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Unread 08-13-2012, 11:52 PM   #16
1bad427ls1
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I have DW at around 50 mph and it is so violent that I have to drive to the side of the road and slow down to about 20 mph for it to stop. Totally stock with no modifications. A little history.... New track bar, I changed the control arm bushings once my self, had a reputable shop change them second time, balance tires, and do an alignment, they said they couldn't find anything loose or wrong with anything on front suspension. I seemed to help for a week or two but the dw started again shortly. I ordered some supposedly heavy duty CA bushings from either Rusty's Offroad or one of them 4 wheel drive companies. I installed them and with in weeks the dw returned even worse. I changed the steering gear box during one of these times. The ball joints feel tight but still dw. I have tried to change the castor to several different position and no help. I now have stock bushings (forth set) in the ca's and still have dw at 50mph.....I have no clue to what or how to fix it.....

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Unread 08-14-2012, 07:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
If you have in fact seen that, I will venture that for every low mileage stock vehicle with a case of DW, there are at least a thousand NOT stock NOT low Mileage NOT maintained rigs with NON stock rims, NON stock backspacing, and aftermarket parts up the wazoo that are still blaming Chrysler. I see it on the boards way too often for it to be different.

Also, it's patently unfair of you to attempt to use the smallest statistic possible to make all this stuff Chrysler's fault.
You are right. Most of the problem with DW involves rigs with non-stock suspension components and larger than stock tires. My point was only that it can and does occur with completely stock vehicles as well. There have been several posts on this forum by people with stock vehicles that went to dealerships with DW problems and got no meaningful help.

My rig is far from stock. If I experience DW would I expect Chrysler to fix it for me? Hell no!

However, when I took my wife's TJ, with less than 20K miles, on it to the dealer for DW issues do I expect Chrysler to do something? Hell yes! What did I get? "She should try avoid hitting bumps between 35-45 MPH." I even showed them what the problem was only to be told there was nothing wrong. I ended up fixing it myself. Do I want the government involved? Hell no! Government involvement will likely result in things we don't want to see such as the end of production of vehicles with solid front axles.
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Unread 08-14-2012, 07:38 AM   #18
DstroyrOfWrldz
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this release from Chrysler makes it sound like it's just a basic steering shimmy, which reflects at best a misunderstanding of the issue, or at worst a slap-in the face and a F-You to every Jeep owner that thinks a capable offroad vehicle should have more than 30" tires.

If this is their response to death wobble, I can't to see (if it ever happens) their response to the OPDA issue and the fuel tank roll over valve that spews a pint of gasoline every time I fill up. I'm sure those were probably caused by my aftermarket armrests and the additional weight of my spare tire.

Chrysler has made their last dollar on me. My next SUV will come from someone else.

(I'm still pissed from replacing my OPDA last night)
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
this release from Chrysler makes it sound like it's just a basic steering shimmy, which reflects at best a misunderstanding of the issue, or at worst a slap-in the face and a F-You to every Jeep owner that thinks a capable offroad vehicle should have more than 30" tires.

If this is their response to death wobble, I can't to see (if it ever happens) their response to the OPDA issue and the fuel tank roll over valve that spews a pint of gasoline every time I fill up. I'm sure those were probably caused by my aftermarket armrests and the additional weight of my spare tire.

Chrysler has made their last dollar on me. My next SUV will come from someone else.

(I'm still pissed from replacing my OPDA last night)
Jeep will not put death wobble on a technical release for obvious reasons.

Death wobble is a steering shimmy.

