[RokleM]

Purpose for this thread is two fold:
1) To record my own information and pass information to others that may be starting out. I've browsed many a forums looking for information from the masses. Some may agree, some may not, but most of what I'm doing hopefully is what the "general consensus" thinks is "ok".
2) Gather any suggestions as I'm going through this, considering I have very little vehicle maintenance history on this ride, am personally inexperienced in any of this, let alone body work, suspension, rust, or any of the other crazy things I have and will tackle in the coming months. I hadn't even changed oil before until I purchased this vehicle. Don't hate, it's just a fact

Long story short, purchased my 2000 TJ about 9 months ago. Previous single owner was in PA according to carfax. Vehicle was bone stock:



Phase one started around the holidays last year as the twins were born. It's not my daily driver, so I had the luxury to do it very slowly in the garage. Phase one included (but not limited to):
-- Suspension/motor/body lift
-- Removal of stock hardware (rear bumper, front bumper cans, tow bar, steps, etc)
-- New bumper, Nates4x4 (swingarm tire carrier, tow, winch points)
-- New (old) meat/wheels

Some pictures/details here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/7234838-post2344.html







...
So now we start phase 2. Increased armor, cleanup from an almost decade old vehicle with unknown maintenance, rust work, CB, etc.

Everything below was the last 3 or 4 days...


New rocker guards from AtoZFabrication:




Took off the stock molding across the bottom, and drilled out the attachment piece and rivets:


CB installed but not fully tweaked. At some point I'd like to replace/beef up the roll bar, and wanted my CB overhead (easier to hear without needing a speaker). At the very front would be somewhat of a pain creating a new overhead mounting system let alone running the wires, so I went right above/behind me (by the sound bar). It seems very easy to hear given the proximity, even at 50 with the top off. I can hear plenty of chatter on 19, so I assume it's working decently, but certainly needs fine tuning.





Last but not least is an entire cleanup of the frame, tub, etc as much as possible. This is general cleanup as it may or may not have been done in the past at all, but mostly for rust identification, removal, and future avoidance.

I cleaned the entire outside of the body with dawn. BMW and/or big car geeks know this is a very harsh soap that rips off just about everything, even wax. The body will be claybar'd and re-waxed with multiple coats of Zaino. I picked up a pen and rattle can of paint that should match, so I'll try to touch up any areas at the same time. I also have rust started in a couple areas that I need to analyze (no pictures, I'll get those in the next couple of days). Specifically, on the hinges of the front windshield and the fender flares in the front. I _MIGHT_ be able to remove the hinges and try to clean them up (looking for some advice here when I get to that stage) or just replace them. On the fenders, I probably need to see if it's surface up top or if it's going all the way through. On this location on the TJ, it seems that it starts underneath, and by the time you see it on the top you're out of luck. Again, maybe pictures will help. At some point way down the road I'll likely get some tube fenders, so I need to at minimum stop/slow the progression for now. Again, I'll get some outside body pictures of the rust areas later.

Cleaned up:



In addition to the outside, I'm working on the inside as well. Who knows if the carpet was ever removed, so the first step was to remove all of that and hose it out. It's kind of funny and amusing the first time you have the experience of hosing down the INSIDE of your vehicle. There was a good amount of debris inside, but overall I see minimal issues. The back looks perfect, no rust anywhere. The front drivers side looks like it has a very very small mount of surface rust. They had a large, high walled, plastic mat installed when I picked up the vehicle. I assume this was the major savior here. The passenger side did not have one, and in turn has some rust there. I haven't had time to start working on it, but I think it's minor and mostly surface. The drain hole is the worst spot. I THINK my plan for this is as follows:
1) Remove the rust I can via some means (wire brush, scrubbing pad, etc)
2) Use a rust converter on it (heard wal-mart has a good spray one), which turns iron oxide to iron tannate (which shouldn't spread)
3) Paint/prime
4) Determine if I want to "line" my tub with anything instead of re-installing the carpet. Looks like it can be done for less than $100, and I have part of the work done already.

... image limit ... on to post 2 ...

[RokleM]

Back is good:

Drivers side is in pretty good shape:

Passenger needs the most work:




Last but not least, the real issue... Underside and frame. The is absolutely rust on parts underneath, the question is how bad is it. I beat on the entire frame with a mallet, and luckily I don't hear or feel any soft spots. For some reason, the driver's side body and frame is slightly more rusty than the passenger side. I can't explain this one.

