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Unread 10-01-2013, 02:22 PM   #1276
krughzn
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Did you powder coat those semi gloss black?
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Unread 04-26-2014, 02:20 AM   #1277
PanzerTank
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How significant do you feel that the rear coil spring relocation kit is? How much of a difference in handling and drivability do you think the mod creates? I have 5.5" Tri Angulated rear suspension. Do you think this relocation is as critical or will preform as well on such a set up?
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Unread 04-26-2014, 08:23 AM   #1278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerTank
How significant do you feel that the rear coil spring relocation kit is? How much of a difference in handling and drivability do you think the mod creates? I have 5.5" Tri Angulated rear suspension. Do you think this relocation is as critical or will preform as well on such a set up?
Having the rear springs in a vertical orientation results in them producing the actual spring rate with which they were engineered.

In a bowed orientation, it greatly reduces their actual spring rate--causing the rear to be sort of mushy.

You'll get some lift by running them straight. First, some of the upper relocation brackets result in more lift. Second, your springs will run at actual spring rates.

AEV relocators gave my TJ as much as 2" between the bracket and the spring rate. TnT Customs bracket is shorter than the AEV.

I haven't read this thread all the way through. So, there might be other products referenced here that you can use.
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Unread 04-26-2014, 10:20 AM   #1279
J03_TJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerTank
How significant do you feel that the rear coil spring relocation kit is? How much of a difference in handling and drivability do you think the mod creates? I have 5.5" Tri Angulated rear suspension. Do you think this relocation is as critical or will preform as well on such a set up?
Hope some more people chime in on this for you. It's been a little while, but I don't recall any real drastic change in the ride after doing mine.
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Unread 04-26-2014, 12:36 PM   #1280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J03_TJ
Hope some more people chime in on this for you. It's been a little while, but I don't recall any real drastic change in the ride after doing mine.
The difference noticed will depend in the degree of bowing.

A 4" lift, with a belly-up transfer skid plate, and the rear pinion angle corrected will bow the springs quite a bit.

If they are softer spring rate springs, they loose a good amount of spring rate with that amount of bowing.

The less the bow, the less the reduction in spring rate.
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Unread 04-26-2014, 03:22 PM   #1281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman
The difference noticed will depend in the degree of bowing. A 4" lift, with a belly-up transfer skid plate, and the rear pinion angle corrected will bow the springs quite a bit. If they are softer spring rate springs, they loose a good amount of spring rate with that amount of bowing. The less the bow, the less the reduction in spring rate.
I have 4" currie front springs and taller 4" Currie LJ rear springs on my TJ, also have a TT that hangs 1.25" below the frame. My springs were pretty bowed. I'd say in my opinion the change in ride was subtle at best, although I was only on the Currie springs for a month or two before I moved the perches. But I do remember after relocating kind of going all that for that? I was pleased that they look better now without the bowing for sure, makes me kind of proud looking at them. Lol.
I'm going to be putting my 4" OME springs back on this summer, they were fairly stiff and gave more like a 5" lift. Now that my perches are relocated will be interesting to see if the ride is as stiff again with those springs or if the relocated perches don't do much with them as you suggest being that they are kind of a high rate.
2/3 of the people on here say its pretty hard to notice different spring rates on our jeeps. Kind of makes me question why a change to the spring rate via straightening the bow would be noticeable and changing spring rates directly with different brand springs is claimed to be not noticeable?
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Unread 04-26-2014, 03:34 PM   #1282
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I question whether the amount of spring rate change is enough to really be felt. It sounds cool to say that, but is that really want is happening? Overall the variation in total spring rates for available TJ springs is really not that great. The small fraction of that overall rate that is changed by straightening the springs seems like a rounding error. I'm not disputing that there may be a different feel from straightening the spring buckets, but I'm curious whether it really is a different suspsension geometry change rather than a spring rate difference?
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Unread 04-27-2014, 12:51 AM   #1283
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With a softer spring, it makes a bigger difference. For example, light duty OME rear springs bowed vs not can make the difference between frequently hitting your bumpstops or not.