This is very hard for some people to grasp, probably because the term steering shimmy does not mention life ending events.
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:04 AM   #20
MJBinNM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bad427ls1 View Post
I have DW at around 50 mph and it is so violent that I have to drive to the side of the road and slow down to about 20 mph for it to stop. Totally stock with no modifications. A little history.... New track bar, I changed the control arm bushings once my self, had a reputable shop change them second time, balance tires, and do an alignment, they said they couldn't find anything loose or wrong with anything on front suspension. I seemed to help for a week or two but the dw started again shortly. I ordered some supposedly heavy duty CA bushings from either Rusty's Offroad or one of them 4 wheel drive companies. I installed them and with in weeks the dw returned even worse. I changed the steering gear box during one of these times. The ball joints feel tight but still dw. I have tried to change the castor to several different position and no help. I now have stock bushings (forth set) in the ca's and still have dw at 50mph.....I have no clue to what or how to fix it.....
You don't mention TREs...have they been replaced? Not saying they would be the cause for violent DW, but they can contribute. Have you checked all the axle securing mounting points (CAs, TB)? Check to see that holes aren't wallowed out, mounts aren't cracked or broken. Are you sure everything is torqued correctly? You say that you replaced the CA bushings, what kind of shape are the CAs in?
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:08 AM   #21
Wheelin98TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bad427ls1 View Post
I have DW at around 50 mph and it is so violent that I have to drive to the side of the road and slow down to about 20 mph for it to stop. Totally stock with no modifications. A little history.... New track bar, I changed the control arm bushings once my self, had a reputable shop change them second time, balance tires, and do an alignment, they said they couldn't find anything loose or wrong with anything on front suspension. I seemed to help for a week or two but the dw started again shortly. I ordered some supposedly heavy duty CA bushings from either Rusty's Offroad or one of them 4 wheel drive companies. I installed them and with in weeks the dw returned even worse. I changed the steering gear box during one of these times. The ball joints feel tight but still dw. I have tried to change the castor to several different position and no help. I now have stock bushings (forth set) in the ca's and still have dw at 50mph.....I have no clue to what or how to fix it.....
Do a dry steering test and report back with your findings.

A dry steering test is when you turn the steering wheel back and forth quickly while watching underneath for any slop. Do this with the Jeep off and the tires on the ground. Look for slop in anything that is steering related and anything that locates the axle.

What shape are your tires in? What kind of wheels do you have?
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
at worst a slap-in the face and a F-You to every Jeep owner that thinks a capable offroad vehicle should have more than 30" tires.
No auto manufacturer has an obligation to engineer their product to account for all the aftermarket things people might do. Probably 99% of all jeep owners will never experience DW and be perfectly happy with how the front end of their jeeps work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DstroyrOfWrldz View Post
If this is their response to death wobble, I can't to see (if it ever happens) their response to the OPDA issue and the fuel tank roll over valve that spews a pint of gasoline every time I fill up. I'm sure those were probably caused by my aftermarket armrests and the additional weight of my spare tire.
DW is not a design defect like those other things. They really should be more responsible for those other things. They don't have catchy names though. Perhaps, if we started referring to those as The Laughing Monkey of Death or the Gasoline Inferno.
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #23
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...or the Gasoline Inferno.
lol
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:19 AM   #24
MJBinNM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ View Post
Jeep will not put death wobble on a technical release for obvious reasons.

Death wobble is a steering shimmy.

This is very hard for some people to grasp, probably because the term steering shimmy does not mention life ending events.
This might be true for some, even most, but mine was not a *steering shimmy*. Mine was definitely caused by my axle moving in a manner that it was not supposed to. After changing my CAs, with no changes to ANY steering components, it went away. I don't even feel a tire twitch any more. I since have upgraded my tie rod, but even prior to that it was gone.

I truly believe that my death wobble was a manifestation of torque induced precession* that acted on the worn/compromised CA bushings. This caused a violent struggle under the Jeep which I call Death Wobble.

*From Wikepedia: "Torque-induced precession (gyroscopic precession) is the phenomenon in which the axis of a spinning object (e.g., a part of a gyroscope) "wobbles" when a torque is applied to it, which causes a distribution of force around the acted axis. The phenomenon is commonly seen in a spinning toy top, but all rotating objects can undergo precession. If the speed of the rotation and the magnitude of the torque are constant, the axis will describe a cone, its movement at any instant being at right angles to the direction of the torque. In the case of a toy top, if the axis is not perfectly vertical, the torque is applied by the force of gravity tending to tip it over."
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Unread 08-14-2012, 08:31 AM   #25
Wheelin98TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBinNM View Post
This might be true for some, even most, but mine was not a *steering shimmy*. Mine was definitely caused by my axle moving in a manner that it was not supposed to...
If the axle moves in a manner that it is not supposed to, the steering wheel also moves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBinNM View Post
...I truly believe that my death wobble was a manifestation of torque induced precession* that acted on the worn/compromised CA bushings. This caused a violent struggle under the Jeep which I call Death Wobble.