Prep work completed so far:
1) Ordered POR-15
2) Used a pressure washer to get out as much crud off the frame, body, and other components under the vehicle.
3) Took a hose, followed by a pressure washer to the inside of the frame. It did NOT flow out clean right off the bat (as assumed), and took a good 2-3 minutes of pressure washer through the holds before it looked good. I know for a fact there are some rust chunks floating in there that I can't exactly figure out how to remove.
4) Started documenting the frame/body damage. Good not only for suggestions, but also after it's done I'll be able to go back if I have issues with an area to see exactly where it had started, how bad it was, and evaluate how it may have (or not have) changed.

Things I'm not sure of:
1) Drain holes. I've read many a places that the stock box frame is missing drain holes in the middle long section (before and after the axles seems fine). Many suggest a 1/2" hole towards the back axle somewhere. This seems to make sense, but drilling the the frame never has sounded like a good idea. However, it also makes sense that all the rubble and water stored up in there is causing far more damage than I could (hopefully????)
2) There is no good way to fix the inside of the frame, period. The only good internal frame is one from a southern state, not near an ocean, that has been in a garage, not driven anywhere up north, and was protected early on and yearly. Yeah, not my vehicle. It seems like most recommend spraying rust converter in there to get rid of everything you can. I have to look at the products, and how exactly to do this. Many also spray a oil or water repellent after that, but again that doesn't' do a ton of good if the proper draining isn't there.
3) The frame itself. POR-15 seems to be THE answer for this. I'll get off as much as I can with a wire brush, then go through their process. It won't be perfect, I can't get every inch of the frame, I don't currently see myself doing a body-off restoration (way way way beyond my skill level and would really need help), so it's not going to be perfect. It will however be better than it is now.
4) The "everything else" scenario:
--- I have some minor rust on one of the body by the mounts, more on another. I think I can just POR-15 these as well, with the body slightly hoisted and mounts temporarily removed. That seems to make the most sense to me. I'll also check out the rest of the body while I'm at it and treat accordingly. I see some rust on the lines were things were joined. The last thing I want to do is see the mud UNDER my vehicle from inside, like so many older jeeps.
--- I have other components that have some rust on them (tranny pan is the worst), so what should I do about those? Do I pull those parts all the way out and work on them (extreme pain and possibly beyond my skill/time level right now)? Fix the rust I can (scrape, rust-convert, prime, paint)?

... on to post 3 ...

[RokleM]

That's the end of my rambling, the rest is pictures of the frame starting on the front passenger heading back and around. If you have specific suggestions or see problem areas, let me know.



THE worst spot on the vehicle by far. A good portion of it was where the step was mounted.

This is the bad body mount rust spot.


What is this peeling off? Some sort of poor stock protection?

[SkyHigh]

My sahara looked alot like that when I bought it. I ended up using a flap wheel and grinder and sanded/ground off all the rust. The wire brush just didnt get rid of enough of it for me. I know POR15 neutralizes it, and you can go right over rust, but I felt better about it doing it the hard way....and I plan to keep this one for awhile.

I pulled the entire suspension as well, so it was down for a solid month or so while I took my time. No big deal, mine sits in a garage 350 sum days a year.

[Apex]

grinder with a flap disc is your best bet for removing as much rust as possible.


Good luck

[outlanderbz]

I am looking forward to following your build thread. I purchased a 2002 wrangler sport about a month ago and also never changed oil before, I always knew i could but never bothered, heh. I never owned a used car before, always had a new car. I have always wanted a Jeep Wrangler but not as my daily driver.

I have already learned a lot from these forums and like subscribing to threads of others that have become new Jeep owners like me.

Mine has been in IL its whole life so I am battling the rust issue just like you, sounds and looks like we have about the same amount of rust going on. I look forward to your progress on that front

[Weeeee]

I purchased my 2000 TJ back in March and I have similar rust issues I need to take care of. Great thread, I am looking forward to following it.

[RnEmOvr]

i think you need few more pics lol,

[mil]

Sweet, I am going to follow this one. Mods look good so far though. Funny thing is I bought my jeep a few months ago, Im in PA and it came from OHIO.....lol opposite of you. I think some old dude had it or it was a repo. I got my 06 with only 14k on it! I look forward to your progress.

[flexsaharatj]

looks a lot like mine! nice jeep!

[RokleM]

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

... I know POR15 neutralizes it, and you can go right over rust, but I felt better about it doing it the hard way....and I plan to keep this one for awhile.

