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Unread 09-01-2009, 06:04 PM   #361
CCJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep2008 View Post
Aren't these RE1380 - BUMPSTOPS 2" FRONT LOWER - Rubicon Express a better solution than these RE1395 - BUMP STOPS 2+ TJ UPPER FRNT/RE - Rubicon Express which give by the way only 1.5'' final bump stop?
Yeap, you are correct as taken from the site
"Extended bump stops fits inside front coil to provide 2"-3” of extra limitation for larger tires." I think you'll be happy with those. Unless you can afford some King air bump stops.




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Unread 09-02-2009, 01:32 AM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCJ View Post
I think Mud8 will recommend the RE 2" bumpstop extenders. They extend the stock bumpstops 2"
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep2008 View Post
Aren't these RE1380 - BUMPSTOPS 2" FRONT LOWER - Rubicon Express a better solution than these RE1395 - BUMP STOPS 2+ TJ UPPER FRNT/RE - Rubicon Express which give by the way only 1.5'' final bump stop?

exactly right.. or you can use some JKS stackable/adjustable bumpstops... which is what I put in cb3's LJ since the fabrication cost is a bit much to build a track bar and mount to fit his rig to also gain high steer without other issues...
the hard polly bumpstop extensions are a joke IMO.. they could be used in the rear though.

a Barnett cover is on the way, prolly friday, then it's headed out for the powder coating, for the time being I put a stock cover on it and the new currie track bar.

I was really tempted to cut the end of the currie off and fix it to clear the stock cover on stock bumpstops.

I'll get the pics up prolly tomorrow of the issues with the riddler, crane and stock covers I ran into... didn't forget the camera, just a little bushed from some long hours lately.
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Unread 09-02-2009, 01:37 AM   #363
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Yeap, you are correct as taken from the site
"Extended bump stops fits inside front coil to provide 2"-3” of extra limitation for larger tires." I think you'll be happy with those. Unless you can afford some King air bump stops.


I like the idea, but we're getting into 4+" lift and the price is...... well you decide if it's all worth it when yer messing with less than 5.5" of uptravel.


JKS Manufacturing: Coil Spring Suspension
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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 09-02-2009, 08:45 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by mudb8 View Post
I like the idea, but we're getting into 4+" lift and the price is...... well you decide if it's all worth it when yer messing with less than 5.5" of uptravel.


JKS Manufacturing: Coil Spring Suspension
so true
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Unread 09-02-2009, 11:05 PM   #365
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the covers...

stock, riddler, and crane..

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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 09-02-2009, 11:10 PM   #366
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bumpstop extensions belong on the axle pad... like these stackable JKS bumpstops. on the rubicons, I drill and tap the pad since a self tapper will self destruct before it starts...

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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 09-02-2009, 11:24 PM   #367
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the stock track bar...

stock cover, sitting on the stock stops.. yep, it clears!




stock track bar and the Crane... I didn't even bother putting the riddler back on after this one..




Crane cover, stock track bar with 2" bumpstops.. that's close!

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I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 09-02-2009, 11:53 PM   #368
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good info!!!
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Unread 09-03-2009, 12:01 AM   #369
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Currie....

first off, there's very little clearance for the JJ and the axle with stock length lower control arms..



this is the Currie smakin the stock cover... notice the scrape mark, it does drop to the amount a 1.25" bumptop will stop the uptravel but is being flexed pretty good. the Currie bar needs 2" bumpstops to clear.





Currie vs. crane...




the crane could prolly survive with 2.75" bumstops extensions but is to close for comfort.

Currie vs, riddler...






ya... that's 3" for the riddler cover touching the Currie track bar..




bottom line is 2" bumpstop extensions work for the stock cover and the Currie track bar.

3" at least, for both the crane and riddler covers, which could work with a 5.5" lift due to the shock length.

anyone see the reason I'm also saying the high steer is out the window also from looking at the pics?
the tie rod can't pass by the track bar without binding on it..

