[Baotchi]

Man your jeep is sick!

[neZZr]

Originally Posted by BNovak

Finally someone else going hydro that wants to talk about it.

But...quick question. You say it is completely replacing your steering box - so no more crappy link's in the front and just the ram is going to do the steering? Never seen a setup like that and the big question is road - legality.

Reason I ask is I'm looking at hydro in the short future but just replaced my steering box. All the kit's I've seen require you to send in your old steering gear and they replace it with new stuff with the fittings on it. Well, that's fine except I have a durango box now

Keep us all posted - looks like a fun winter project. (I'm doing gears if it makes you feel better!)

I don't think Jay is concerned with street use at this point... but it is a valid question because full hydraulic steering is not street legal. Hydraulic ram-assist is legal however, so that's the route you'd want to go if you're driving it on the street.

[JeepRocks86]

how much you wanting to sell your clayton arms for???

[BigJeepJay]

Originally Posted by BNovak

Finally someone else going hydro that wants to talk about it.

But...quick question. You say it is completely replacing your steering box - so no more crappy link's in the front and just the ram is going to do the steering? Never seen a setup like that and the big question is road - legality.

Reason I ask is I'm looking at hydro in the short future but just replaced my steering box. All the kit's I've seen require you to send in your old steering gear and they replace it with new stuff with the fittings on it. Well, that's fine except I have a durango box now

Keep us all posted - looks like a fun winter project. (I'm doing gears if it makes you feel better!)

Last year I did a Hydro Assist with AGR's Rock Ram system and boy does AGR make crap.

The hydro-assist system used a new steering box which came from AGR which was basically a modified stock box (drilled, tapped a new port, and different gearing) which connects to a borgeson steering shaft to the wheel. The Pump from AGR really didn't seem to be anythings special and the ram is just a regular stroke cylinder.

The first weekend I took it out, it worked great for the first hour but after that steering was all by arm strength (except when throttling out). So I thought air in the system...bled it, works great for an hour then back to the loss of steering. I checked the temp of the PS fluid...nice and cool. So now I am like WTF

So I start thinking about how this system should work and it hits me...the pump is not supplying enough fluid power to keep up with the steering. This means the pulley is undersized and I proved this by pulling the AGR pump and getting a Saginaw P Series pump from PSC which has been out-boarded to allow the belt to turn the pulley at the correct speed thus the pump supplying the right amount of fluid pressure.

I have run this new pump for many hours with no loss of steering power as PSC has a much better design than AGR. When I first encountered this problem, I contacted AGR and they told me the problem was either air or me not using synthetic fluid. I got rid of both of those variables and still had the issues. So after switching to PSC, I called them back and they basically told me that it is the responsibility of the "buyer" to properly size the pulley needed with their pump which makes no sense as they sell their "kit" for TJ's to properly run hydro assist on the trail and road. Thank god I never had the steering issue on the highway

Moral of the story...stay away from AGR

Back to the Hydraulic system I am building.

Yes I will be removing the steering box as well as the whole steering column.

My Full-Hydro system will work like this...

Driver input from the steering wheel is transfered to the orbital valve (attached to firewall) which will have four outputs, 1 to left side of ram, 1 to right side of ram, 1 to pump, and 1 to the reservoir. The input from the steering wheel will determine which was the ram is moved thus moving your wheels.

Full Hydro Steering is NOT illegal as far as the DOT is concerned but is regulated by local laws.

I hope this answered all your questions

[BigJeepJay]

Originally Posted by neZZr

I don't think Jay is concerned with street use at this point... but it is a valid question because full hydraulic steering is not street legal. Hydraulic ram-assist is legal however, so that's the route you'd want to go if you're driving it on the street.

I checked with the DOT and Full Hydro not illegal according to them on a national level...it is the state's local transportation authority you need to check with. I called them in Mass and they told me no problem which surprised me for this State

[neZZr]

Originally Posted by BigJeepJay

I checked with the DOT and Full Hydro not illegal according to them on a national level...it is the state's local transportation authority you need to check with. I called them in Mass and they told me no problem which surprised me for this State

Really? I guess it's like beadlocks... everyone assumes it's illegal just because it isn't specifically DOT approved. Though I still don't think I'd want to know what happens when you loose steering at 80mph and have no physical linkage to the front tires

[BigJeepJay]

Originally Posted by neZZr

Though I still don't think I'd want to know what happens when you loose steering at 80mph and have no physical linkage to the front tires

Then you just get a good workout by moving the steering wheel a bit faster to create suction and force the ram to steer Yeah no Highway for the TJ after this.

