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Unread 03-30-2006, 08:14 PM   #1
bobjp
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Soft brake pedal

I replaced the right front caliper on my Jeep today and now the pedal is soft. I bled the brakes multiple times, but the pedal still goes soft. It will harden up while I am having someone press on the brake pedal (while I work the bleeder), but as soon as I go to drive it the #$@##ing pedal sinks to the floor. I tightened the hose properly and filled the resevoir. There are no leaks on any of the brake lines. I bled each wheel staring with the one furthest from the master cylender. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks a lot

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Unread 03-30-2006, 09:42 PM   #2
Hardkrawler
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Did you keep bleeding until no more air came out?
Sounds like there is still air in the system.....
Bleed them again?
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Unread 03-30-2006, 09:55 PM   #3
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp
I replaced the right front caliper on my Jeep today and now the pedal is soft. I bled the brakes multiple times, but the pedal still goes soft. It will harden up while I am having someone press on the brake pedal (while I work the bleeder), but as soon as I go to drive it the #$@##ing pedal sinks to the floor. I tightened the hose properly and filled the resevoir. There are no leaks on any of the brake lines. I bled each wheel staring with the one furthest from the master cylender. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks a lot
They sold you the wrong caliper.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 09:03 AM   #4
bobjp
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I bled the brakes until I got a strong steady stream of fluid, there was no air coming out at all. I went through more than a bottle of brake fluid trying to bleed them.
The caliper looked like my old one, but I suppose there could still be something wrong with it.
Last night I pulled it in the garage and pumped the brake pedal. If I keep pressing like five times and then hold it, it will build up pressure. But when I let go, then wait a second, then press the pedal again, it goes to the floor. Also when I let go I hear a release of air coming from the master cylender area. It sounds like it may be coming from the cap. I cleaned it and made sure it was tight, but it still did it. Even if the cap were bad, it wouldn't cause a soft pedal, right? Plus I have never had this problem before.
Any other ideas?
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Unread 03-31-2006, 09:22 AM   #5
jeep_chinto
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try bleeding the rest of the breaks maby air worked its way into the system and ur feeling a soft petal because air is in a nother break line

start at the back passanger side then back driver side then front passanger side then front driver side bleed i beleve thats the order
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Unread 03-31-2006, 09:30 AM   #6
mdm
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Is the caliper's bleed screw on the top or bottom? If it is on the bottom, it will permit air to be trapped in the top when you try to bleed the system even though no air bubbles show up in the fluid as you bleed the system.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 09:38 AM   #7
bobjp
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I bled all the brakes.

The bleeder screw is below where the brake line attatches to the caliper, so I guess it would be considered to be at the bottom. If it is trapping air, how would I go about getting the air out?


Thanks
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Unread 03-31-2006, 10:10 AM   #8
mdm
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Did you get left side caliper by mistake?

That would explain how it got upside down.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 10:14 AM   #9
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp
I bled all the brakes.

The bleeder screw is below where the brake line attatches to the caliper, so I guess it would be considered to be at the bottom. If it is trapping air, how would I go about getting the air out?


Thanks
Again, they sold you the wrong caliper. Take it back and get the right one.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 12:46 PM   #10
BlueFlame
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I've found that some systems are hard to bleed (especially thngs with ABS) and may simply take a lot more bleeding to finally get right. First suggestion is to keep bleeding. I use a mityvac, but those pressure bleeders that go on the reservoir are great too. Another thing I've seen in the past a time or two, especially on older vehicles is that the act of bleeding by the two-person brake pedal up-down-up-down method can overtravel the plunger in the master cyl, pushing it beyond where it normally works, and corrosion or whathaveyou inside the cylinder damages the seal. For that reason we always used to put a wood block on the floor under the pedal to prevent pushing it too far. If the master cyl is damaged in this way, it leads to the symptoms you describe as well.

I'd like to know more about how/why the caliper might be the wrong one, but <shrug> mrblaine usually knows what he's talking about!
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Unread 03-31-2006, 02:03 PM   #11
bobjp
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Quote:
Again, they sold you the wrong caliper. Take it back and get the right one.
So, the bleeder is supposed to be toward the top? I didn't realize that was a problem, I thought he was saying that it's "just the way it is."
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Unread 03-31-2006, 03:35 PM   #12
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp
So, the bleeder is supposed to be toward the top? I didn't realize that was a problem, I thought he was saying that it's "just the way it is."
I had hoped you would stick your head under your jeep and look at the 3 functioning examples of what the correct relationship between the brake line port on the caliper and the bleed screw was.

Since you insist, air is lighter than brake fluid and will accumulate in the high point of the caliper piston bore. The only way to remove it is to vent it out the top, hence the location of the bleed screw. It is the high point and the only reason we move fluid is the create a bit of turbulence to knock the small air bubbles loose that want to cling to the bore. Were it not for that fact, all we would ever need to do is a gravity bleed.

Now, go get the correct caliper and install it. Take the one with you and tell the counter monkey that you want the mirror image of it.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 03:39 PM   #13
mrblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp
I bled all the brakes.

The bleeder screw is below where the brake line attatches to the caliper, so I guess it would be considered to be at the bottom. If it is trapping air, how would I go about getting the air out?


Thanks
For future reference in the event that you need your brakes to work and you wind up with a wrong caliper that you can't exchange and have to bleed it.

Take it off, flip it over and slip it back on the rotor with it backwards and the bleed screw at the very top. Bleed normally without letting the caliper slip off the rotor. This stops you from overtravelling the piston and popping it out of the bore.

After bleeding take it off, flip it over and around reinstall it and you're good to go.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 04:26 PM   #14
bobjp
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Quote:
I had hoped you would stick your head under your jeep and look at the 3 functioning examples of what the correct relationship between the brake line port on the caliper and the bleed screw was.
What is with you? I ask a simple question and get condescending remarks. Yes, it was the wrong caliper, and it makes perfect sense that the bleeder be higher than the line, I just never thought of that. You learn something new everyday. If you have a problem with the way that I responded to your condescending remarks to me in another thread, that's fine. That thread was closed, so just leave those things in there and move on. I did.
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Last edited by bobjp; 03-31-2006 at 04:43 PM..
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Unread 03-31-2006, 05:13 PM   #15
Stu Olson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp
What is with you? I ask a simple question and get condescending remarks. Yes, it was the wrong caliper, and it makes perfect sense that the bleeder be higher than the line, I just never thought of that. You learn something new everyday. If you have a problem with the way that I responded to your condescending remarks to me in another thread, that's fine. That thread was closed, so just leave those things in there and move on. I did.
I was trying to figure out why mrBlaine had to tell you twice that you were sold the wrong caliper. It just seems odd that you post a thread asking for ideas on what is wrong with your brakes, you are correctly told, twice at that, what is wrong, and yet you ignore the help. Then, you get a bit cranky when that person explains what is wrong?

You think Blaine's remarks are condescending? I don't.

A condescending remark would have gone something more like "Look you dickweed.....your IQ is obviously less than the wrench you are using. Try getting the right caliper and see if that improves the odds of your being able to bleed the brakes."

I believe he interacted in this thread very nicely. However, I do believe it is you that has yet to move on (what ever that was suppose to mean....don't know about any other thread).
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