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Unread 06-14-2013, 09:17 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by church View Post
After reading this:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/ha...olved-1443989/
I'm checking that next..... to be continued

Just went out and checked and mine are in phase. Next is to check to see if its bent and or out of balance at the driveshaft shop that can spin it up to 10,000 rpm.

I'm also going to check to see if I have a bent front output shaft. A local 4x4 shop had a vibe at that was the culprit.

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Unread 06-14-2013, 09:39 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by church

Is it possible to have Savvy's control arms get in a bind?
So you are basically 3 linking the front by removing the passenger side upper control arm - right?
Did you add any thing to the driver upper to make it stronger?
Well not exactly! I was referring to the rear. I'm running both lowers, trac bar, and the ds upper control arm on the rear. Front is all still up there. I am planning a triangulated 4 link rear and same front with minus one upper. Not sure what that's called. The only reason I posted this up is I thought it was coincidence that blain posted a reference of resolution by doing basically what I did( get the uppers out of a bind) and it worked for me. More than anything I just wanted reasoning for why the uppers in a bind would cause that kind of vibe?
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Unread 06-14-2013, 02:17 PM   #138
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All of you guys that have had vibrations occur right after a re-gear should ask your installers if they used a whetstone on the back of the ring gear. When the bolt holes are drilled and tapped, a ridge is created. For whatever reason, the manufacturers don't knock this ridge down. I place the ring gear in the solvent tank, and use a large whetstone to get it close to perfectly flat. You'd be surprised at how imperfect they are.
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Unread 06-14-2013, 02:34 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryN View Post
All of you guys that have had vibrations occur right after a re-gear should ask your installers if they used a whetstone on the back of the ring gear. When the bolt holes are drilled and tapped, a ridge is created. For whatever reason, the manufacturers don't knock this ridge down. I place the ring gear in the solvent tank, and use a large whetstone to get it close to perfectly flat. You'd be surprised at how imperfect they are.
When I take the front shaft out the vibes are gone. All of the front end components are still turning. Therefore I dont think its a gear issue on mine.
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Unread 06-14-2013, 02:36 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryN View Post
All of you guys that have had vibrations occur right after a re-gear should ask your installers if they used a whetstone on the back of the ring gear. When the bolt holes are drilled and tapped, a ridge is created. For whatever reason, the manufacturers don't knock this ridge down. I place the ring gear in the solvent tank, and use a large whetstone to get it close to perfectly flat. You'd be surprised at how imperfect they are.
Interesting.
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Unread 06-14-2013, 02:54 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by church View Post
When I take the front shaft out the vibes are gone. All of the front end components are still turning. Therefore I dont think its a gear issue on mine.
Things are not always as they appear.

I had a bad whine coming from below the seats that I was convinced was my Atlas. I concluded that it was the culprit because with the rear driveshaft removed, there was no whine. Myself and one of Advance Adapters tech's tore it apart in a condo parking lot in Moab, and found nothing wrong.

I needed to re-gear to 5.38's anyway, and once that was done, no more whine, no vibrations, smooth as butter.
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Unread 06-14-2013, 03:10 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryN View Post
Things are not always as they appear.

I had a bad whine coming from below the seats that I was convinced was my Atlas. I concluded that it was the culprit because with the rear driveshaft removed, there was no whine. Myself and one of Advance Adapters tech's tore it apart in a condo parking lot in Moab, and found nothing wrong.

I needed to re-gear to 5.38's anyway, and once that was done, no more whine, no vibrations, smooth as butter.