[172heavy]

Just Food For Thought On The Hydraulic Steering For Highway Usage. The Industry I Work In Has Used Hydraulic Steering For Years A Few Things We Use To Increase Safety Are As Follows
First We Have Three Sources Of Fluid Flow, 2 Primary And 1 Emergency The Two Primary Are Engine Driven And The Emergency Is An Inertia Driven Pump Which Is Driven Off Of The Transfer Case (in Case The Engine Dies While Driving) The Second Safety Feature Is Flow Indicators For Each Circuit. These Let The Driver Know If There Is A Problem Before It Becomes An Emergency.
I Know This Is Probably Overkill For A Jeep Like I Said Just A Little Food For Thought.

[neZZr]

Originally Posted by 172heavy

Just Food For Thought On The Hydraulic Steering For Highway Usage. The Industry I Work In Has Used Hydraulic Steering For Years A Few Things We Use To Increase Safety Are As Follows
First We Have Three Sources Of Fluid Flow, 2 Primary And 1 Emergency The Two Primary Are Engine Driven And The Emergency Is An Inertia Driven Pump Which Is Driven Off Of The Transfer Case (in Case The Engine Dies While Driving) The Second Safety Feature Is Flow Indicators For Each Circuit. These Let The Driver Know If There Is A Problem Before It Becomes An Emergency.
I Know This Is Probably Overkill For A Jeep Like I Said Just A Little Food For Thought.

Overkill or not, I think that's the only kind of hydraulic setup I'd want to drive on the highway.

[BigJeepJay]

Originally Posted by 172heavy

Just Food For Thought On The Hydraulic Steering For Highway Usage. The Industry I Work In Has Used Hydraulic Steering For Years A Few Things We Use To Increase Safety Are As Follows
First We Have Three Sources Of Fluid Flow, 2 Primary And 1 Emergency The Two Primary Are Engine Driven And The Emergency Is An Inertia Driven Pump Which Is Driven Off Of The Transfer Case (in Case The Engine Dies While Driving) The Second Safety Feature Is Flow Indicators For Each Circuit. These Let The Driver Know If There Is A Problem Before It Becomes An Emergency.
I Know This Is Probably Overkill For A Jeep Like I Said Just A Little Food For Thought.

Good to know...Thanks Man

[BigJeepJay]

Now since I am in Japan for work and can't put any time into the Jeep this week, I have been thinking over the details of the suspension.

Currently it is a 5 link front and a 4 link triangulated rear. I am thinking about doing a True 4 Link Triangulated front since I am going to be making new arms. The triangulation will allow me to remove the front trackbar as the two triangulated arms will be doing its job. Since I am doing a full hydraulic steering, I don't have to worry about the bump steer my crossover steering would have seen.

On the rear, I think I am going to stay with a single triangulated setup although it seems like a lot of people go to a double triangulated setup for the rear...need to do a little more research on this one I think.

[TLott]

Can you provide a part # of the rollover valve and fuel pump you are using with the RCI cell? I am doing the same thing as you (actually rebuilding after a multiple roll in Tellico) - I have fuel rings to use the stock pump, but I am changing my mind and thinking of using an external pump instead. Having trouble finding someone documenting an external pump on a TJ and want to do things right the first time if possible...

Thanks!

[XFR Jay]

isn't freetown quite a hike from charlton??? any way your jeep looks sick and i look forward to reading more about your build

[BigJeepJay]

Originally Posted by TLott

Can you provide a part # of the rollover valve and fuel pump you are using with the RCI cell? I am doing the same thing as you (actually rebuilding after a multiple roll in Tellico) - I have fuel rings to use the stock pump, but I am changing my mind and thinking of using an external pump instead. Having trouble finding someone documenting an external pump on a TJ and want to do things right the first time if possible...

Thanks!

The rollover valve is by MagnaFuel, Part# MRF-MP-3125 .

[BigJeepJay]

Originally Posted by XFR Jay

isn't freetown quite a hike from charlton??? any way your jeep looks sick and i look forward to reading more about your build

Charlton is about an hour away from my house but my friend Dave who owns the shop is a great guy and excellent resource for fabricating knowledge. Plus I'd rather do the work there and have his help than to try to park it in my driveway and freeze