[zukIzzy]

Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat

Thanks for the easy to understand explanation!

Is there a shock that you would recommend to someone who wanted to tinker with tuning their own shocks? Something fairly simple but well supported, like the Holley carburetor of shocks?

Fox 2.0" remote res. great shock easy to work on well supported reasonable price on parts.

[Necromancer_tat]

Originally Posted by zukIzzy

Fox 2.0" remote res. great shock easy to work on well supported reasonable price on parts.

Thanks for the suggestion, I ran those before in the past and they rode really well.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by Necromancer_tat

Thanks for the suggestion, I ran those before in the past and they rode really well.

You've learned nothing from this thread, have you?

[jorhay]

well I've been running a set of 3" springs from 4WD Hardware for about 6-7 years now, I suppose there's a better spring out there. But honestly I don't know what to change it to,

thanks again!

[zukIzzy]

Originally Posted by jorhay

well I've been running a set of 3" springs from 4WD Hardware for about 6-7 years now, I suppose there's a better spring out there. But honestly I don't know what to change it to,

thanks again!

A good segway into spring theory again.

Before you buy high dollar susp you need to know what you want to do with the rig. With each use comes a different set of needs. Comp crawling you wanna be low and don’t' care mush about ride. Jeep speed or jeep speed wanna be you need some up travel and want to control body roll but don't mind the harshness a race type susp brings. Most of us fit middle of the road we wanna beat our friend to the trail, School everybody on the hard bypasses and be the first one at the fire for a cold one. Then the next morning we want to climb in drive home in street stock comfort and reliability with the AC on.

Back to reality. Most of use want 50%/50% up and down travel and as long a shock as we can fit.

Here is when you have to use a tape measure and do some math to figure what you want the lift to be. Then use the spring that gives you that much height at normal load. Use the internees and guys who have done it before to get the best idea you can as to how much lift each spring will give. Once installed and loaded you have to decide if you are happy or want to start horse trading to get a heavier or lighter spring for you use.

Once you get here you are done with springs. Only swap springs to get more height with more load or vice versa. The spring does not give bottoming resistance, If you think it does go hit a small g-out with no shocks and see how that goes for you (not really don't do it) Yes you can spring a rig enough to not bottom but this is a completely uncontrolled action and it will ride like a tractor. Lets use the right spring and control the action with energy conversion that we can control and fine tune. This way we get a nice ride and control in all conditions.

Keep in mind you should never bind a coil spring or stretch it and it needs to be long enough that with your susp at full droop it is still seated on the mount.

Now you can buy your shocks and mount them to use all the travel but never bind or rub they should not be the limit strap and they should not be the bump stop.

Wayne

[Necromancer_tat]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

You've learned nothing from this thread, have you?

I have learned all kinds of things from this thread. And I've also been slightly frustrated as well. You know I could ask a million questions from 37 different angles. I appreciate good advice from people that know what they're talking about, and why they are talking about it. Some people offer good advice, but they don't have a clue, and cannot explain why their advice is good... they're just regurgitating things that someone smarter than themselves told them. Some people offer good advice, and then they can break that advice down into easily digestable bits of information that the average person can understand. I would like to see this thread really dive into the technical side of shock tech, get into compression and rebound rates, inertia activated valving, progressive rates, nitrogen charged, air springs, and various other set ups possibly including cantilever set ups. I'd like to learn more about how smooth body shocks and coil overs differ from ORI struts and Bypass shocks.

Is it Friday night again? Do we have a scheduled bikering match planned for each friday that you don't go wheeling for the weekend that I don't know about? If so I'm cool with it, but we should prolly do it in one of our own threads and not Mr. Waynes, as he's been pretty informative and helpful so far.

[Garza]

Spend your Friday with these, Blaine's busy working on my rig

Coilovers 1

Coilovers 2

Airshox

ORI Struts

More Strut

[Necromancer_tat]

Originally Posted by Garza

Spend your Friday with these, Blaine's busy working on my rig

Coilovers 1

Coilovers 2

Airshox

ORI Struts

More Strut

I've read those before, I also belong to PBB. Good luck with your rig, I'm sure he will get it sorted out nicely.

The links you posted are kinda what I was expecting this thread to be, but hopefully this thread will end up more tailored to Jeep TJ specific.

[-sean-]

It all just depends on what you want/need your shocks to do. Here are two extreme examples, we for the most part fall somewhere in the middle.

McMillen tuning session. This video does not do justice to the actual size of the whoops you are seeing.(keep an eye on the roof line)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyAIm50pHAo&list=PLCE5A844E76D958A8&index=15&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyAIm50pHAo&list=PLCE5A844E76D958A8&index=15&feature=plpp_video

Good ol' George, my hero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKrjslEs4yo&feature=autoplay&list=PLCE5A844E76D958A8&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKrjslEs4yo&feature=autoplay&list=PLCE5A844E76D958A8&playnext=1

[TJdualsport]

shock critique??? fox 2.0 resi pro series 8 way adjustable. 20/90valving stock style bumpstops. setting 8 aprox 50mph give or take 10mph this was taking right after i got the shocks a couple years ago. for me looking at it, i think i need more compression and less rebound. it doesnt look bad but could be better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMswdgGBLVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMswdgGBLVg

im not sure what to do with the valving with the clickers. I do have a pair of 2.0 resi foxes with no clickers that i may have you valve for me. its my understanding that a proper valved standard 2.0 will flow better and can be better dialed in compared to the clicker adjustables since the clicker restricts flow. i also have a set of 2.5 king double bypass that ive been thinking about revalving for the jeep. they are currently on my cummins... needless to say the valving is a little different lol

here how she is now shock wise with bilstein bumps up front. the axle is now full trussed and gusseted since that video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23KzhF8qG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23KzhF8qG4

[zukIzzy]

Terminology
I use a lot of my own terminology to describe things the best I can I will explain some of that now. let me know if there is something you were wondering.