With a stiffer spring, the difference won't be as great unless your loads are very heavy.
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Unread 04-27-2014, 01:16 AM   #1284
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I gotta say, when I fixed my rear springs I feel like I noticed a pretty big difference, mainly in body roll while turning. The body stays a lot flatter in turns. I didn't use relocators, just cut off the stock perches and moved them.
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Unread 04-27-2014, 09:09 AM   #1285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffgnar View Post
I question whether the amount of spring rate change is enough to really be felt. It sounds cool to say that, but is that really want is happening? Overall the variation in total spring rates for available TJ springs is really not that great. The small fraction of that overall rate that is changed by straightening the springs seems like a rounding error. I'm not disputing that there may be a different feel from straightening the spring buckets, but I'm curious whether it really is a different suspsension geometry change rather than a spring rate difference?
This will fix things right up. I was contacted by someone who only wanted the rear springs stood straight up to fix his right quality. He said the bowed springs were too harsh and kicked the back of the rig around.

I stood them up by relocating the stock perches and he reports that the ride is much better, not as harsh and he really likes it.

I did it as a test because I didn't believe it would make much difference.
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Unread 04-27-2014, 11:16 AM   #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffgnar View Post
I question whether the amount of spring rate change is enough to really be felt. It sounds cool to say that, but is that really want is happening? Overall the variation in total spring rates for available TJ springs is really not that great. The small fraction of that overall rate that is changed by straightening the springs seems like a rounding error. I'm not disputing that there may be a different feel from straightening the spring buckets, but I'm curious whether it really is a different suspsension geometry change rather than a spring rate difference?
The way a vehicle ultimately performs, handles and feels is based on Wheel Rates and not Spring Rates. Wheel rate calculations use the installed ratios or motion ratios, not spring rates exclusively, to ultimately achieve the "corner stiffness" that affects the vehicle dynamics.

Moving the same spring to different locations relative to the control arm mount points or changing the distance the spring is from the tire's contact patch changes the Wheel Rate in potentially the same way that changing a spring rate would with regard to "corner stiffness".

A 100# spring rate change can be a 10# wheel rate change when the motion ratios are considered.

Standing the spring up changes the motion ratio.
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Unread 04-27-2014, 06:46 PM   #1287
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
This will fix things right up. I was contacted by someone who only wanted the rear springs stood straight up to fix his right quality. He said the bowed springs were too harsh and kicked the back of the rig around.

I stood them up by relocating the stock perches and he reports that the ride is much better, not as harsh and he really likes it.

I did it as a test because I didn't believe it would make much difference.
This is exactly the reason I'm even considering moving the spring perches. The body roll is already significant with triangulated rear suspension on the rubicon express 5.5" lift.
If this mod would address body roll without making a harsh handling rear I'd be interested. With all the mods out there I'm aite hesitant to do something that might have a negative result.
Rokman has a new weld on perch said not to add or later lift at all anyone have any info on these parts?
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Unread 04-27-2014, 07:47 PM   #1288
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Less sway in turns, and it got rid of that annoying rear end kick when turning and going over a dip. Not a single negative affect. Also less bucking for higher speed desert runs.
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Unread 04-27-2014, 10:18 PM   #1289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerTank View Post
This is exactly the reason I'm even considering moving the spring perches. The body roll is already significant with triangulated rear suspension on the rubicon express 5.5" lift.
If this mod would address body roll without making a harsh handling rear I'd be interested. With all the mods out there I'm aite hesitant to do something that might have a negative result.
Rokman has a new weld on perch said not to add or later lift at all anyone have any info on these parts?
If you brought your rig to me and asked me to do one thing and one thing only to improve the ride quality, tighten up the sway, and slow down the rear kick over bumps, my answer would not be simply rotating the springs to vertical.
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Unread 04-27-2014, 10:20 PM   #1290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine
If you brought your rig to me and asked me to do one thing and one thing only to improve the ride quality, tighten up the sway, and slow down the rear kick over bumps, my answer would not be simply rotating the springs to vertical.
I'm curious, what would that one thing be? Outboard the rear shocks?
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