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Unread 01-20-2007, 08:08 PM   #1
mynyrd
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Rear Brakes

I just redid my rear brakes on my 98 TJ. The reason I did the brakes is the fronts would lock up but it seemed the rears were not working.

New wheel cylinders, shoes, hardware, drums adjusted up just short of dragging. I still am not happy with the rears performance its like the proportioning valve is not letting enough pressure to the rears.

Has anyone else had/fixed this problem.

Thankls for any help.

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Unread 01-20-2007, 10:05 PM   #2
Stu Olson
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If your rears lock, you'll find the back end of your Jeep with start trying to swap ends on you, which isn't all that great.

The vast majority of your vehicle's stopping power is on your front disc brakes. When you apply the brakes, the weight transfer is too the front of the vehicle. This causes less traction for the rear tires. An agressive rear brake setup could easily cause the rear tires to lock and cause you issues.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 05:42 AM   #3
options
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Stu's right on about the front's doing most of the work. Don't expect to be able to lock up the rears with stock brakes and 33's, just wont happen. If you adjusted them as you said, that's about as good as it gets. You can tell if your rears are adjusted properly if your parking brake starts to grab before the handle reaches the halfway point or so. Don't try it while moving on a slick surface or you'll find yourself looking at the guy on the road behind you.

Don't forget that the front disc brakes are a lot more efficient than drums.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 08:34 AM   #4
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I had the same problem. On ice the fronts will lock, bvt can't get the rears to lock even with all my weight on the pedal. Replaced shoes, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, and prop valve. It's a little better, bvt still takes alot of pedal pressvre to get rears to lock, even on solid ice. I vnderstand that the fronts do most of the work, bvt it seems like on solid ice yov shovld be able to get the rears to lock. I'm swapping ovt the m35 rear for an 8.8 with discs in a covple of weeks, so I'm hoping that will help. (Sorry for the typing, the letter after T on my keyboard is broken!)
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Unread 01-21-2007, 08:44 AM   #5
bobbert350
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why do you want your rear breaks to lock up....they are drum breaks they usually lock up very easliy well more easily than disc breaks do....the design team must have made it hard to lock them up for a reason cauz tires stop better if they are rolling and breaking rather than skidding...if they come close to lock up then leave it i really wouldnt worrie about it cauz if they do lock up b4 the fronts your in a whole world of danger
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Unread 01-21-2007, 08:49 AM   #6
Fox Fader
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This is my first Jeep, but my 41st vehicle. Yes I agree the rear brakes on the Wrangler feel like they don't exist, but like said above, this is best for this set-up.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 09:01 AM   #7
SJT
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I don't necessarily want them to "Lock vp" bvt I do want them to work. It seems like when I step on the brakes, the fronts lock and the rears do nothing. I actvally pvt my front tires against a cvrb with the rears on ice, pvt it in gear so that the rear wheels were tvrning, and had to pvt all of my weight on the brake to get the wheels to stop tvrning with it jvst at idle. I took it to a "brake" and they replaced the master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and shoes and it still didn't seem right so I took it back, they then replaced the prop valve and re-bled everything and it still seems like the rear brakes aren't working like they shovld. Maybe this is "normal" for jeeps??
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Unread 01-21-2007, 09:34 AM   #8
claytonandson
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best thing is to do easy conversion to rear disc's. much better response....
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Unread 01-21-2007, 10:34 AM   #9
bobbert350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJT
I don't necessarily want them to "Lock vp" bvt I do want them to work. It seems like when I step on the brakes, the fronts lock and the rears do nothing. I actvally pvt my front tires against a cvrb with the rears on ice, pvt it in gear so that the rear wheels were tvrning, and had to pvt all of my weight on the brake to get the wheels to stop tvrning with it jvst at idle. I took it to a "brake" and they replaced the master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and shoes and it still didn't seem right so I took it back, they then replaced the prop valve and re-bled everything and it still seems like the rear brakes aren't working like they shovld. Maybe this is "normal" for jeeps??

they should work did you try seeing what they do with the drum off? thats not normal to have to do that....did you adjust the breaks proplerly b4 you put them back on
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Unread 01-21-2007, 02:09 PM   #10
mynyrd
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First of all thanks for the replies.

I understand that the front disc brakes do most of the work.

Yes I have the rears adjusted correctly the parking brake engages just below half and the rears will not spin.

The problem is that the rears are not seeming to work. the front will lock up/skid = no control while driving normlly. For example we have about an inch of slush in the alley the fronts will lock and skid while the rears are still pushing. (I have an auto trans) Which equals no control.

