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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:55 PM   #31
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I hate threads like this where a manufacturer of a complex device like a driveshaft, who is also extremely well known for his quality and support, is publicly blasted when the OP, who is inexperienced with such components, has no clue what happened or why it happened.

Personally, I'm on about my 6th Tom Wood driveshaft over the years and his high quality and extraordinary support keeps me coming back.

As was said above, the part that failed was actually made by Dana-Spicer who is the OE Manufacturer for all Jeep driveshafts and axles. Not calling Tom first to tell him what happened and give him a chance to respond with his usually extraordinary level of support before publicly dragging him over the coals is poor form in my personal opinion.
As you know, I've always been a fan of developing a relationship with a local shop purely to avoid the hassle of shipping stuff back and forth to anyone. That was a great and wonderful theory until two things happened. All my local folks priced themselves out of any driveshaft work even a re-tube and balance or simply balance. The second thing is I actually used a few of Tom's shafts, dealt with Tom, and found out just how great his service and products are.

The final straw was a quote to rebuild a rear 1310 Double Cardan shaft that was less than a year old, less than a 1000 miles on it and the price was over 400 bucks. A new one from Tom was better made, balanced better, and about 2/3rds the price of the rebuild for new. The same shop just built a rear driveshaft for an LJ. It was almost 700 bucks. I got one from Tom for him as a spare for half that.

Now after dealing with him for several years and owning at least 9 of his drivelines, I'd rather go through the shipping hassle on my end than drive less than an hour to any of the well known shops in the area numbering at least 5 off the top of my head.

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Unread 01-30-2014, 08:57 PM   #32
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Too many accusations based on too little information.

I find it hard to believe Mr. Wood would have any issue discussing the matter. Hell, he called me personally on my cell phone to discuss just a question I emailed to him about a hack n' tap SYE that may have been his.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:16 PM   #33
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I do apologize to Tom Wood if he does read this. My original post was made immediately after being stranded in a parking lot of a mexican restaurant without 4wd in the south's largest snowstorm of recent years. I definitely posted before I had all the facts, and a bit more anti-tom wood then I meant it. I have had a great experience with the customer service. It was the driveshaft that is broken, so my first thought was that it was the driveshaft that was the problem. It probably isn't, as the sound persisted after the breaking and subsequent removal of the driveshaft. Whether it is the driveshaft, my install, or some other part gone bad, I was more rude than I should have been. Mr. Blane and Jerry Bransford, I have a lot of respect for both of you and your opinions, both of me and toward Jeep stuff, and really that's a main reason I am apologizing. I am certain even if it is the driveshaft that is bad that it is a complex and difficult thing to build, and as has been pointed out, the part that broke is a spicer part.

Anyway, my foolishness aside, I couldn't get the diff cover off so I soaked the bolts in PB blaster and will try again in the morning.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:19 PM   #34
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I can understand the emotion that can come with a broken part and have been under the heat of the moment and couldn't stop myself from blasting my feelings toward a product. It's kind of the way my stupid brain works sometimes. Wish there was a forum delay feature that could attach to a mood ring to catch me in time of blasting type posts. What's been said on here is pretty spot on. Can't tell the root of the problem and without that, it's no fun poking a sharp stick at what customer (forum) support that is out there. Good luck getting your problem resolved. These guys would love to solve your problem if you let them and maybe take a step back and give Tom some lovin.

Just to play devils advocate, could a cap with no grease cause that? Guessing it's probably a super slim possibility. But hey, it's kind of fun jumping to conclusions, oh wait, bad brain.

edit, looks like you were already taking the high road and didn't need little old me to give you any advice.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:31 PM   #35
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Take a side view picture of your rear differential with the transfer case output in the same pic, that would be a good start to see if your angle is set up close to correct.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J03_TJ View Post
I can understand the emotion that can come with a broken part and have been under the heat of the moment and couldn't stop myself from blasting my feelings toward a product. It's kind of the way my stupid brain works sometimes. Wish there was a forum delay feature that could attach to a mood ring to catch me in time of blasting type posts. What's been said on here is pretty spot on. Can't tell the root of the problem and without that, it's no fun poking a sharp stick at what customer (forum) support that is out there. Good luck getting your problem resolved. These guys would love to solve your problem if you let them and maybe take a step back and give Tom some lovin.

Just to play devils advocate, could a cap with no grease cause that? Guessing it's probably a super slim possibility. But hey, it's kind of fun jumping to conclusions, oh wait, bad brain.

edit, looks like you were already taking the high road and didn't need little old me to give you any advice.
I'm with you there, some sort of anti-frustration filter. Haha. I called him once already, actually before I posted, (hence my repeated statements of how good the customer service is) and the person who answered was fairly helpful.

Oh, and it's the front shaft. Did I not mention that at first? Man... I really wasn't posting well...
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Unread 01-30-2014, 09:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J03_TJ View Post
I can understand the emotion that can come with a broken part and have been under the heat of the moment and couldn't stop myself from blasting my feelings toward a product. It's kind of the way my stupid brain works sometimes. Wish there was a forum delay feature that could attach to a mood ring to catch me in time of blasting type posts. What's been said on here is pretty spot on. Can't tell the root of the problem and without that, it's no fun poking a sharp stick at what customer (forum) support that is out there. Good luck getting your problem resolved. These guys would love to solve your problem if you let them and maybe take a step back and give Tom some lovin.

Just to play devils advocate, could a cap with no grease cause that? Guessing it's probably a super slim possibility. But hey, it's kind of fun jumping to conclusions, oh wait, bad brain.

edit, looks like you were already taking the high road and didn't need little old me to give you any advice.
It is hard to tell anything. That broken tab with the bolt holes in it is not normal at all and leads one to think that something else is going on. The rest of the tab should still be bolted in place on the output yoke which makes one wonder how it came to be laying on the ground?

