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So you want a Tummy Tuck...

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#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
So you want a Tummy Tuck

I am aware there is a thread out there similar to this in the fact that it list some of the facts about several skids on the market, but this one is complete and it just for setting up a tummy tuck. This thread will be devoted to the TJ, as this is the TJ Technical Forum and that is what most have on here. LJ's are a bit different when it comes to driveshaft requirements, but most principles still apply.

Everyone thinks they need a tummy tuck these days. They are very useful off road and even make a TJ look better because you are no longer seeing the ugly shovel. A tummy tuck takes more than just several hundred bucks to buy one, there are other things that have to be dealt with. Most decide they don't need one when they figure out how much it will cost. The stock skid not the stoutest, but will hold up to mild wheeling, and comes in at 41.5 lbs.

Depending on the Jeep you have and which route you intend on going you might need one or more of these for your tummy tuck:

1" Body Lift- All depends on how much hammering (or 'modification') you want to do on the transmission tunnel. There are various routes to go with body lifts which include JKS ($135), Daystar, Performance Accessories, Currie, etc. It seems like everyone is scared to do one of these[, whether it be due to looks or difficulty of installation.] I have seen at least 30 posts asking if they can get away with doing such and such skid without one. A lot of people that are concerned with performance think that every Jeep should have came with one from the factory. The 1" body lift is hardly noticeable and will allow other mods like a high clearance gas tank skid. They also help lift the body without changing the COG very much, reducing the amount of bumpstop you need to clear a given tire size.

Motor Mount Lift (MML)- Is needed when doing any high clearance t-case skid on a Jeep that has a suspension lift of 2" or more. Stockers can usually get away with out it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. The reason this needs to be done is when you are stuffing your tranny and tcase farther up you want to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down to help with the geometry you are messing with. By bringing the front of the engine up, you will be able to tilt the output shaft of the tcase down. There are various ways to lift your motor which include JKS(spacers-$60), Brown Dog(full replacement-$84), and M.O.R.E(full replacement-$139). If you choose new motor mounts instead of the spacers, get the rubber bushing versions to reduce engine vibrations. Poly bushings **can** transmit more engine vibrations, but they greatly reduce engine movement and will not degrade as fast as rubber. Rubber's lifespan is usually a few decades...so its your choice.

Double Cardan Driveshaft- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5- 2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. Will be needed, Rubicon or not. There are a few out there (Currie, Teraflex, ect, but only one that I would go with- Tom Woods which run around $315 (Quadratec).

Slip Yoke Eliminator (SYE)- Is needed when doing any skid on a Jeep that has been lifted 1.5-2" or more via its suspension. Stockers can usually get away without it, but if you are doing a tummy tuck chances are you aren't keeping the stock suspension height. If you have a Rubicon, you will not need one of these. Many people say that the Rubicon already has an SYE, but that is incorrect. It would have to have a slip yoke in the first place to elimininate it - Rubicons have fixed flange rear outputs. There are several good kits on the market such as Advance Adapters ($270 Quadratec), JB Conversions($300-$400), Rubicon Express ($330)

Rear upper adjustable control arms- Will be needed to rotate your pinion upward. There will be some fine tuning to eliminate driveshaft vibrations. Rokmen and Currie are the only ones I would consider when dropping money on them as of right now. Rokmen-$249. Currie- ($229)

More info on SYE/CV shafts & pinion angle: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/what-cv-shaft-why-do-i-want-one-854790/

CV trackbar bracket-This angled bracket will be needed for your trackbar when rotating the pinion. With out this bracket your stock or adjustable trackbar will bind. Rubicon Express-$70

Rear lower shock mount extenders- When rotating your pinion up, you will find that the can of your shock (if you have piston down, you may not have this problem) will rub the axle. Some extensions like those from Currie-$30 will get the job done. If you're looking for maximum flex, this is a good time to consider shock mount relocation to use long travel shocks - read here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/low-lift-long-shocks-diy-shock-shifters-whats-advantage-852221/

Spring perch modications- Will sometimes have to be done, but I personally have not seen a Jeep that has absolutely needed it. Rotating the pinion will cause the spring sit a bit different- resulting in the spring trying to arc...meaning the bumpstops will no longer align. This mod is not absolutely necessary with smaller lift heights, and mainly helps suspension geometry on taller lifts.
Read Humbolt's write up: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/outboarding-rear-shocks-upper-spring-bucket-relocation-929056/
Also see this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/rear-spring-relocator-kit-856163/

Transfer case bracket- Anyone that knows transfer case brackets know that Novak ($150) is in the top of the game. There are others out there like the one from Advance Adapters or Skyjacker that are cheaper alternatives, but just doesn't work like the Novak. The stock shift lever can often be used when a TT is install in conjunction with a MML & BL, since these keep the drivetrain and accessory angles as close to stock as possible.

