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Unread 10-04-2008, 07:26 PM   #76
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from experience, not books. A thicker wall tube will withstand an impact better that a thinner wall tube.


I'm done.

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Unread 10-04-2008, 08:32 PM   #77
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the 8.8 is stronger all around....but the dana 35 will hold up well if you drive right at least for a while. I've been running 35"X-terrains for quite a while on my dana 35 w/no breakage as of yet waiting for it to break because i have an 8.8 in the garage ready to go in. I haven't broke the 35 as of yet so there it sits waiting it's turn in the jeep...and let me tell you I get over alot of things dana 44'd locked tj's can't and I often times drive it like I stole it with the "inferior" dana 35. Just a bit of advice if you're dead set on the 8.8 fine but save yourself some coin and get the trac lock 8.8 with 4.10 gears that way you have a rear traction device and only have to regear the front axle...unless of course U are going with taller gearing...but in most cases 4.10 are good until you go hardcore all out. I screwed up and didn't do enough research so now I have two 8.8's in my garage...i'll use the other for spares.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 08:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by never monday View Post
I think your still missing real world impact strength of .250 Vs .188
Yes the 3.25x.188 tube will take more to bend. But how about impact resistance when you miss judge the height of the rock in the road at 30-40-50mph. This is where the thicker wall will shine.
Pat, you are really not being very logical here with this statement, really...
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Unread 10-04-2008, 08:58 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Volkman View Post
Pat, you are really not being very logical here with this statement, really...
Why? He's essentially correct. Thicker wall sections resist impacts and denting given the same diameter.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 10:02 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Why? He's essentially correct. Thicker wall sections resist impacts and denting given the same diameter.
because unless you are doing jeepspeed stuff, who worries about hitting a rock going 40-50mph...and who uses an 8.8 or 35 for jeepspeed anyway?

sides... the tubes aren't the same diameter anyway.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 10:09 PM   #81
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eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eighteight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight eight point eight


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Unread 10-04-2008, 10:20 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Volkman View Post
because unless you are doing jeepspeed stuff, who worries about hitting a rock going 40-50mph...and who uses an 8.8 or 35 for jeepspeed anyway?

sides... the tubes aren't the same diameter anyway.
I can tell you from experience that you don't have to be going 30 mph to ruin a housing or at least damage one. I hit my front at about 10-15 mph on a rock I misjudged the height of and it bent 3" .250 wall enough to ruin the ARB. It cocked the axle in the tube and took out the journal the carrier bearings press onto. Not one of my prouder moments, but it does happen.

I've also seen a S/A HP 44 hit a rock right at the bottom of the diff at about 10 MPH and stop the Jeep cold. Bent the long side tube and flexed it enough in the housing that it started leaking oil and had to be straightened and welded to stop the leak.

4000 lbs at 10 mph develops a lot of force when it's concentrated in one spot.

I've also seen another guy in front of me tag a rock sticking into the exit road from a trail at approximately 20 MPH and rip the trackbar mount right off the axle. Custom axle, custom mount, and it ripped the 1/4" steel like it was paper. No welds failed, just ripped metal.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 10:28 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
It cocked the axle in the tube
Hehe, he said "cocked"
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Unread 10-05-2008, 05:13 AM   #84
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Will
I've reported your posts for deletion. You add nothing of value to a great thread.
Please leave, unless you have good input on the topic.
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Unread 10-05-2008, 08:24 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
I can tell you from experience that you don't have to be going 30 mph to ruin a housing or at least damage one. I hit my front at about 10-15 mph on a rock I misjudged the height of and it bent 3" .250 wall enough to ruin the ARB. It cocked the axle in the tube and took out the journal the carrier bearings press onto. Not one of my prouder moments, but it does happen.

I've also seen a S/A HP 44 hit a rock right at the bottom of the diff at about 10 MPH and stop the Jeep cold. Bent the long side tube and flexed it enough in the housing that it started leaking oil and had to be straightened and welded to stop the leak.

4000 lbs at 10 mph develops a lot of force when it's concentrated in one spot.

I've also seen another guy in front of me tag a rock sticking into the exit road from a trail at approximately 20 MPH and rip the trackbar mount right off the axle. Custom axle, custom mount, and it ripped the 1/4" steel like it was paper. No welds failed, just ripped metal.

If you want to go fast off road, IFS is the way to go. You can break anything if you try hard enough, and you are very observant that 4000lbs going 10mph generates A LOT of force. Good ol' Force = mass * acceleration. Now take Force and apply it over an area of impact. The more area, the less damage done by said force. Thats where skid plates come in handy, deflect and spread the forces.