I'm running a nth degree track bar system, and have WJ grand cherokee flipped steering links... they pass by one another but are very close.

rubirock has a small JJ type bds track bar and high steer, i'm curious now if it can scrub or hit hard, he's also running a crusher? cover and I know it has 2" bumpstops.. I'll see If I can talk him into letting me pull the front springs just for kicks and concrete info...
__________________
I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




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Unread 09-11-2009, 09:10 AM   #370
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Had a thought: have you tried a Ruff Stuff diff cover? or similar fabricated steel cover?


stole from this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/na...-cover-855273/

Last edited by Unlimited04; 09-11-2009 at 09:26 AM..
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Unread 09-11-2009, 10:28 PM   #371
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Had a thought: have you tried a Ruff Stuff diff cover? or similar fabricated steel cover?


stole from this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/na...-cover-855273/

it would be worth the time to check but I think I have a pretty good eye for what will work after testing the ones I had, I'd say that would prolly hit the stock track bar without bumpstop extensions.
isn't that one of mrblaine's creations?
he also recomended the barnett cover.


cb3 picked up his jeep today and brought the new barnett cover.. it's slightly thicker and has some serious skid plate welded to the bottom, it's heavier than the riddler is, without actually putting it on a scale anyhow, I have to say it weights more.

I will, of course, post pics when it's coated and installed..

in the meantime, sunday, I'm looking to install Crane covers on my rubi.... then we'll see if Crane covers clear the nth degree track bar and brace.
__________________
I want your factory 07-up take-off/thrown out JK front/rear Lower Control Arms! Bent ones are perfect also as long as the bushings and cold cut rings are in good shape/useable


HighLine Hood Jeepers
TJ Adjustable Track bars
DIY highline fenders.... 34-37's under 0"-2.5" lifts
shock length, bumpstop extension, tire size chart click here
DIY shock shifters, more uptravel/better ride




2011 E-350 4x4 Van conversion

2006 Rubicon Unlimited

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Unread 09-12-2009, 06:12 PM   #372
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New Currie HD trackbar has some diff cover clearance problems, even with stock cover!

Here's my version of what Mud said (we both learned this on my Jeep).

I'm unhappy with the new Currie HD trackbar for the following reasons:

While I have OME HD front springs that are an honest 2.5" lift, I also have 1/2" and a 3/4" coil spacers (stacked). So my lift is really a 3.75" actual height lift that is sunk back down 1/2" due to the 75# weight on my front bumper (simulates a light rockcrawler winch + winchplate) so my actual lift height with the weight is now approx 3.25" lift.

Even with 2.5" lift and 2" bumpstop extension, the new Currie HD trackbar still sucks IMO for the following reasons:

1) It won't clear any aftermarket diff cover, except a Barnett cover that has same clearance on top half of cover as a stock cover. That isn't really a problem because the Barnett is a fantastic cover (with great clearance on top 2/3 of cover and great protection on bottom 1/3).

However, even with a Barnett (or stock) diff cover, the Currie trackbar doesn't have enough clearance to allow Mud to lengthen my JKS LCAs slightly to move my axle slightly forward of stock like it used to be back in the day.
By back in the day, I mean when I had 2.5" lift, stock UCAs, JKS LCAs lengthened enough to move front axle slightly forward of stock position and give me 7 degree castors with stock UCA, and a stock diff cover. My stock diff cover (same clearance as Barnett) easily cleared the stock trackbar, even with axle move slightly forward.
Now, with a stock diff cover again (installed by Mud, until we get a Barnett cover on there), the Currie trackbar wouldn't clear the stock cover if Mud moved my axle forward like I wanted it. So to get the Currie trackbar to clear the stock diff cover (or a Barnett), Mud had to keep my axle in approx stock location and install JKS UCA and shorten the UCA to shorter than stock to give me 7 degree castor.

i.e. - if I had my stock trackbar (with stock or Barnett diff cover), I could get my 7 degree castor by lengthening the JKS LCA longer than stock LCA, while having the UCA stock length. This would all clear great and drive great. I love having the front axle slightly forward of stock. I know this because this was my setup before I started buying various aftermarket diff covers and trackbars.

I curse the day I bought an aftermarket trackbar. They all suck for lifts under 4". The stock trackbar is THE BEST for lifts under 4" lift But now how can I go back to my stock trackbar when the JKS and Currie Trackbars that I tried both required drilling out my trackbar frame mount hole. Trying aftermarket trackbars has been a disaster! They don't have good clearance (not even the Currie) and installing them ruined my trackbar frame mount for ever using the stock trackbar again.