Skids

Kilby- I really haven't seen many people run this skid, but looks to be well made. Skid is made from 3/16" bare steel (you will need to paint or powdercoat it). Skid can be done without a body lift. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount. Clearance gains?
Weight- 38lbs
Price- $340

AEV- I haven't seen one complaint with this skid. Skid is made from 1/4'' gusseted steel and 2.75" more clearance is possible with this skid, but where the tcase sits it has less clearance. Uses a super low-profile tranny mount. Skid comes with flat bolts that cannot hang up on rocks and comes powdercoated. Skid can be done without a body lift, but 42RLE auto owners might need to 'modify' the firewall/trans tunnel. Incorporates Rubicon locker pump mount.
Weight- ?
Price- $529

Rokmen- Beautiful skid, best tig welding I've seen for mass production Skid is made from 1/4" laser cut bare steel (you paint it) that is CNC formed. Gains of 2.25" will be seen. Uses stock tranny mount. Body lift is suggested. I have seen the back of this skid bend from mild wheeling, but this skid provides one of the best all around deals.
Weight-?
Price- $344. +$20 for Rubicon locker pump mount.

Clayton- This skid uses the 2 piece design. I haven't seen many people use this skid. It might have something to do with it only advertising .5" gain for 97-02 and 1" gain for 03-06 Wranglers. Uses 3/16" steel for the cradle and 1/4" for the skid plate. Comes with a finish, but not specific. Works with their long arm set up if you ever decide to go that route.

Price- $475
Weight- ?

Skyjacker- Zinc coated skid made from 3/16" steel with gusseted corners. Comes with shifter bracket. Gain in clearance is not specified. Only made for 97-02 Wranglers. Body lift required
Price- $410 (Quadratec)
Weight-?

Teraflex- Up to 2 3/8" gain. Made from 3/16" steel. Body lift recommended for Rubicon. Comes with finish, but not specific. Comes with a 5/8" MML.
Price- $450 + Rubicon compressor mount for Rubicons
Weight- 79 lbs

Under Cover Fabworks- Made for 97-06 Wranglers, the skid is fabricated from 3/16" thick carbon steel plate (with optional upgrade to 1/4" plate). The parts were designed in 3D CAD software and laser cut then bent on a CNC press brake. The UCF Transfer Case Skid Plate is reinforced in the middle of the skid from one side to the other with a stiffening channel/transmission mount. The front and rear edges are ramped to increase strength and aid in sliding over obstacles. Clearance gains of about 2" over the factory skid plate will be seen. The total height of this skid is about 2". Skid comes bare and does not include hardware.
Price- $169 for 3/16 and $229 for 1/4"
Weight- 60lbs (Im guessing for the 1/4")
New:
Under Cover Fabworks has released a skid that has the exact characteristics of the steel skids they produce, except they will be offered in 304 Stainless and 6061-T6 Aluminum.
Price- $329: 1/4" Aluminum
Weight-26 lbs

33 Engineering- As far as I know they are out of business, if you can still find one it is the 1 of only skid made that can be dropped without supporting the tranny. It uses a crossmember and a skid that is bolted to it. 2.75" of added clearance are said to be gained from the skid. that was ordered bare or powdered. 1" body lift required.

Never buy anything directly from these guys or anything that will be drop shipped from them. Buy from people that have the skid in stock or do not buy at all.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/offroadtoystore-33-engineering-kaput-so-my-dough-811839/
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f176/dont-buy-anything-offroadtoystore-com-809307/index2.html
Offroad Toy Store Reviews

Price-?
Weight-?

Jeepmedic-. Although no longer in business, you may be able to find one used. Skid is made from 1/4" gusseted steel with quality powdercoating. Gains of 2.25" will be seen from this beefy skid. Reuses stock trans mount and includes Rubicon locker pump mount. This was regarded as the best skid on the market at the time JeepMedic closed.

Price - ~$200-400 used in good condition
Weight-?

Goferit- Im not sure if these guys are still around. There isn't much info about these skids and not many people run them. Steel thickness? Clearance?
Price?
Weight?

Savvy Offroad- Everyone is talking about this skid. Will be made from aluminum and there has been word that it will be a completely flat skid. This not only will have the highest clearance, it will have a chance (with the UCF skid) to be the lightest of any skid listed. Savvy has some competitive pricing so I like most people I can wait to see this thing. You will most defiantly have to run a body lift if this skid is flat or do some serious modding to the tub.
Clearance gain-?
Price-?
Weight-?

*Exhaust mod- For every skid listed you will likely have to mod your exhaust so it will not contact the skid and or the lower control arm. Some people can get this done by themselves while others need to go to an exhaust shop. Going to an exhaust shop usually isn't too expensive for this fairly simple mod.