Mine started when we added 5.13's
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Unread 09-29-2013, 04:47 PM   #143
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Recap:
Pulsating driveline vibes from 60mph and up, increases in frequency with increased speed.
Have tried 2° up to 2° down pinion angle, in 0.5° increments - no change whatsoever in vibes.
Have two rear driveshafts - a heavy weight shaft, which produces the worst vibes and a lighter weight shaft that produces less vibes. Both balanced multiple times & rebuilt by pro shops.
Remove rear driveshaft & drive on front = no vibes
Run the Jeep up to 75mph in 2wd with driveshaft removed = no vibes

Update to this:
Vibes are still prevalent, probably got over 30k miles on it like this.
Replaced the trans mount - no change.
Took Jeep to drivetrain specialist shop to have them diagnose & fix the vibration.
They were able to recreate the vibes on the lift...
Checked driveshaft balance, and that was fine. that's the 3rd place to verify driveshaft balance.
They ran it with a different pinion in the housing, with the driveshaft connected and the ring gear & carrier removed - still vibes.
Changed pinion yoke - still vibes
Checked runout of gears & yoke - well within spec.
While disassembled they checked the gear setup, preload and all bearings. All is good.

Bottom line, they couldn't find any reason for vibes...

So, no change...

Big props to Western Drivetrain - I would highly recommend them for anyone in the Denver area.
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Unread 09-29-2013, 05:02 PM   #144
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I can report mine was fixed by doing a SYE. I think that in my case my output was bent and the faster spinning driveshaft made it more obvious (i.e. after a re-gear).
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Unread 09-29-2013, 05:47 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04
Recap: Pulsating driveline vibes from 60mph and up, increases in frequency with increased speed. Have tried 2° up to 2° down pinion angle, in 0.5° increments - no change whatsoever in vibes. Have two rear driveshafts - a heavy weight shaft, which produces the worst vibes and a lighter weight shaft that produces less vibes. Both balanced multiple times & rebuilt by pro shops. Remove rear driveshaft & drive on front = no vibes Run the Jeep up to 75mph in 2wd with driveshaft removed = no vibes Update to this: Vibes are still prevalent, probably got over 30k miles on it like this. Replaced the trans mount - no change. Took Jeep to drivetrain specialist shop to have them diagnose & fix the vibration. They were able to recreate the vibes on the lift... Checked driveshaft balance, and that was fine. that's the 3rd place to verify driveshaft balance. They ran it with a different pinion in the housing, with the driveshaft connected and the ring gear & carrier removed - still vibes. Changed pinion yoke - still vibes Checked runout of gears & yoke - well within spec. While disassembled they checked the gear setup, preload and all bearings. All is good. Bottom line, they couldn't find any reason for vibes... So, no change... Big props to Western Drivetrain - I would highly recommend them for anyone in the Denver area.
What about the condition of your rear upper and lower control arm bushings (or flex joints)?

The first time I lifted my TJ, I did not loosen the control arm bolts for the rear upper and lower control arms and wait to retorque them until the full weight of the rig was back on the axle. As a result, the rubber bushings were preloaded/twisted/binding to the wrong ride height. Rubber bushings must be pinched between brackets in a neutral position, or they will fail prematurely.


What about play in the output yoke for the transfer case?

This has been a common source of vibes for many NP231 owners with an SYE.


What about when you do those speeds in 3rd gear (with the OD turned off)?

There is an opinion that I've read about a harmonic vibration between the 4.0L and the 0.69:1 4th gear in the 42RLE. I think there may be something to this because I've felt a pulsating harmonic vibration in every lifted or stock 03-06 TJ/LJ automatic I've ever driven.
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Unread 09-29-2013, 06:30 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
What about the condition of your rear upper and lower control arm bushings (or flex joints)?
Clevite/JJ in great shape. torqued properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
What about play in the output yoke for the transfer case?
perfect. torque spec checked and rechecked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
What about when you do those speeds in 3rd gear (with the OD turned off)?
vibes the same. no change

Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
There is an opinion that I've read about a harmonic vibration between the 4.0L and the 0.69:1 4th gear in the 42RLE. I think there may be something to this because I've felt a pulsating harmonic vibration in every lifted or stock 03-06 TJ/LJ automatic I've ever driven.
that's pretty much the conclusion i'm moving toward.
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Unread 09-29-2013, 07:53 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited04 View Post
Recap:
Pulsating driveline vibes from 60mph and up, increases in frequency with increased speed.
Have tried 2° up to 2° down pinion angle, in 0.5° increments - no change whatsoever in vibes.
Have two rear driveshafts - a heavy weight shaft, which produces the worst vibes and a lighter weight shaft that produces less vibes. Both balanced multiple times & rebuilt by pro shops.
Remove rear driveshaft & drive on front = no vibes
Run the Jeep up to 75mph in 2wd with driveshaft removed = no vibes