For up to a 2.5" lift: the stock trackbar in stock mounting locations is THE BEST. Best clearance, plenty strong, and centers axle plently good enough. For a 2.5" lift, leave your stock trackbar as is!!! It's better than any aftermarket trackbar!!!

That's ^^^ also the case for a 2.75" lift too. Mud said mine was only 3/8" offcenter with my 2.75" actual lift height and stock trackbar. That's close enough to use stock trackbar mounted to stock mounting points. Even with a true 3" lift, the stock trackbar mounted in stock mounting points would be only axle 1/2" offcenter, and therefore close enough.
(My lift height was 2.75" actual height when I brought it to Mud. He added a 1/2" spacer and it's now 3.25" actual. This after taking into account the 75# weight on my front bumper sinking springs down about 1/2").
For a 3.25" to 4" lift: the stock trackbar is still the best, but you will need to move the axle mount end to center the axle. I would NOT recommend moving the frame mount end because that might cause clearance issues with diff cover, or with steering linkage.

Aftermarket trackbars and aftermarket diff covers are ONLY best for high lifts. Meaning higher than 4". For a high lift, the Currie HD is the best.

One exception exists. The Barnett diff cover is awesome for any lift height, and also for stock height. I bought a Barnett (non installed yet), and it is very tough on the bottom 1/3" and very high clearance on the upper 2/3".

Last edited by CB3; 09-12-2009 at 06:23 PM..
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Unread 09-12-2009, 06:20 PM   #373
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New Currie HD trackbar has some bumpsteer...

Also, the Currie Trackbar has such a big joint on the frame mount end that the trackbar is slightly lowered at that end. This results in slight bumpsteer because the frame mount end of the trackbar is slightly lower than a stock trackbar.

This means the Currie trackbar is a bit to low on frame mount end to work ideally with the stock pitman arm. So mild bumpsteer results.

The Currie trackbar is not even close to lower enough to use with a drop pitman arm. If a drop pitman arm were used, major bumpsteer would result.

I'm speaking from experience here in both of the above bumpsteer problems explanations.

One solution would be to bend the pitman arm a little bit (heat and bend) so it's a little lower than stock. If the pitman arm were bent enough lower to match the Currie HD trackbar, then no more bumpsteer.

Another solution would be to have my frame mount for trackbar repaired (was drilled out larger to fit the JKS, and larger again when I tried Currie) to allow me to go back to using my stock trackbar. This would be a more expensive solution, but would give best results because then I'd have the clearance between the stock trackbar and Barnett cover to move my axle forward. Any guy who still has his stock trackbar installed can use this solution for free. i.e. - by staying with your stock trackbar you can avoid a lot of bumpsteer, diff cover clearance problems, and financial hurt. You can team up your stock trackbar with a Barnett diff cover and have a winning combination for $110.

In hindsight, I wish I'd staid with my stock trackbar. My axle wasn't even offcentered enough to worry about. However, if I wanted a perfectly centered axle and good diff cover clearance, I could have just relocated the axle mount end of my stock trackbar and then I'd have had it all: best clearance and best performance with a low lift, and it would have also been the cheapest route too.

For anyone with less than 4" lift, I implore you to NOT buy an aftermarket trackbar. Your stock trackbar is the best for a low lift. You don't need to alter anything related to trackbar for lifts up to 2.75". For 3.25" to 4" use the stock trackbar, and relocate the axle mount end to center axle. With a 3" lift, it's borderline if you need to relocate the framemount end, or not. There is no aftermarket trackbar that comes even close to being as good for a low lift 4" and less, as what the stock trackbar is. Trust me on this, I've learned this by painful and expensive experience.

Last edited by CB3; 09-12-2009 at 06:32 PM..
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Unread 09-12-2009, 06:49 PM   #374
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Currie steering

While I love the Currie HD tie rod I had installed, I'm not so keen on the Currie draglink.

Here's why: The stock draglink is plenty strong enough for any tires you'll be running with a low lift. So no need to spend the money on the Currie draglink.

Also, the stock draglink is a smaller diameter, which improves your clearance between draglink and trackbar. That is important, especially if using a stock trackbar.

The stock trackbar comes dangerously close to the fat Currie draglink. The stock draglink has better clearance and is plenty strong enough for 35" tires. Probably the stock draglink is even strong enough for 37" tires.