I have also had the problem of backing down a hill and the fronts skid and the rears keep rolling.

On my 66 CJ5 all four brakes would work equally the master cylinder was out of a Chev Monza

PS Nice page Stu there is alot of good info there.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 02:19 PM   #11
Jeepinty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynyrd
First of all thanks for the replies.

I understand that the front disc brakes do most of the work.

Yes I have the rears adjusted correctly the parking brake engages just below half and the rears will not spin.

The problem is that the rears are not seeming to work. the front will lock up/skid = no control while driving normlly. For example we have about an inch of slush in the alley the fronts will lock and skid while the rears are still pushing. (I have an auto trans) Which equals no control.

I have also had the problem of backing down a hill and the fronts skid and the rears keep rolling.

On my 66 CJ5 all four brakes would work equally the master cylinder was out of a Chev Monza

PS Nice page Stu there is alot of good info there.
Dude I fought that battle with my stupid dealership for 3 years. The rear brakes slowly lost their holding power after about 10,000 miles. I noticed it when I would back up and hit the brakes, the front tires would slide because the rears didn't do crap. Dealership changed the entire rear assemblies, booster, master cyclinder, etc. and nothing. Finally they came back and said, "Oh it's supposed to do that" , I said, "do what, not work?"

They proceded to tell me the same old crap about ABS, blah, blah, blah.....I reminded them it didn't have ABS and even though I know the front discs should hold better, the rears should at least help out. They just dicked around until the warranty on the brakes ran out and told me tough luck.

I know how you feel, I get the same crap everywhere from everyone. We know the fronts should work better, but we should be able to keep from sliding up and down hills because the back brakes won't work. I am going to try discs and a p.v. and see if it helps. It's scary to drive in the rain like this.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 05:08 PM   #12
SJT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepinty
Dude I fought that battle with my stupid dealership for 3 years. The rear brakes slowly lost their holding power after about 10,000 miles. I noticed it when I would back up and hit the brakes, the front tires would slide because the rears didn't do crap. Dealership changed the entire rear assemblies, booster, master cyclinder, etc. and nothing. Finally they came back and said, "Oh it's supposed to do that" , I said, "do what, not work?"

They proceded to tell me the same old crap about ABS, blah, blah, blah.....I reminded them it didn't have ABS and even though I know the front discs should hold better, the rears should at least help out. They just dicked around until the warranty on the brakes ran out and told me tough luck.

I know how you feel, I get the same crap everywhere from everyone. We know the fronts should work better, but we should be able to keep from sliding up and down hills because the back brakes won't work. I am going to try discs and a p.v. and see if it helps. It's scary to drive in the rain like this.
Sounds like exactly what I've been going through. Thankfully this is not my daily driver and I'm getting the 8.8 with discs put in in a couple of weeks. I'm in Denver where it just won't stop snowing and I won't drive this thing when the roads are slick.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 06:02 PM   #13
cueball
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same problem here. fronts lock and rears roll. i had the drums replaced (internals were good).. i just replaced the calipers and they werent the problem. but when i looked at the old ones, at times i couldnt get a playing card between the rotor and pad.

my mechanic thinks it could be deterioration of the brake hoses and that when the fluid returns to the master cylinder, the hose is actually restricting the flow, thus the lock up. i have braided lines on order. i will post up when i change them out.

i park on an incline in my driveway and when backing out, i can lock if i have to hit the brakes a little harder than normal. if it is wet out, i can lock them if i approach a stop sign or have to brake because of someone pulling out in front of me. very scary stuff..

btw.. 99tj 4.0 auto..
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Unread 01-21-2007, 06:11 PM   #14
bee guz
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I'm not sure if this will work for you guys, but corvettes have the same problems, and they sell a new spring for the valve the handels the brake balance, it just adds more pressuer on the rear shoes, all the corvette aftermarket shops like Mid america, Zip prouducts, and a bunch more, sell them...
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Unread 01-22-2007, 10:10 AM   #15
mynyrd
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Well I took it in to a shop that I have had good luck with and trust. I had the "Brake Tech" drive it with me in the jeep. He first suspected that the master cyl wasn't working. i told them i didn't justt want to throw parts at it.

Before i did the brakes on the rear iI tried pushing the pedal to make sure that fluid was going to the rear. The shoes actuated.

I looked at the proportioning valves from Summit Racing this morning that maybe my next option.

I will keep you posted on the out come.

Thanks for all the info and suggestions.
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