What are the benefits of lockout hubs on a Jeep TJ? I'll be running Dana 60s so it seems like it'll be easy to add them. But if there's no/little benefit I don't want the maintenance or cost of them.
Since I'm building a trail rig that I can drive to and from the trail with (road trip), I could see it being beneficial to be able to unlock the front or rears if a diff or axle shaft breaks and still be able to drive home without having to take it apart first.
I'll probably be running RCV shafts in the front too so that "front wheel drive" down highways is smoother if I ever need to drive home 12 hours before fixing.
How are they building them?
Are you getting TJ outers or heavier duty?
Or are you getting the front axle ball joint to ball joint and using your outers?
Are you sticking with the 5x4.5" bolt pattern?
Are you thinking of having them put hubs on when they build them, or are you thinking of adding them after the fact?
I have not ordered them yet. I'll probably order right after Christmas so that they arrive before mid-March. I'm going with F450 knuckles and selling my TJ 16" BBK (I'm a bit bummed about that, but I need to move on). Also going with a 5x5.5" pattern. I'd probably just have Currie take care of the hubs if they have what I want.
If I were building an axle and it worked out to not add substantial incremental cost then I would consider it. If it were adding a real cost (like it is to add after the fact to TJ axles) I would not be interested unless necessary to avoid vibes.
I'm yet to price this option out. Hopefully I won't be dealing with vibes with "only" 4" of lift and TT. Obviously it's going to be difficult to say exactly how much lift I'll be dealing with since everything in the suspension will be changed out, but roughly 4" of lift.
Like you noted, I need to keep my eye on price creep.
I'm running a set that I won't name but the last thing I worry is that they will break and that's on sticky 40's in JV. He won't have a spindle. They will be going into the F-450 Unit bearing. (not a traditional spindle)
Agreed on the Detroit. His t-case will most likely have 2 low rear, 2 low front, 4 high, and 2 high rear.
Benefit is any caster angle that works the best without regard for drive line angle.
You may be able to drive home with a broken axle. But, any trail you are on that you can break an axle on, will most likely be in a spot where you are going to need to fix it to get out anyway so likely a moot point.
The newer stuff for the F-450 unit bearings is very low maintenance. There is no downside except cost and they are sub 300 last I checked since all you are adding are the locking hub, some stuff to get it into the hub. They use the same stub shaft and the unit bearing is already splined.
Do not let Currie install them. You need to know how to do it, you need to know how to remove it. Make sure RCV knows what you are doing if you go this route.
Do not let Currie install them. You need to know how to do it, you need to know how to remove it. Make sure RCV knows what you are doing if you go this route.
You're talking about a whole different class of modification to go with lockouts in the rear.
And I have yet to see a rear lockout set up that doesn't cause severe complications with the brakes.
Unless you have a c-clip axle what's to stop you from removing the broken shaft section from the diff and driving with front wheel drive anyway?
How likely do you think you will be to break a D60 rear shaft?
You can't drive far with a broken axle in a semi-float housing unless you want to risk the end of the broken shaft flopping around in there and tearing the crap out of stuff. I've seen it take out the end of an ARB and ruin it, and you are depending on the housing end to handle all the side load and misaligned load when the tire tilts. Not a good way to do anything.
The only way I would do it after I've seen what happens is to have a bushing that you can pound into the axle tube and a grinder to cut the axle short so it doesn't tear stuff up. Also, don't forget that any tire tilt is also going to mess with your brakes.
I was thinking, having a Detroit in the front on slushy roads would probably be similar to having one desert racing. ...At least sort of. How does one behave desert racing?
Spec car I raced in EMC had Grizzly lockers. Aren't those Yukon's equivalent? Worked all right for me, although not as good as a selectable would have been. Yukon was a sponsor of the class though and not ARB. From Hammerking perspective perhaps also 1 less thing for potentially novice drivers to worry about. I also wonder whether spool might have been better, but that wouldn't have generated sponsorship I suppose. Not sure though how racing across desert where I had room for error (in most places) is the same as trying to stay on a slippery road with other vehicles around me.
Currie can do full float on the RJ60. I'm curious if there's any cons to doing so?
5.38 is the deepest available for the RJ60 rear (I did not ask about the fronts specifically). For the standard Dana LP60 they can go into the 7s but at the cost of over 3" of ground clearance. I struggle to see that trade off being worth it.
The Ford unit bearings Currie uses are the same from the F250/350/450. The only difference are some come fine thread and some come coarse thread from OEM. They take the same hub lock/drive flange as the older king pin and ball joint spindle axles. Easy to replace, within 5 minutes.
The only hub lock I would run is the Yukon. However, I went with drive flanges on my 60, because I had Warn hubs on my old 30 and not sure I unlocked them. Maybe due to a wasted front driveshaft a time or two.
If you are going to get a rear Rock Jock, make sure you get the 60 with a load bolt. Or bump up to a 70.
I would love a RJ70 rear, but I also don't have driveline issues. I run a Sterling rear, it has the same clearance as my front 60. I'm not sure I'll ever break it. I shortened it to 65" by using two short side shafts.
Your choice of HP will be your rear travel and driveline angle. On the race car, it has 21 inch rear travel, and we have to use a Hi9 rear dropout. Costly, but not as much as the GearWorx.
I noticed that Currie also has "super 60" gears. I wonder if those are installed in their RJ60s and the reason why they can't go further than a 5.38? https://www.currieenterprises.com/60-538RS
The RJ60VXR (emphasis on VXR) includes a load bolt.