Was it removed by the owner? If so, what was the condition of the bolts and such at the output yoke? Is the broken piece still attached?

Was there a large amount of vibration beforehand?

The only way I can envision that tab breaking off is if the two bolts or maybe 3 bolts were not installed correctly and the force from spinning slung the shaft sideways and broke the tab off after the other bolts left.

A picture of the 4 bolts would do wonders.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 10:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
It is hard to tell anything. That broken tab with the bolt holes in it is not normal at all and leads one to think that something else is going on. The rest of the tab should still be bolted in place on the output yoke which makes one wonder how it came to be laying on the ground?

Was it removed by the owner? If so, what was the condition of the bolts and such at the output yoke? Is the broken piece still attached?

Was there a large amount of vibration beforehand?

The only way I can envision that tab breaking off is if the two bolts or maybe 3 bolts were not installed correctly and the force from spinning slung the shaft sideways and broke the tab off after the other bolts left.

A picture of the 4 bolts would do wonders.
I did remove it, yes. I needed to drive away from the mexican restaraunt. The broken piece is still on the yoke, at least one bolt was missing after the breaking. There was a good bit of snow still, so I couldn't stay there long. I may have installed it wrong, I am certainly not going to say I didn't make a mistake. But I am fairly obsessive about making sure all the bolts are tight, and I remember double and triple checking that all four were in there tight. But maybe I should have quadruple checked. It is an awkward place, the T-case side of the shaft.
And there was a fair bit of vibration, but it persisted after the removal of the shaft.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 10:32 PM   #39
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Damn, there goes the jump to conclusions game. Hey I can't see the pic of the broken stuff anymore.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 10:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclovinal View Post
I did remove it, yes. I needed to drive away from the mexican restaraunt. The broken piece is still on the yoke, at least one bolt was missing after the breaking.
I'm not quite understanding this part. How many bolts can you actually account for including what ever is still holding the tab in?

Was it vibrating before the failure?


Quote:
There was a good bit of snow still, so I couldn't stay there long. I may have installed it wrong, I am certainly not going to say I didn't make a mistake. But I am fairly obsessive about making sure all the bolts are tight, and I remember double and triple checking that all four were in there tight. But maybe I should have quadruple checked. It is an awkward place, the T-case side of the shaft.
And there was a fair bit of vibration, but it persisted after the removal of the shaft.
I only attempted to install one front driveshaft with the t-case skid in place and forever dropped them after that horrible incident. It's too tight in there to accurately gauge what is going on with such a critical item. Also at no point in time should those bolts be installed without cleaning the grease out of the threaded holes, cleaning the bolts, and then using some form of threadlocker.

I use Blue Loctite so even if I screw up and the bolt doesn't get tightened correctly, I have at least diminished the chances of losing the bolt. Be away that they are a special length and normal length bolts in that fine thread version are either too long or too short. The long versions hit on the sides of the H bar at full flex of the shaft and the short versions don't fully engage the threads. Why I might know that is I've been trying to find some 12 point head versions to make them easier to remove and install and I've had very little luck finding the correct lengths.

I finally has to resort to purchasing a brake bleeder wrench because it was the only decent 6 point wrench I could find in 5/16's.
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Unread 01-30-2014, 10:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by mclovinal View Post
[IMG][/IMG]
What caused the scaring/abrasion on the CV driveshaft housing? It looks like that could have possibly contributed to the driveshaft failure?

I've subjected my drive shafts to similar abuse...





If you subject the drive shaft yoke to side loading abuse, such as rock loading. Its may fail, or was that damage due to after the failure?... IMO
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Unread 01-31-2014, 08:06 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by bbradUSMC View Post
This is how a stock setup with a non double cardan (CV) style shaft is set.


This is how a proper pinion should be set with a double cardan (CV) style shaft should be set.



Your wrong pinion most likely caused the all of your problems.
He is running less than 2" of susp. lift. Many run this amount with stock control arms and no adjustment to the drive line angles with no problems.
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Unread 01-31-2014, 08:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
I'll be right there with you that he should NOT apologize right after you show me which part of that failure can be attributed to ANY driveshaft builder?

Do you know that all the drive shaft bolts were tightened correctly?

Do you know that the pinion angle was correct?

Do you know that he didn't knock it out of balance and has just been driving it anyway?

Do you know that the noises he is hearing didn't take out the driveshaft?

That failure is atypical, not attributable to a driveshaft builder and until we know the whole story, I fully believe not only Tom, but any driveshaft builder should be apologized to for the previous statements made by the OP.
I am betting he had another issue in the diff or tcase that caused the noise, that issue and I betting the lack grease on the center ball or Ujoints caused the failure. I can't imagine the pinion off with a 1.75 susp lift.

About the other issue my point is there are some on this board that will be quick to blame certain products for any reason but stand up for other products and will not except that they could fail unless the driver did something wrong.
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Unread 01-31-2014, 08:57 AM   #44
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About the other issue my point is there are some on this board that will be quick to blame certain products for any reason but stand up for other products and will not except that they could fail unless the driver did something wrong.
Neither of which I really care about. What I do care about is that the right fault gets attributed to the right place regardless.

One can make a lot of generalizations about a lot of things. In cases like these, they do little to no good and you know better.
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Unread 01-31-2014, 09:11 AM   #45
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He is running less than 2" of susp. lift. Many run this amount with stock control arms and no adjustment to the drive line angles with no problems.
not on a cardan you wont, few degrees and it will shake like Elvis. the pin must be at least close to parallel to the drive shaft. +-1* . Tipping the rear up is the ONLY way to run these. Or it will fail Catastrophically. this can lead to a Tcase failure and other mayhem.
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