However, I do highly recommend the Currie tie rod. The stock tie rod is very weak. Not only is the Currie tie rod tougher for offroading, but I also think it prevents or reduces death wobble by taking the flex out of the tie rod.
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Unread 09-12-2009, 06:58 PM   #375
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Here is what I'd suggest for guys with a low lift...

Regarding your frontend: Use your stock trackbar and stock draglink, add a Currie tie rod and Barnett diff cover. Then your done, have a good setup that rides well on and off road, articulates well, and it won't doesn't cost much.

If you have the money, also add JKS LCA, or any other brand of shortarm LCA that is adjustable length, has some type waterproof/mudproof joint(s) to improve articulation, and good vibration damping rubber bushings. Leave the UCA stock. Lengthen the LCAs to give you 7 degree castor, and you're done and have an excellent setup for not much more money. That's if your lift is 3.5" or less.
I'm not sure if JKS short arms are long enough for 4" lift. Though one thing about JKS adjustable length "short" control arms (or any brand of adjustable length LCA), you can make them quite a bit longer than stock. So while it's not a true long arm, it's the next best thing, IMO. For a low lift 3" and under, it might even be better than long arms since most long arms aren't made to adjust for low lift heights.

The JKS LCAs (shortarms) sure work good for my around 3" lift. IME they work best when the lower LCAs are lengthened to give 7 degree castor with stock length UCAs.

I prefer the JKS LCAs because they're highly mud and water resistant, and they offer great vibration damping via its stock rubber bushings, and have joints (water resistant joints) that help articulation. I live in a cold rain forest with much rain and snow, and also in winter corrosive chemicals or salt added to winter roads. So being resistant to wet, mud, and corrosion is a key reason I chose JKS. That and they have stock rubber bushings that dampen impacts and vibrations well (as smooth riding as stock LCA).

I especially like that the JKS LCA are length adjustable. If you have stock or Barnett diff cover, stock trackbar and stock draglink, you'll have enough clearance to lengthen LCAs to increase wheel base by moving front axle forward. Also, IMO this has the added benefit of shifting some weight off front tires to rear tires. This helps the front have more flotation and the rear less, which helps both ends float about equally, prevents front tires sinking as much, and increases rear tires' traction (while still having full traction in front). Adjusting for 7 degree castor also greatly improves high speed steering and reduces/prevents death wobble IMO.
^^^ That was my setup for about 18 months and it worked great with stock diff cover. Then I bought an ARB diff cover and my clearance problems begain. Next I bought a Riddler, and then a Crane cover - none of those aftermarket covers would clear the stock trackbar. I should have solved the clearance issue by getting a Barnett diff cover, but instead I tried to solve the clearance problems with aftermarket trackbar(s), which only made things worse because every aftermarket trackbar has less clearance to diff cover than the stock trackbar. I tried a a JKS trackbar, and then a Currie trackbar, both of which offer far less diff cover clearance than the stock trackbar. Also, both of these aftermarket trackbars cause(d) slight bumpsteer with stock pitman arm, and severe bumpsteer with a drop pitman arm. There is no pitman arm made that has proper drop to work good with JKS or Currie trackbars (probably not other aftermarket trackbars either). The stock trackbar is by far the best trackbar for a lift height under 4". The stock trackbar might even be best or equal to best for a 4" lift height (if the axle mount end is moved to center axle).

=====

If your lift height is 3" (or less) actual height, leave your stock trackbar alone!!! It's perfect as is! No aftermarket trackbar is as good as the stock trackbar for these low lift heights. If you have a D44, use a Barnett diff cover and be happy. If you have a D30 or D60, you can use a Barnett or an Alloy USA stamped cover (5/16" thick) for great diff cover clearane.


=====

If your lift height is between 3.25" and 4" actual height, then continue using your stock trackbar, but do relocate the axle mount end to center your axle. No aftermarket trackbar is as good as the stock trackbar for these low lift heights. If you have a D44, use a Barnett diff cover and be happy. If you have a D30 or D60, you can use a Barnett or an Alloy USA stamped cover (5/16" thick) for great diff cover clearane.

The reason I suggest moving the axle mount end, and not the frame mount end, is that moving the frame mount might cause diff cover clearance problems. I think the frame mount is perfect stock. Moving the axle mount end will center axle, and won't create clearance problems with diff cover.

=====

IMO

Last edited by CB3; 09-12-2009 at 08:28 PM..
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