*From Wikepedia: "Torque-induced precession (gyroscopic precession) is the phenomenon in which the axis of a spinning object (e.g., a part of a gyroscope) "wobbles" when a torque is applied to it, which causes a distribution of force around the acted axis. The phenomenon is commonly seen in a spinning toy top, but all rotating objects can undergo precession. If the speed of the rotation and the magnitude of the torque are constant, the axis will describe a cone, its movement at any instant being at right angles to the direction of the torque. In the case of a toy top, if the axis is not perfectly vertical, the torque is applied by the force of gravity tending to tip it over."
Steering wheel shimmy is a happy medium between death wobble and torque induced precession or gyroscopic precession.

It still sounds intelligent, yet its not too difficult for most people to understand.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 09:01 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by MESSY View Post
Our bone stock 05 Rubi started to exhibit some DW at approx 35k miles. Interestingly we had a 98 Sahara that was perfect up till the day we traded it at 40 some thousand miles. The Rubi driving characteristics seem to almost change with the weather. Some days it feels good, others it's a shaky mess. Doesn't wobble excessively, but has given my wife a few scares with a couple bouts of fairly severe steering wheel oscillation. Overall I think it rides like crap compared to the 98. Hasn't been flexed excessively either. It just seems harsh. It's just over 40k now.

This ones getting cured with a full 3" Savvy lift, RS9000s, and 5 new C load range 33" MTR Kevlars.
just picked up an 06 lj with 53k on it..needed tires and the light shimmy and every once in a while wobble I attributed to that, and needed rotors...anyway..swapped tires, did brakes, replaced damper..still there but better..dry test, nothing looks bad/no delay..u joints look good, dunno...now the 2000 we have..tight as a vette...the 06..drives more like my 2a..
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Unread 08-28-2012, 03:30 AM   #27
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Control arm bushings had some cracks/deterioration on mine, but didn't look completely trashed. Now that it's sitting on Savvy arms and new rubber it's a dream.
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Unread 09-04-2012, 08:22 AM   #28
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My uncle has a 98 sport that's getting HORRIBLE death wobble.

they had the tires replaced, balljoints replaced, trac bar replaced, and the steering stabilizer replaced and it's been aligned...

i can't feel any slop with the steering wheel wiggle.

My only other thought is maybe the control arm bushings are shot causing movement? it has 140k miles on it and is towed behind their motorhome.

any thoughts?
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Unread 09-04-2012, 09:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
My uncle has a 98 sport that's getting HORRIBLE death wobble.

they had the tires replaced, balljoints replaced, trac bar replaced, and the steering stabilizer replaced and it's been aligned...

i can't feel any slop with the steering wheel wiggle.

My only other thought is maybe the control arm bushings are shot causing movement? it has 140k miles on it and is towed behind their motorhome.

any thoughts?
I wager yes. My '06 Rubicon only has 25k miles on it and mine are shot. But I do a lot of off road on this rig.
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Unread 09-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #30
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You need to remember that "death wobble" isn't just a jeep or Chrysler thing. Ive seen it happen on Broncos, full size pickups, mid size pickups, and pretty much everything else with a solid front axle. If one thing is worn out it can cause it. Unbalanced or unevenly worn tires can trigger it, but the root of it is something in the suspension is ****ed up. CA's, tie rods, track bars, bushings, ball joints, etc. can all be a cause. When one bushing or ball joint is worn it can cause all the others to prematurely wear as well. Its usually the one thing you least suspect that ends up being the culprit, or numerous things working together. If you inspect and maintain your vehicle regularly you shouldn't run into an issue.
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