I know exactly what you mean! I know I'm not going to get it all, but I want to do what I can to ensure I'm not redoing all the work (and having to remove the POR-15 at the same time) less than a year down the road. I'll get off as much as I can and go from there.

Originally Posted by RnEmOvr

i think you need few more pics lol,

Actually, I do (not to single you out), and I'm going to derail this thread for a minute (as I didn't make any progress last night anyway).

This is a problem on this forum, as well as many others regardless of the hobby involved (same issue in remote control, saltwater reefkeeping, etc). As a new person, coming here is like reading a foreign language. Acronyms. Technical part names I don't know not being a automotive guy (I'm lucky I was into remote control racing years ago or I'd REALLY be lost). Abbreviations for vendors and products (and good luck searching using those abbreviations because you'll just find another thousand references). Slang. Brief/poor descriptions without pictures and/or full information to understand the situation. A master of knowledge jeep owner speaking to another master of knowledge jeep owner about an issue (and somehow we're suppose to decipher that information). Post after post after post of issues, with people offering a few suggestions (with plenty of vague or outright wrong information), with the original posters rarely coming back with a full details (pictures or otherwise) on the fix.

In turn you end up with a whole lot of confusion for new guys, and 9/10th's worthless search data.

It's kind of hard to do, but think of yourself as a new jeep owner, erase all info you have about your jeep, and read SLOWLY just the first half a dozen threads you find. It seriously is like trying to decipher another language. I understand completely the confusion I have on a daily basis (although it's getting better with a TON of research and reading)... as I'm a network engineer. I start talking pingy pingy and peoples eyes roll back into their heads, they start drooling, and their heads start spinning all poltergeist style. Those victims of mine are the "us" newfish of "here"

Again, not to single you out, but that is exactly why I start threads like this and you see posters like the ones above with similar issues joining in. I'll also immediately post if I screw something up, so others don't make the same mistake. Share the info people

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled rust hole

[RokleM]

Here's the external rust I've found:

Passenger glass hinge (looks like the hinge itself and surface was covered up at some point):


Driver hinge is worse:


Half dozen or so dings in the front:


Driver fender and under wheel well look great (ironic since this was the "bad" side on the frame/body underneath):




Passenger side is where the issue is:






I would imagine on the hinges I can just remove them and attempt to fix them via grinding, rust convert, recover. At worst if I REALLY screw them up I can replace them with new black ones.

The front I'm not sure yet. Possibly scuff/grind the surface, repaint.

Driver fender is good, but I'll check with further detail.

Passenger fender I'm not sure either. It looks like there are two pieces of metal underneath that make up the fender, and I don't know if they come apart. In turn, I don't know how bad the damage is between those two. Really need suggestions for the underside and top here.

[bandit455]

the frame looked just like mine, broke out the grinder and got it to bare metal in most places, all the bubbles everywhere else and painted/primed it with rustoleum stops rust primer and flat black, its easy to touch it up whent you scrape rocks along the frame.

[RokleM]

Well, I got it all clay-bar'd. For those that haven't done it before, it's a pretty easy process. Tons of videos out there how to do it.

In short:
1) Spray down the area with a lubricant of some sort (or very very very very mild polish).
2) Take a very small amount of clay, and slowly work your way across the body. It's not hard to get use to, but there's a sort of art to it. You can feel and hear the clay grabbing and removing pieces of debris as it float across the paint.
3) Mush up the clay, repeat until smooth.

On the scatches on the outside of the body that were metal deep I used a small pen/brush replacement from one of the local big box auto shops (O'Reilly I believe it was). They have matching paint for our Jeeps, looks close enough.

I also fixed the front grill section. The largest one was maybe 3-4mm wide, so pretty small. I took a very fine piece of sandpaper and gently scraped away the rust. Then I used the whole "pencil in a screwdriver" technique. In short, stick an eraser part of a pencil in a drill and slowly run it on the body. It works as a great polisher for small spots. Last step was a clean wipe and applying a little paint. I'll take a picture and see how they look tomorrow.

[RokleM]

Touch up I did yesterday looks good. Most of the places you can't really tell, so no real reason to take any pictures. It's not art, but it will certainly do the trick.

My next issue is the window hinges. I have one off the vehicle, but I can't figure out how to get the pins out and separate the pieces (I can see plenty of rust in the hinge itself). There is some sort of minor adhesive, so you have to apply the slightest amount of leverage to get the hinge itself off. I also have a small amount of rust on the back side, so I'll get that too.