain PCM calibration software version.
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post #355 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ftgiles View Post
This is not a true statement with regard to the TSB that calls for the 7-blade fan as a solution.

If you read the TSB it states specific conditions that the dealer should use in order to diagnose an extended idle overheatig problem. One of the conditions is the 32RH (3spd) Automatic transmission. The other condition is to place the transmission into park or neutral and see if the temperature drops. If it does, then put the bigger fan and clutch on.

It also states that if the vehicle is driven, and the temperature decreses, then put the bigger fan and clutch on.

The TSB and bigger fan/clutch was never intended to fix any other overheating problems except "High Engine Temperatures Due To Extended In-Gear Idling In Hot Ambient Temperatures"

In 2003 the 32RH was no longer offered and was replaced by the 42RLE (4spd) automatic transmission. A superceding TSB has never been released to include the 42RLE.

This would lead one to believe that the DC engineers felt the cause/solution for the existing TSB was not pertinent to the 42RLE transmission equiped Wranglers. The TSB never applied to Wranglers with a manual transmission and only applied to 2000-2001 model years with a certain PCM calibration software version.
The only thing you've overlooked in all this is that a few folks like myself have successfully used the 7 blade fan and clutch to fix problem rigs with an overheating issue. It's also very likely that I bought the last 7 blade in existence just for that very reason.

I installed it on a TJ with a 5.9 Magnum out of a Durango and it had some pretty extensive performance mods done to it. Until I got ahold of it, it had never not run too hot and now that a few years have passed, the exact opposite is true.

I also wouldn't be involved if I thought it was not a great idea.

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post #356 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ftgiles View Post
This is not a true statement with regard to the TSB that calls for the 7-blade fan as a solution.

If you read the TSB it states specific conditions that the dealer should use in order to diagnose an extended idle overheatig problem. One of the conditions is the 32RH (3spd) Automatic transmission. The other condition is to place the transmission into park or neutral and see if the temperature drops. If it does, then put the bigger fan and clutch on.

It also states that if the vehicle is driven, and the temperature decreses, then put the bigger fan and clutch on.

The TSB and bigger fan/clutch was never intended to fix any other overheating problems except "High Engine Temperatures Due To Extended In-Gear Idling In Hot Ambient Temperatures"

In 2003 the 32RH was no longer offered and was replaced by the 42RLE (4spd) automatic transmission. A superceding TSB has never been released to include the 42RLE.

This would lead one to believe that the DC engineers felt the cause/solution for the existing TSB was not pertinent to the 42RLE transmission equiped Wranglers and never applied to Wranglers with a manual transmission.
Speculation at best... Sound logical but doesn't mean the solution can't help others - in fact the 7 blade + fan clutch TSB has helped many many people already...

Many other people looking for answers (including the commenter below w/ a 2005 TJ) have found it with a replacement or at least are looking for some solution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Best4x4 View Post
I'm very happy with the OP's mod and I stand behind his test 100% after testing it out on my 05 Jeep Wrangler. Anyone that spends $8.00 for an 18 year old junk yard fan is just asking for trouble. The blades could be cracked, the fan itself could be bent from being in a accident! A brand new replacement 9 blade fan is $26.00 and it only makes sense to get a new one.

A new 7 blade fan and OEM TSB fan clutch would be nice, but this mod works and it's way cheaper. All the Land Rover's I owned had plastic fan blades and not a one of them ever failed. I'm not saying they don't fail (anything can fail), but I'm saying out of 6 Land Rover's from 94-03 not a one ever failed on me from my experience.

If the fan blade fails or the water pump fails (sending the fan flying free under the hood) I'd rather have a plastic one under the hood vs a metal one because I'm pretty sure a metal one would do a lot more damage vs a plastic one.
No offense intended, if it works it works (at least short term) but... If you had 6 different Land Rovers in 10 years or less I don't think there should have been enough time for anything to fail? Having a car for a little over a year and a half (assuming not having more than 1 at a time) I would hope nothing would go wrong in such a short time... unless it was not in good condition to start with or missed some major maintenance.

Also, as I said, I have no idea what spec these plastic fan blades are being made to, maybe Land Rover paid a few more beans and got some better fans, who knows. Wouldn't count on it for the Ford Exploder though.

As to the water pump SHAFT failing or the connection point failing (if the water pump fails as in the usual sense of the word you just overheat right?):

Show me a single vehicle manufactured in the last 20 years where the water pump let the full metal radiator fan loose or an all metal radiator fan broke apart vs. all the examples of plastic radiator fans breaking that I showed you.

More plastic radiator fan failure examples here:

Ford EXPLODER Fan Problem:
http://www.explorerforum.com/Singlet...pages/fan.html

BMW
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=781493

Offroad
http://forums.off-road.com/jeep-shor...-radiator.html

Dodge Charger SRT8
http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/...d.php?t=102941

Mitsubishi Lancer Evo
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...-exploded.html

You're talking some utterly infinitesimal odds here re: all metal radiator fan. If something like that were to happen I'm guessing the entire car got flung off a couple hundred foot drop at the same time.
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post #357 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 04:54 PM
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Many TSB's are not updated from the year they are issued...
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post #358 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 05:14 PM
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I am in no way saying the 7-blade fan doesn't work.

Just trying to put all the information out there. There are a lot of people that might read this thread and think the TSB might apply to their problems when it wasn't intended to.

I have the TSB 7-blade fan & clutch. Lots of people in Phoenix do. I got it in 2005 and use to take it off after summer was over because it was noisy. I also have not put it back on in a number of years.
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post #359 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ftgiles View Post
I am in no way saying the 7-blade fan doesn't work.

Just trying to put all the information out there. There are a lot of people that might read this thread and think the TSB might apply to their problems when it wasn't intended to.

I have the TSB 7-blade fan & clutch. Lots of people in Phoenix do. I got it in 2005 and use to take it off after summer was over because it was noisy. I also have not put it back on in a number of years.
Dude! I'll buy your TSB 7-blade if you don't want it... PM if you're interested in selling it.
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post #360 of 659 Old 07-20-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Knuckelhead View Post
Many TSB's are not updated from the year they are issued...
Why do you think that is?

Maybe, just maybe they fix the problems before they send more vehicles out with the same problems making the TSB not apply and thereby reducing their warranty costs. Maybe?
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