You are going from a front 44 to possibly a RJ60 with 40 spline? That's a jump. There is no way you need to spend that sort of money. 35 spline will be fine.
edit: Blaine, it may be funny, but my experience is the Lockright holds up better in the front than the Detroit. If you do blow a u-joint you are almost guaranteed to replace the locker also. I've seen Lockrights hold up to blown u-joints multiple times. We do run a Grizzly in the front of the car with no problems yet (9inch), so I can't comment on those. We have wasted a Lockright when a friend's wife was hopping too hard in the sand with a 5.3 though. Cheap and easy to replace.
You are going from a front 44 to possibly a RJ60 with 40 spline? That's a jump. There is no way you need to spend that sort of money. 35 spline will be fine.
edit: Blaine, it may be funny, but my experience is the Lockright holds up better in the front than the Detroit. If you do blow a u-joint you are almost guaranteed to replace the locker also. I've seen Lockrights hold up to blown u-joints multiple times. We do run a Grizzly in the front of the car with no problems yet (9inch), so I can't comment on those. We have wasted a Lockright when a friend's wife was hopping too hard in the sand with a 5.3 though. Cheap and easy to replace.
I guess it's technically a front HP44 to a RJ60, but it's more like a front 30 to a RJ60 since I never actually drove the HP44. While it is a jump and I don't have the breakage to prove myself that I need bigger axles, I want to go places I can't without. Plus, I really enjoy building and learning.
I received quotes for the VXR housings and Super 60 gears, it's not too much more for the improved design.
I'm still undecided on brakes for the rear, although I'm leaning toward semifloat with explorer brakes as there doesn't seem to be great options for fullfloat brakes for my build. Although, these Wilwood brakes from Currie seem like they may be an option: https://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-0005SDR1 But I need to get more info on them before deciding on anything.
Has anyone had experience in how quickly Currie can get shafts made and sent out in the more common custom sizes like 35 spline semifloat for a 64"WMS rear? I'm pretty sure this is the specs of their crate Dana 60s, I'll call them on Monday to see if they have these already made up and ready to ship. If so, I may not even carry a spare. Or could always have a spare set at home somebody could overnight to me if ever needed.
It came down to 3 things, being unable to position the brakes at the front of the axle, the rear brakes having too much stopping force and creating poor bias, or the brakes being of poor quality. I did start to flesh out one option but it was starting to get round about and stupidly expensive.
Yeah, EMWest was the option with Wilwood calipers. But it seemed to really just be creating more problems than it'd be fixing for my application. I felt like I was exchanging axle availability for brakes availability and spending an extra $1-2k.
The second option was to use JK rear brakes, but those are on the wrong side of the axle and my understanding is that they can't be flipped? I didn't look into if the JK brakes are even any good.
The last option was big truck brakes. While they could be positioned out of the way, they were going to cause too much rear braking bias.
I talked to Blaine about this a few weeks ago and besides a bracket he made for one float build he also suggested Explorer brakes.
@pcoplin , Thanks for your advice on much of this. I've pretty much decided to go with the front RJ60VXR, and rear with flipped JK brakes. The rear is a spindle design (https://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-0013JK5L). The front I'm going with RCV shafts, F450 unit bearings, and Yukon manual hubs. I know the rear is still a HP design, but my tire size hopefully won't make that an issue. However to mitigate those concerns the VXR comes with a load bolt, I'm upgrading to a super 60 ring gear, and full float rear. What do you guys think?
The biggest complication vs semifloat with Explorer brakes is that the JK parking brake will require some finesse.
Talking to Currie they said that the F450 unit bearings and JK spindle design do not require shafts to be installed for preload. So this also addresses some of my broken shaft/gear concerns.
How much more is the super 60 ring gear vs the standard set? I would think that the pinion shaft might be the next weak point after the load bolt and 35 spline shafts even with the standard ring and pinion. I would try out the standard stuff and load bolt first if there is a big price difference.
If you break the ring gear you could try the super 60 set, if you break the pinion next step would be something with a 35 spline pinion, like some hp d70 gear sets, but not sure if they fit in your 60 housing with the jantz kit or not.
If think you'll probably be fine with the hp 60 and load bolt on 35s/37s
How much more is the super 60 ring gear vs the standard set? I would think that the pinion shaft might be the next weak point after the load bolt and 35 spline shafts even with the standard ring and pinion. I would try out the standard stuff and load bolt first if there is a big price difference.
If you break the ring gear you could try the super 60 set, if you break the pinion next step would be something with a 35 spline pinion, like some hp d70 gear sets, but not sure if they fit in your 60 housing with the jantz kit or not.
If think you'll probably be fine with the hp 60 and load bolt on 35s/37s
Roughly a $150 price difference for the Super 60, I'm not sure but the pinion may be upgraded too? https://www.currieenterprises.com/60-538RS The main benefit that I'm going for here is that the ring is less likely to deflect being thicker. Local labor (within a few hundred miles) for replacing a R&P is considerably more than the cost to upgrade now.
I am going with a 1310 yoke front and rear so I think that may be the weak link?
As far as spare parts go for the driveline, I'm thinking I'll carry only a unit bearing and 1310 ujoint. Even the ujoint I could technically drive without but it's small and light enough to pack.
Thanks guys for helping me work through my questions and expanding my knowledge. There was a lot to consider. I ordered my axles and should receive them in 4-5 weeks (maybe longer dependent on the shafts).
Hey guys. So I am test installing the manual hubs today. I have a few questions for you guys who know more about it than I do.
1) Is the spacer ring ID supposed to be larger than the splines OD?
2) Is the stub shaft only supposed to engage with half of the splines on the manual hub? If I push on the manual hub it does push back further but obviously the spring pushes it right back out again.
Attached pictures are of empty unit bearing, spacer ring on stub shaft, installed manual hub sans cover.
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