Update to this:
Vibes are still prevalent, probably got over 30k miles on it like this.
Replaced the trans mount - no change.
Took Jeep to drivetrain specialist shop to have them diagnose & fix the vibration.
They were able to recreate the vibes on the lift...
Checked driveshaft balance, and that was fine. that's the 3rd place to verify driveshaft balance.
They ran it with a different pinion in the housing, with the driveshaft connected and the ring gear & carrier removed - still vibes.
Changed pinion yoke - still vibes
Checked runout of gears & yoke - well within spec.
While disassembled they checked the gear setup, preload and all bearings. All is good.

Bottom line, they couldn't find any reason for vibes...

So, no change...

Big props to Western Drivetrain - I would highly recommend them for anyone in the Denver area.
You mention changing the vertical alignment, have you checked the horizontal as well? I had a pulsing vibration on my jeep with the pinion aligned with the shaft vertically and the axle square to the frame. By putting the rear axle out of square by 3/8" it put the pinion in line with the drive shaft in both planes and the vibration went away. I moved the front axle to be parallel with the rear and have noticed no handling issues. It only takes a few minutes and might be worth a shot.

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Unread 10-23-2014, 02:50 PM   #148
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Glad to see I'm not the only one...(not).

Same story: 4.88's (Nitro with "big pinion" JK rear set, regular TJ Rubicon front gearset), LJ, 42RLE, 35's, Rokmen TT, New rear driveshaft (triple checked for balance), three different front DS's (stock one, one the driveline shop built and a new one from a completely different mfg.), I have moved, changed and adjusted the control arms (Metal Cloak) until I can do it in my sleep. Tires have been rotated/balanced and even one replaced because it woudn't balance out. Lifted it and lowered it, squared it and pretty much everything else I can think of.

When I first "built" it, I was running Brown Dog MML, took that out, installed 1" spacer lift with stock MM's. Removed MML because I and the driveline shop thought it was affecting the output angle of the front yoke of the t-case. So right now I am sitting on Currie 3" springs in the front, and 3" springs in the rear, no MML, 1/2" BL (down from 1"), and I can't stop or fix the vibe.

For me, removing the front DS (at the axle) is the only thing that helps.

I have been piecing together my Reid Racing Knuckle conversion as that is the only solution that I can come up with. I can't/won't drive mine any distance with the front DS hooked up.

I was really hoping someone had found the solution. I searched before, but I never found this thread. This is my fifth lifted/wheeling rig in the last 20 years between jeeps and toyotas and I have never had this problem before or at least that I couldn't fix. It has been extremely frustrating to say the least.

Jack
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Unread 10-23-2014, 03:02 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by locrwln View Post
Glad to see I'm not the only one...(not).
....
It has been extremely frustrating to say the least.
I really think it's a harmonic of some sort resulting from the rotational mass, tummy tuck, motor mounts and trans mount.

I played with both poly and rubber MML's, and poly and rubber trans mounts. I recently changed my tummy tuck from a JeepMedic (similar to Rokmen) to the Savvy Off-road.

Remember the first part of this thread....with the JeepMedic skid: take front shaft out, no change. Take the rear shaft out, vibes go away.

Now, with the Savvy tummy tuck...the vibes are quite different. They present in a different tone, at different speeds and all around feel different. The interesting thing is now when I remove the front shaft, the vibes go away, and it's whisper quiet on the rear shaft only. I played with front pinion angle and chased the issue all over again...nothing changes it. Only conclusion I can come to is it's a resonance harmonic of some sort.

Luckily now, the vibes have diminished significantly with the new TT, or maybe I've just gotten used to them....either way my gears are still fine, all the shafts are perfectly balanced & aligned, nothing has blown up...and there's over 50k miles on it like this.
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Unread 10-23-2014, 03:07 PM   #150
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Jack,

Since the vibes are less without the front driveshaft, what about your front control arm bushings--particularly the front upper axle side bushings?
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