*BL or No-Some skids say body lift required or recommended, but can be done with out with enough hammering on the tranny tunnel as stated in the beginning. While most skids can be done without a body lift, you are tucking the transfer case closer to the body. There will be more noise as well as more heat coming from the exhaust as well as the tcase transferred to the floor board. Keep in mind - with a tummy tuck you are lifting the entire drivetrain up 2" or more - meaning you're changing the output shaft angle and you need to make room for the relocated components. The easiest way to do this is a 1" MML + BL.

*Prices are from the manufacturer unless stated otherwise

Do the math on the products you need for your specific Jeep, can you afford a Tummy Tuck?? Do you play in the rocks enough to justify one? If there are any errors or anything that needs to be added, let me know. Thanks. Thank you Unlimited04 for your help.
 
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#1,085 ·
Here is my TJ with a flat belly skid. It's a piece of 10mm sheet alloy, bolted directly to the chassis rails. A TMR Customs transmission crossmember supports the TC with a JB conversions super short SYE, Tom Woods DS, Novak shift cable. I already had a 2.5" lift, 1.25" BL, 1"MM and adjustable trackbars installed to make it all possible. Running 35"s.

There are still a few tweaks to make, then off to the Forrest to test flex it.

Sent from my iPad using JeepForum
 

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#1,086 ·
Here is my TJ with a flat belly skid. It's a piece of 10mm sheet alloy, bolted directly to the chassis rails. A TMR Customs transmission crossmember supports the TC with a JB conversions super short SYE, Tom Woods DS, Novak shift cable. I already had a 2.5" lift, 1.25" BL, 1"MM and adjustable trackbars installed to make it all possible. Running 35"s.

There are still a few tweaks to make, then off to the Forrest to test flex it.

Sent from my iPad using JeepForum
Did you need to modify the tub at all to tuck the TC all the way up? Looking at doing something similar and have many similar mods.
 
#1,087 ·
I have a flat belly skid and I did not need to modify the tub and have about another 1" before the trans makes contact. I did need to cut the exhaust mount off the transmission mount and mount a bushing on the frame rail and attach to the exhaust, I just reused a bushing similar to the rear portion of the exhaust to accomplish this and its held up so far. This is required because the stock bar that comes off of the exhaust is at such an extreme angle when lifting the drivetrain this high binds in the stock transmission mounts bushing creating a constant stress. There are other options but all include cutting and welding from what I could see. Another issue is a 1" MML is only going to do so much. My 1"MMl and stock Motor mounts are tweaked so much, It's causing a bit of vibration. My thought is to machine a new mml block that is angled slightly to alleviate the stress of the higher than normal transfer cases. Basically its a lot more work than just having a skid plate 1" lower. But I am happy with what I've got for where i wheel. The vibration is not too bad where its uncomfortable.
 
#1,089 ·
What you did would help... heat and bend?
 
#1,091 ·
I've read the whole thread and I don't see many people going with the UCF no body lift required TT. I ordered one but it's going to be a while until my TJ is back on the road. Do I need a MML? Is there anything I should be aware of? My OME lift was too much for the stock drive line and I ordered an AA SYE. It's hard to do research when work blocks all Jeep related websites.
 
#1,092 ·
FarFire70 said:
Did you need to modify the tub at all to tuck the TC all the way up? Looking at doing something similar and have many similar mods.
nah it all fit in there quite well, I think it's the difference in doing the TMR cross member instead of trying to reuse the OEM transmission mount. There is still quite a bit of room around it to the tub... Possibly could have got away with no BL... But that's in there for other reasons too.

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#1,094 ·
Cheers, not sure of the aluminium grade, probably nothing special, it was just what my metal guy had left over from a job so we used that. It's not really structural as the TMR Customs cross member does the job of supporting the TC etc... So it's really just to act as a skid to protect the Under belly. The Cross member is great, it does transmit a few more vibes the the OEM transmission mount and has to be welded to the chassis rails, but it achieves a flat belly with less theoretical lift and now I can drop the skid without having to support the drivetrain. I reckon I could remove my BL and still have room...

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#1,095 ·
Thanks. My plan is to do the exact same thing as you. But I've been a little nervous about the aluminum skid. I realize the cross member is holding the drivetrain, but I get nervous if I land hard on a rock with the skid. I don't want the skid to bend up and cause damage or even just to bend up and contact the cross member.
 
#1,099 ·
Yes the TMR cross member has bushes at each end before it mounts to the chassis rails. I can't see how tying the skid to the cross member really add any stiffness given these bushes or any other mount, the whole point is for it to move to minimise vibrations.