Event: pretty easy a single bump, hole or turn. anything that make the suspension react big or small. Every ride can be described as a long chain of events first we must get the suspension to absorb (convert the kinetic energy to heat) a single event then we must make the suspension get ready to absorb the next event in a controlled enough manner that is does not cause a micro event of its own but fast enough to make use of every possible inch of available travel for a given event.

Slow speed event: an event that makes the shock shaft move slowly enough that it does not open the shims or opens them very slightly. nothing to do with speed of the car.

Example, driving 55 on a 2 lane and you drive thru a gradual dip that makes the rig bottom but there is no bump per say. Or a turn which leans the rig is a slow speed event. Or crawling your front left onto a huge rock.

High speed event: an event that causes the shims to open in order to flow oil and convert kinetic to heat. has nothing to do wit the speed of the car.

Example, diving 20 mph and you hit a speed bump, sharp freeway joints or freeze thaw bumps. landing from a jump. what were you thinking its a Tj keep the wheels on the ground.

Small Event compliance: the ability for he shock to absorb those small high speed events without transferring the jolt into the cabin.

Large event bottoming resistance: You got this one right?

donkey kick: when you hit a bump the back end hits and tries to fly up in the air and pass the front.

tire rebound: think of a basket ball if you slam it on the ground hard it bounces high right? tires are very similar.

Preload: the amount of compression you have to put on the springs before you put weight on the em to get the vehicle to obtain ride height. you won't use this unless you put coil overs on your TJ

Help me help you what else did i say that you were wondering HUH???

[zukIzzy]

Originally Posted by TJdualsport

shock critique??? fox 2.0 resi pro series 8 way adjustable. 20/90valving stock style bumpstops. setting 8 aprox 50mph give or take 10mph this was taking right after i got the shocks a couple years ago. for me looking at it, i think i need more compression and less rebound. it doesnt look bad but could be better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMswdgGBLVg


im not sure what to do with the valving with the clickers. I do have a pair of 2.0 resi foxes with no clickers that i may have you valve for me. its my understanding that a proper valved standard 2.0 will flow better and can be better dialed in compared to the clicker adjustables since the clicker restricts flow. i also have a set of 2.5 king double bypass that ive been thinking about revalving for the jeep. they are currently on my cummins... needless to say the valving is a little different lol

Not gonna get into the critique from that view I have an opinion but....... you only get so much for nothing plus there is more to it then that.

I don't care for clickers the rule of thumb is the res hose and fitting should be the same ID as the shaft is. nobody does it cause it is too hard to package and we just deal with the little bad habit it produces. with that said you don't want to squeeze an already too small hose any more if you can help it. if they were mine I would get rid of them, if they were a customers we would open them all the way and get him riding well then use a click or 2 if he added more weight then usual.

send the 2.0"s to me or Blaine and we will fix you up

As far as the Bypasses I am happy to do them but only in a tuning day where I can make changes and watch what happens and fine tune from there. I have not worked too much with TJs and bypasses and while you would think they are easier they are not.

thanks
Wayne

[zukIzzy]

Originally Posted by Garza

Spend your Friday with these, Blaine's busy working on my rig

Coilovers 1

Coilovers 2

Airshox

ORI Struts

More Strut

Read those but Please consider how many shocks the authors have tuned. Also when working with a tuner please consider how many solid axles let alone TJs he has worked on.

I am not selling myself use who you want just remember you don't go the a Honda tuner to get your 4.0 worked on. While he could do the work there are little tricks learned that he would not know.

[55willystruck]

Originally Posted by zukIzzy

out boarding brings the wheel rate closer to the shock rate over one wheel events making the valving in the single shock on that side more adept at handling the event. Other wise you have to be really stiff on axle events to handle the one wheel events adequately.

Since you asked, and you mentioned it here and because I just did this for the new shocks, I'm kinda curious on this. Not sure I'm fully grasping the concept just yet-let me see if I'm close...

With shock in standard/factory position, the wheel is further out and the leverage effect of the tire moves such that the shock has to work harder then to handle the "event", more so than if it were out boarded and more closely directly over the event itself-not sure I'm wording that right, but moving the shock closer to the tire helps the shock more so than being in factory position-is that close? Or I guess the shock is allowed to do it's job easier then at the event as opposed to working from a distance? In simpler terms, grabbing a weight and lifting at full arm length outstretched vs. grabbing same weight in close to the body? Maybe I'm totally out to lunch, it's been a long day... Sorry for the dumb questions...

I've read many comments on out boarding for various reasons and often hear the "driveway wiggle" has been removed. Just as an example. With recent comments here on rear spring relocation (which I also just did in addition to the out board) how much effect is both mods having on the shock itself as opposed to factory position? Straitening the spring isn't changing the rate of the spring, but changing the way the spring is able to react due to more natural position as opposed to slightly compressed in factory mount. A couple guys have mentioned noting more ride handling change from spring position vs. out board. If you straitened springs first and out boarded later, would you notice as much effect from the shock as you would if you out boarded first and/or straitened at that time?

Again, I apologize for the dumb questions-your comments above make perfect sense, just trying to understand the "why" behind it.

Thanks again,

Best of Luck,

Mike

[TJdualsport]

cool man we will be in touch. im gonna see if i can get the shocks dropped of at blaines as soon as i can.