Jeeps aren't designed to go fast.
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Unread 10-12-2008, 02:12 AM   #86
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Naturally the 8.8 is a stronger axle, overall, when compared against the D35, even when in "Super" forms. The 8.8 was engineered to propel heavier vehicles, therefore, on average, the 8.8 would encounter more stress. The designers knew the loads it would endure and so they built the axle to hold up accordingly. This doesn't make it indestructible or the best solution for an "upgrade" though, it just makes it a RELATIVELY strong axle option.

An 8.8 swap as I see it:

Pro: heavier mass will work towards keeping the bottom side down
Con: heavier mass will require more engine effort to accelerate from a stop

Pro: larger components and pumpkin will distribute loads better
Con: larger pumkin will decrease ground clearance ... are the larger internals necessary for this application?

Pro: Disc brakes, overall stronger axle platform to start with
Con: Grinding and welding and associated fab work, yet offset center and narrower track, get any vibs?

Pro: Larger diameter tubes
Con: Thinner tube wall; lose tire grip and drop tube onto a rock, will it bend easier?

Pro: All signs are that it can hold up to moderate abuse
Con: All signs are that S35 axles can hold up to moderate abuse


To me it seems more like the trendy thing to do, rather than the practical thing. I for one love the disc brakes, but the narrower width and offset pumpkin turn me off regarding the 8.8 swap. For me to get a 4.10 axle around here, with low miles, it will cost 5-700 bucks. That is once I pay a core charge and trailer it home ...

Then all the other hardware I'd need to buy to swap the thing in, plus hoping I get the pinion angle just right (or whomever does the welding hopefully cares enough to do it right since it's not really their axle so they have little invested interest) ... Then after that is all said and done, it still has an offset pumpkin and narrower track (that would be easily noticeable for my eye).

All in all, I just don't see it as a necessary swap. Sure the D35 in stock form is known to break axles at the worst time, but I have seen nothing but positive feedback from folks that have built the 35 and wheeled with them.

If there is an anti-S35-annonymous group out there, then someone please direct me to them, because most that have done the upgrade and have given credible experience with their use are quite pleased.

Not everyone that owns a Jeep has 40" tires and is looking to crawl over the most abusive obstacles, so the need for maximum axle is not as common as the hype ... and if that is the case, you need a superior axle in all regards, then why would anyone humor the 8.8?
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Unread 10-12-2008, 08:57 AM   #87
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You're profile says your future upgrades are an 8.8...

sounds like you don't like them with your post above, what's the deal?
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Unread 10-12-2008, 09:06 AM   #88
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You're profile says your future upgrades are an 8.8...

sounds like you don't like them with your post above, what's the deal?

I didn't get that he didn't like or dislike either axle from his post. Did we read the same one?
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Unread 10-12-2008, 03:02 PM   #89
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yes, we read the same one.

he said...

"To me it seems more like the trendy thing to do, rather than the practical thing. I for one love the disc brakes, but the narrower width and offset pumpkin turn me off regarding the 8.8 swap."

and then says...

"Then all the other hardware I'd need to buy to swap the thing in, plus hoping I get the pinion angle just right (or whomever does the welding hopefully cares enough to do it right since it's not really their axle so they have little invested interest) ... Then after that is all said and done, it still has an offset pumpkin and narrower track (that would be easily noticeable for my eye)."

I just got a real negative underlying tone from his post, you know, that he didn't think it was worth it to swap in an 8.8. He says the swap's narrower width and the offset pumpkin turn him off. I got the impression that he doesn't want an 8.8 for himself, but his profile says different, under future upgrades. just looking for clarification on his personal opinion and future goals for his jeep.

I'm not picking on him, I just want to know what's the deal?
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Unread 10-12-2008, 04:00 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rowdy115 View Post
yes, we read the same one.

he said...

"To me it seems more like the trendy thing to do, rather than the practical thing. I for one love the disc brakes, but the narrower width and offset pumpkin turn me off regarding the 8.8 swap."

and then says...

"Then all the other hardware I'd need to buy to swap the thing in, plus hoping I get the pinion angle just right (or whomever does the welding hopefully cares enough to do it right since it's not really their axle so they have little invested interest) ... Then after that is all said and done, it still has an offset pumpkin and narrower track (that would be easily noticeable for my eye)."

I just got a real negative underlying tone from his post, you know, that he didn't think it was worth it to swap in an 8.8. He says the swap's narrower width and the offset pumpkin turn him off. I got the impression that he doesn't want an 8.8 for himself, but his profile says different, under future upgrades. just looking for clarification on his personal opinion and future goals for his jeep.

I'm not picking on him, I just want to know what's the deal?
Sounds pragmatic to me.
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