The 10mm alloy skid has 6 bolts to tie the chassis rails together in that horizontal plane, acting as a massive brace, adding the crossmember to it does nothing IMO.

If your worried about the skid bending on a hard landing then either weld on stiffening bars or put a bend/fold in the plates front and rear edges. You could do the skid in steel or alloy, steel may be easier to fold in stiffening or weld?

Sent from my iPad using JeepForum
 
#1,101 ·
Yes the TMR cross member has bushes at each end before it mounts to the chassis rails. I can't see how tying the skid to the cross member really add any stiffness given these bushes or any other mount, the whole point is for it to move to minimise vibrations.

The 10mm alloy skid has 6 bolts to tie the chassis rails together in that horizontal plane, acting as a massive brace, adding the crossmember to it does nothing IMO.

If your worried about the skid bending on a hard landing then either weld on stiffening bars or put a bend/fold in the plates front and rear edges. You could do the skid in steel or alloy, steel may be easier to fold in stiffening or weld?

Sent from my iPad using JeepForum
If you question the value of the cross member bracing the skid plate we will just have to disagree on that.
 
#1,100 ·
From what I worked out the advantage of the TMR crossmember is that because the transmission mount is not under the TC but instead as bushes at each end of the cross member, this effectively has a lower overall height, allowing the flat skid and the TC not to be pushed as high into the tunnel. This then helps driveline angles as the TC is sitting as low as possible but still just above the bottom of the chassis rails for the skid to bolt up to.

The very slight trade off is that the bushes do transmit very slightly more vibes than the OEM transmission mount. But I can live with that for more clearance.

Sent from my iPad using JeepForum
 
#1,102 ·
FWIW, I finished my tummy tuck. For those considering it... Total cost about $3,200, including a 4" lift.

UCF Ultra High Skid, about 3 hundy
Tera Flex Super Short SYE, 2 1/2 hundy
Tom Woods driveshaft, 3 hundy
Currie adj Rear arms, top and bottom, about 6 ...
Rokmen adj front arms, top and bottom, about 6
JKS adj front track, about 2
RC adj rear track, about 1
Skyjacker soft coils, about 3
Skyjacker hydros (soft), about 2
Hockypucks for bump stops, about ten bucks
New trans and motor mounts, about 70 bucks
Brown Dog right motor mount bracket, 2
JKS MML, about 80 bucks
Extended front brake lines, about 80 bucks
Novak cable shifter..2

While I was at it... Currie Antirock front... I dont remember the cost. 4 hundy I think
Already installed years prior was a 1" BL.

I used factory motor mounts and tranny mount for low vibs. Had to hammer the tub a couple places for clearance. Took me a month working on it weekends. Have plenty of beer or your favorite libation. Music in the background and most of all patience. It was very frustrating at times. Lots of test fitting and moving parts that weight several hundred pounds. Again, fwiw, keep the massive clearance gain as the goal and be patient. It's hard mentally to hammer a perfectly good jeep tub... Keep in mind how nice it will.be when finished.
And Oh Yeah, it's nice.

Am I done? Not yet. Still fabbing up a trans / engine skid, installing a Derale trans cooler today.. It will end when I am to old to turn wrenches... and at 53, I think I've got another 10 years wrenching left, God Willing.
 
#1,103 ·
Google took me here as I'm researching for something along the lines of a tuck. Did a quick search in this thread and didn't find many talking about the Clayton skid. I'm going with a 4" LA kit from Clayton and figured while I'm at it, install their skid system to replace the literal shovel that is currently on my TJ.

The Clayton site says I shouldn't need a BL on my non-Rubicon TJ, but I've read a thread somewhere that said they needed a BL and MML in order for it to work. I mean, I'd rather not do a BL because 4" is almost to much lift IMO, but, I'll do it if I have to.

Anyone running a Clayton setup?
 
#1,104 ·
Google took me here as I'm researching for something along the lines of a tuck. Did a quick search in this thread and didn't find many talking about the Clayton skid. I'm going with a 4" LA kit from Clayton and figured while I'm at it, install their skid system to replace the literal shovel that is currently on my TJ.

The Clayton site says I shouldn't need a BL on my non-Rubicon TJ, but I've read a thread somewhere that said they needed a BL and MML in order for it to work. I mean, I'd rather not do a BL because 4" is almost to much lift IMO, but, I'll do it if I have to.

Anyone running a Clayton setup?
I don't have experience with the Clayton but I have the Rokmen high clearance skid (2.5" higher than stock) and only needed a 1/2" BL, most of the other brands said I'd need 1.25" and I didn't want that high. So I went with the Currie aluminum fitted pucks and had them machined down to 1/2". Worked great on my Rubicon and most people can't even tell I have a BL at first look.

~
 
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